New Car Feedback

Broccoli Iglesias

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Nonsense. It always makes sense to let some other sucker pay the new car premium. You'll save AT LEAST 20%, usually a lot more. Not to mention your excise tax and insurance will be lower too. Plus, if you save up and pay most or all with cash you won't pay any interest either.
"Our data shows that cars can lose more than 10 percent of their value during the first month after you drive off the lot. The amount your car is worth will just keep falling, too. According to current depreciation rates, the value of a new vehicle can drop by more than 20 percent after the first 12 months of ownership."
20 percent the first year, and that's conservative.
Or you can buy brand New with 0% interest. Put that money you saved in a separate account and make money with it while you pay for the depreciating asset.

And you will not save at least 20%. That is bs. You cant generalize like that because it depends on brand and model.

Some brands and models, if you go for the entry package and the truck people dont want, sure, you can save that or more. On a Tacoma? No way. Kinda like Jeep Wranglers. The difference between used with 30K miles and new is like $2K (if you are lucky).
 
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Varmint

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Or you can buy brand New with 0% interest. Put that money you saved in a separate account and make money with it while you pay for the depreciating asset.

And you will not save at least 20%. That is bs. You cant generalize like that because it depends on brand and model.

Some brands and models, if you go for the entry package and the truck people dont want, sure, you can save that or more. On a Tacoma? No way. Kinda like Jeep Wranglers. The difference between used with 30K miles and new is like $2K (if you are lucky).
Great point nobody mentioned yet. New cars often have 0% but with used cars it's tough to get a good rate.

Many people lease for the same reason - new car leases are heavily subsidized by some companies (BMW) so the payments can be low. (not recommending leasing but that's a benefit).
 

Wickedcoolname

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Great point nobody mentioned yet. New cars often have 0% but with used cars it's tough to get a good rate.

Many people lease for the same reason - new car leases are heavily subsidized by some companies (BMW) so the payments can be low. (not recommending leasing but that's a benefit).
Pay cash. If you have to borrow money to buy a car then you can't afford the car.
 

Wickedcoolname

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So you bought a new silverado model XYZ for 36k and 3 years later bought the same silverado model XYZ , for 21k not to bad especially with the low miles. Are they identical models and options?
Wtf are you talking about? I bought it used. I've never purchased a new vehicle in my life and I never will.
I you want to take out a loan for something you can't afford that's guaranteed to lose about 20% of its value almost immediately go right ahead. I prefer to buy used, pay cash, avoid debt, and let someone else eat the depreciation.
 
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My wife is ready to upgrade from the minivan she's been driving for 9 years. Has anyone gone to the Expedition sized SUV and regretted it?
She won't put a ton of miles on it but she is in/out constantly.
I think the explorer size with captain chairs in the back could work but would be compromising a bit on interior space compared to the van.
I'd love to hear how others with more than 2 kids have tried to fit them, their friends, and their crap in normal sized vehicles.
 

M1911

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If the loan rate is under like 2.5% you'll make more leaving the cash in a 2% money market than paying cash.
There aren’t that many cheap loans around. Often when the manufacturer is offering a low loan rate, you have the option of taking a rebate instead. Also, you typically must have a very high credit rating to qualify for the very low loans, and it is pretty hard to get a decent return in a safe investment with today’s rates.

We pay cash for a new car and then keep it for 10 years.
 

M1911

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My wife is ready to upgrade from the minivan she's been driving for 9 years. Has anyone gone to the Expedition sized SUV and regretted it?
She won't put a ton of miles on it but she is in/out constantly.
I think the explorer size with captain chairs in the back could work but would be compromising a bit on interior space compared to the van.
I'd love to hear how others with more than 2 kids have tried to fit them, their friends, and their crap in normal sized vehicles.
A minivan will always have a more room than a similar size body-on-frame SUV. Unless you need to tow or go off-road, you’re probably better off in a minivan.

I drive a large SUV, but I take it off-road. Fuel economy is horrific in my Land Cruiser, but I can afford it. In addition to fuel economy, you also have to deal with driving and parking a much larger vehicle. A large body-on-frame SUV simply does not drive like a car. Driving it on narrow roads and parking in crowded parking garages can be a pain.
 
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A minivan will always have a more room than a similar size body-on-frame SUV. Unless you need to tow or go off-road, you’re probably better off in a minivan.

