My KaBoomed AR15, Update May 2nd

J

J_Smith

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A little over a week ago I was firing my Bushmaster and it Kaboomed. Fault has been attributed to Maine Cartridge Company many times over however the company blaims the gun (go figure). See below.

(Originally posted on another website a week ago)

I went shooting with a friend up in central New Hampshire. I was shooting my SPR which is built on all Bushmaster parts save the White Oaks Armament barrel and accessories. The gun has already had about 300 rounds through - mostly M855 and some Match ammunition. I'm firing away from a cross-legged sitting position with my nonfiring hand underneath the Daniel Defense free float when I hear an unusual crack. Not a light pop like you'd expect from a squib round. I noticed there was a LOT more gas from the burnt powder/carbon then normal. I look at my AR15 and first notice that the bolt release has been blown off. I look down and see that the magazine is blown out and has expanded scattering rounds all over the ground. I check myself to make sure I am okay and all I have is this black shit on my wrist and jacket.

I turn the gun over. The bolt carrier is cracked all the way through. the upper reciever has a large crack near the chamber/ejection port area. The ejection port cover has been ripped off almost. Parts of the extractor for the gun are lying on the ground - no idea how they got there. The Colt 20rnd magazine turned into a frag grenade since I have piece of aluminum shrapnel lying around where the Magazine decided to crack, disassemble itself and go flying. Rounds of Maine Cartridge Company M855/SS109 type ammunition lie scattered about with the not-so-properly seated SS109 projectiles fallen out of the cases. In the past I had had some issues with their ammunition to being properly seated. Yesterday was a chance for me to burn up what I felt was less then par ammunition. And so I did - with the cost being a KaBoom which I never expected.

Upon further inspection last night. ( I had to use a hammer and screwdriver just to get the bolt carrier to go back and I am STILL trying to get it out of the upper reciever) I noticed the casing remains in the bore while the head of the casing is still in the bolt. The Bolt basically blew up - only half of its left and I'm not sure where the rest of it may have gone. The lower reciever is bulging slightly - but just slightly enough it MAY still be serviceable - the mag well is slightly off where the magazine decided to bloat up then take a dump out the bottom.

Round still lodged in bore - apparetly when the road expanded, crack and pushed gas into the rear of the reciever the round was only halfway down the barrel. More to follow

Sorry the pics suck - yes, I tried macro on my digital - isnt helping.

BEFORE:
000_0499.jpg


AFTER
000_0524.jpg


Where the Magazine exploded/imploded
000_0516.jpg


Nice Purty Mangled Upper
000_0540.jpg


Brass casing *most of it* visible in bore. I need a better pic

000_0545.jpg


Base of casing in what is left of the bolt

000_0552.jpg


You may be asking yourself - does that picture have a CHUNK of the bolt carrier in it? Why yes, that was part of the shrapnel that didn't kill me. And the bent extractor which came through the mag well and "quality ammunition lie next to it on a sheet of paper.
000_0546.jpg


I will try to get ahold of Maine Cartridge Company tomorrow. But I expect to be blow off. Not sure what legal recourse if any I can take on them for remanufactured ammunition of theirs that I purchased 6-8 years ago. I will try to post better quality pictures later today - or if I can physically remove the bolt carrier from the gun - its still so stuck its laughing at my hammer.

I should be pissed - I'm just happy I'm not dead because of some idiot assembling ammunition

UPDATE - Sunday....

. Well I just spoke to the owner of MCC. He claims he had two gunsmiths look at the rifle last week while it was at his shop. And that supposedly the bolt wasn't fully seated forward and somehow the firing pin struck the primer without it being properly chambered. Sounds like BS to me because to my knowledge - AR's don't fire out of battery. Also claimed they checked headspacing and for "high pressure". No idea how one checks for "high pressure".

He said the bolt couldnt have been in battery because the projectile never left the bore. He also went on to mention that he ships thousands of rounds of ammunition to Bushmaster for testing their rifles and has never had a complaint. Maybe I should see if Bushmaster agrees. I seem to remember complaints on quality control from other individuals. Hmmm.

I don't buy it - but I lack paperwork (proving I purchased the ammunition back in 1999/2000) and funds (not hiring a lawyer for 300-500 worth of damage).

Rifle is supposed to be shipped back on Monday. I'm out 300-500 dollars. Money is relative - I'm alive. Buy Maine Cartridge Company ammunition and you could end up in the same boat.
 
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Helpful hint: Resize your pics. Knock the size down a bit, it'll make this alot easier to read.
I'm really interested in reading about this but I don't have the patience to keep scrolling over.
I was happy to see that at least you weren't hurt!
Thanks!
 
I meant to post this sooner over here but have been waiting for outcome from the company. The whole "Wasn't Me!!" is getting really old with crappy Ammunition mfg. disavowing their lack of quality control. My first KaBoom and hopefully my last.

I learned from this - use quality ammunition or personal reloads you trust. Saving a dollar today may be losing 300 tomorrow. Remanufactured ammo MAY not be dependable and Manufacturers won't always stand by their product or respond to a mishap with integrity.

Secondly, don't get to attached to your "toys". At least I own more then one rifle. It sucks - but I'm still here. Easier to replace a gun. Funny thing - that rifle had more dollars tied up in accessories - and they're fine lol. Go figure.
 
I saw a post somewhere recently showing the same type of damadge. The culprit turned out to be a cartridge loaded with pistol powder. I don't know if that helps.
 
Damn! Glad that you are okay though. Will Bushmaster take a look at this to try to help determine what h appened?
 
glad you're ok. I wound up breaking the bolt on an AR last year, but it didn't bang up the ejection port or carrier like it looks happened on yours.

Kinda hard to tell because the pics are kinda wonky.
 
This sucks big time. I’m glad you are ok. I saw this on arfcom and was going to post something, but I don’t have an approved e-mail so I couldn’t get an account. I’m glad to hear you are ok and that you posted it here. I’ve seen one Kb in an AR. I’m by no means an expert, but I’m wondering if the brass that they used was all trimmed shorter than 1.760. The Kb that I saw was from a long case neck that was not trimmed. When they tripped the bolt catch, the bolt flew forward and it jammed it into the throat and pinched the bullet, and it didn’t want to let go. Well it let go alright, just not the correct place.

This was a fairly experienced bolt rifle reloader and didn’t realize the importance of trimming. If this had been in an M-700 they never would have