I drive a large SUV, but I take it off-road. Fuel economy is horrific in my Land Cruiser, but I can afford it. In addition to fuel economy, you also have to deal with driving and parking a much larger vehicle. A large body-on-frame SUV simply does not drive like a car. Driving it on narrow roads and parking in crowded parking garages can be a pain.
No question the van is a better choice for most families. That said, she is done with it. The kids can climb in themselves now and I think she is tired of driving a van and not being able to get up certain hills in the snow.
Narrow roads and parking garages shouldn't be too much of an issue for her around here. The unibody SUVs do a pretty good job maximizing space but I just wonder if anyone has had both explorer and expedition sized vehicles with kids and how it worked for them.
I've never said "I wish my car was smaller" but I've never owned a bus sized SUV either.
I'm ok with whatever she chooses cost wise, but would like to make the right decision. If everyone thinks having the bigger one is a pain, I want to tell her that before she brings one home.
 

M1911

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I don’t have kids so I can’t say how it works for families. My Land Cruiser is smaller than an Expedition, but probably heavier (about 6,000 lbs). My Land Cruiser also has a relatively short wheelbase and small turning radius for a large SUV — 112” and 19.4‘. In contrast, the Expedition‘s specs are 122” and 20.5’.

I commute into Kendall Square and get less than 13 mpg in my normal city driving. About 18 mpg on the highway. I have to be choosy about parking spaces in the garage at work, because the Land Cruiser is wide and it really fills up a narrow parking space. There have been times when someone parked close enough that I had to get on the passenger side and crawl over center console.

There is nothing sporty about driving a big SUV. It doesn’t corner or brake like a car. You need to slow down, leave space, and be patient.

Getting up hills in snow is as much about tires as it is about all-wheel-drive.

From a safety perspective, large SUVs have mass and crumple zones, which are good. However, they are far more likely to roll in an accident, and rollovers are far more likely to result in serious injuries or death. You are also less likely to be able to maneuver your way out of an accident in a big, heavy SUV — they just don’t change directions quickly.
 

garandman

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My wife is ready to upgrade from the minivan she's been driving for 9 years. Has anyone gone to the Expedition sized SUV and regretted it?

She won't put a ton of miles on it but she is in/out constantly.
I think the explorer size with captain chairs in the back could work but would be compromising a bit on interior space compared to the van.

I'd love to hear how others with more than 2 kids have tried to fit them, their friends, and their crap in normal sized vehicles.
We bought a 2016 Tahoe Max Tow because my wife wanted a particular sailboat and our Odyssey couldn’t tow it.

I won’t say it’s been a disaster but there’s good reason why Crossovers have replaced most body-on-frame SUV’s. Space utilization is poor. MPG is poor, and it rides and handles like a pickup truck (it’s built on the Silverado chassis): if you miss the 1980’s you’ll love it. 3rd seat is comfortable for kids only. Getting in-and-out is a climb even though the shortest person in our family is 5’8. It’s not even top-of-the-line and new price was $20,000 mor than the Odyssey (we bought both used private sale). I hate driving the thing.

Tahoe/Yukon is just about the best selling SUV on the market so there are some pluses. While clunky to drive, they are quite durable. The styling is clean and understated. Build quality is good. We bought it to tow and it tows great. Repair costs are modest, $6-800 per year (AC condenser and transmission cooling lines).

Not sure there is an SUV on the market with as usable a 3rd row seat as a minivan. New Expedition has IRS so it should be better than Tahoe/Suburban. But personally I find the styling quite awkward.
 

M1911

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The 3rd row seat in the Expedition is significantly better than the Tahoekonburbanalislade, due to the independent rear suspension. Also, it has Ford’s newest infotainment system, which is getting praise.

But it still isn’t as space efficient as a unibody minivan, due to the inherent nature of a body-on-frame vehicle.
 
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My GTI was maintained by the book. That’s another VW myth - that people who have problems with them didn’t maintain them.
Most of the dealers don't follow the manual in the glove box nor what VW suggests. They follow their money making internal only book. That is why most VWs have issues.

Witness marks, painters tape, and pictures are your friends.
 

M1911

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Most of the dealers don't follow the manual in the glove box nor what VW suggests. They follow their money making internal only book. That is why most VWs have issues.
The rear shock top mounts on my GTI didn’t need to be replaced three times because they were maintained improperly— there is no regular maintenance required for them in the first 3 years.

The turn signal stalk on my GTI didn’t fail because it was maintained improperly— there is no regular maintenance requi for the turn signal stalk.

The starter motor in my GTI didn’t fail because it was maintained improperly.

The thermostat on my GTI didn’t fail because it was maintained improperly.

The coil pack on my GTI didn’t crack because it was maintained improperly.

The spark plugs and wires on my GTI didn’t need to be replaced because they were maintained improperly.

The AC condenser didn’t fail because it was maintained improperly.

There is a myth amongst VW enthusiasts that VWs are reliable when “properly maintained” and that the problems that people experience from VWs is because they didn’t maintain them properly. That simply isn’t true. The litany of problems I experienced had nothing to do with maintenance.

VW enthusiasts like their cars. I get that. I liked my GTI when it worked. But too many enthusiasts invent these myths to shift the blame for VW problems from VW onto the owners or the dealers.
 
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Pay cash. If you have to borrow money to buy a car then you can't afford the car.
imagine what the traffic would be like if you could only pay for a car in cash. No loans what so ever. so many less cars on the road.

This is not the case though. Getting that cash to buy can be tough if you need a car to get to your job.
I dont know to many folks who can just muster up 30-50k cash for a new car unless they where smart enough to put $400 a month away since the first car their parents gave them.
 
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The rear shock top mounts on my GTI didn’t need to be replaced three times because they were maintained improperly— there is no regular maintenance required for them in the first 3 years.

The turn signal stalk on my GTI didn’t fail because it was maintained improperly— there is no regular maintenance requi for the turn signal stalk.

The starter motor in my GTI didn’t fail because it was maintained improperly.

The thermostat on my GTI didn’t fail because it was maintained improperly.

The coil pack on my GTI didn’t crack because it was maintained improperly.

The spark plugs and wires on my GTI didn’t need to be replaced because they were maintained improperly.

The AC condenser didn’t fail because it was maintained improperly.

There is a myth amongst VW enthusiasts that VWs are reliable when “properly maintained” and that the problems that people experience from VWs is because they didn’t maintain them properly. That simply isn’t true. The litany of problems I experienced had nothing to do with maintenance.

VW enthusiasts like their cars. I get that. I liked my GTI when it worked. But too many enthusiasts invent these myths to shift the blame for VW problems from VW onto the owners or the dealers.
properly maintained, like keeping up on oil changes and tire pressures..... try this. Next time you hear someone saying their car is a pos and a lemon look at their tires and oil change sticker , pop the hood and check the oil. its the start to a POS.
Now some cars/trucks are just pos and when hit 50k they just go to shit especially with the salt and season changes.
a few examples off the top of my head
Starters
Chevy/GM by far the most replaced starter I do on low mile cars.
wheel bearings- more on domestic cars than imports under 50k miles

water pumps---GM

remember folks your not really paying for the car your paying to have it put together. The car is about as good as the warranty. Whats the life expectancy from the manufacture on their products?
10 yrs 150k miles ?

in the end you buy what you like and the price you feel is worth it.

its all mass produced junk.... the aftermarket parts have also gotten worse in the past 5-8 years.. Good luck folks
 

Wickedcoolname

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If the loan rate is under like 2.5% you'll make more leaving the cash in a 2% money market than paying cash.
Yeah, I keep hearing that argument but I don't buy it. I run from debt like it's trying to kill me. I paid off my mortgage, have zero credit card debt, zero car payments and retired at 49. Staying out of debt allowed me to concentrate on saving.
If someone has a better system I'm all ears.
 

M1911

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properly maintained, like keeping up on oil changes and tire pressures..... try this. Next t
I did.

I checked the tire pressures and adjusted regularly. I had the oil changed on schedule.

Tire pressure and oil changes disentangle affect the rear shock top mounts, the starter motor, the turn signal stalk, the thermostat, the ac condenser, the coil pack, etc.

That car was at the dealership 11 times in the first twelve months. That wasn’t caused by deferred maintenance.

Yes, there are people who ignore their cars. I’m not one of them. I have them maintained according to the schedule in the owner’s manual.
 
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Yeah, I keep hearing that argument but I don't buy it. I run from debt like it's trying to kill me. I paid off my mortgage, have zero credit card debt, zero car payments and retired at 49. Staying out of debt allowed me to concentrate on saving.
If someone has a better system I'm all ears.
the problem is not everyone can get to a point to pay off everything and retire at 49----like to know the details there.
Debt does suck and im close to mortgage free and CC only have a balance if its a 0% interest deal.

I was really hoping to be in better financial shape at my age but the wife and our pay checks really have not kept up with the cost increases over the years.
 

Varmint

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Yeah, I keep hearing that argument but I don't buy it. I run from debt like it's trying to kill me. I paid off my mortgage, have zero credit card debt, zero car payments and retired at 49. Staying out of debt allowed me to concentrate on saving.
If someone has a better system I'm all ears.
Either you have discipline or you don't. If not, it doesn't matter what system you use.

Debt is a tool, it can be used very wisely to great benefit. Most successful businesspeople used debt to build their business.
 
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Varmint

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properly maintained, like keeping up on oil changes and tire pressures..... try this. Next time you hear someone saying their car is a pos and a lemon look at their tires and oil change sticker , pop the hood and check the oil. its the start to a POS.
Now some cars/trucks are just pos and when hit 50k they just go to shit especially with the salt and season changes.
a few examples off the top of my head
Starters
Chevy/GM by far the most replaced starter I do on low mile cars.
wheel bearings- more on domestic cars than imports under 50k miles

water pumps---GM

remember folks your not really paying for the car your paying to have it put together. The car is about as good as the warranty. Whats the life expectancy from the manufacture on their products?
10 yrs 150k miles ?

in the end you buy what you like and the price you feel is worth it.

its all mass produced junk.... the aftermarket parts have also gotten worse in the past 5-8 years.. Good luck folks
I'm guessing you haven't owned many German cars? How do you maintain the plastic fittings inside an aluminum radiator? Or the plastic impeller inside the water pump? Yeah you can replace them before they break, but that's not the same as just owning a brand with good reliability.
 

Varmint

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the problem is not everyone can get to a point to pay off everything and retire at 49----like to know the details there.
Debt does suck and im close to mortgage free and CC only have a balance if its a 0% interest deal.

I was really hoping to be in better financial shape at my age but the wife and our pay checks really have not kept up with the cost increases over the years.
And what's the urgency to pay off a 3.75% mortgage that's tax deductible, when S&P index funds have returned 13% a year for 10 years?

I'd rather buy gold or gold mining stocks with my cash than sink it into a car. Let the government's inflation and artificial low rates work for you.
 

TheGreekFreak

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@M1911 curious what gen GTI you had. I've heard horror stories about the MK4s (as cool at that gen R32 was), the MK5 seemed a bit better but still had it's issues, but my impression was MK6 and on have been ok. Chance you just had a lemon? 11 visits in the first year is ridiculous.

I've said it before, love mine and still wouldn't praise VW for its reliability.....but I do think the general "VWs are pieces of shit" narrative is a bit overplayed.

Also, any reason you didn't just throw on an upgraded aftermarket strut if the OEM ones were known to be problematic? Not being a VW apologist, your situation sounds awful, just curious.
 

M1911

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And what's the urgency to pay off a 3.75% mortgage that's tax deductible, when S&P index funds have returned 13% a year for 10 years?
Index funds can also go down. Paying off your debt, in contrast, is a guaranteed return.

Now that my mortgage is paid off and we are 100% debt free, I have a lot of peace of mind. If I get laid off tomorrow, it’s not a big deal.
 

Varmint

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I had a 2000 GTI GLX. It was a MKIV. As you said, the MKIV had terrible reliability.
A buddy traded in his '94 GTI with like 120k miles cause water would leak in the back windows and puddle on the floor. His new mkIV . . . leaked water from the back windows to puddle on the floor, lol. Once they fixed that, it was pretty reliable though.

Index funds can also go down. Paying off your debt, in contrast, is a guaranteed return.

Now that my mortgage is paid off and we are 100% debt free, I have a lot of peace of mind. If I get laid off tomorrow, it’s not a big deal.
I agree except when talking about mortgages. I do not like the idea of having money tied up in a house, that's the definition of illiquid. You can sell the index funds whenever you want - whereas if you need the equity that's in your house, you gotta pay some bank to get it back out. If you have money to pay off the house, buy a rental property - if that's your thing - it's not ours, don't want to be a landlord.
 

TheGreekFreak

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I had a 2000 GTI GLX. It was a MKIV. As you said, the MKIV had terrible reliability.
Ya, the MK4 is known to be a massive piece of garbage lol but not sure its fair to use that as justification for VW being equally shitty 20 years later. Most people I hear complain about VW don't have much experience with any from the last 10 years.

Hell, 20 years ago, bmw and chevy were still making great reliable cars [rofl] oh how things have changed.....

Disclaimer: VW is not toyota! They are not the most reliable brand.....but they don't pop out MK4s anymore either.
 

TheGreekFreak

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I agree except when talking about mortgages. I do not like the idea of having money tied up in a house, that's the definition of illiquid. You can sell the index funds whenever you want - whereas if you need the equity that's in your house, you gotta pay some bank to get it back out. If you have money to pay off the house, buy a rental property - if that's your thing - it's not ours, don't want to be a landlord.
I agree. I respect ANYONE who is debt free in a paid off house, its truly a huge accomplishment....but I also feel people can overrate striving to being debt free over using debt to build assets that will, in the future, provide a revenue stream that could make for a very comfortable retirement.

For instance, buying in early on a good real estate deal with money you don't have is much better than waiting to save up that money in cash where, in the future, that same real estate deal could cost 25% more. How many people bitch about seeing the MA real estate bubble coming yet never bought in to some of these MA suburbs when they could have easily financed several down payments? The fear of debt can also hurt you.

I don't know much but the wealthiest people I've encountered all bought in to as many good real estate deals as they could over the years. Tough to do that when you're saving up to pay for your house, car, etc. all in cash.
 
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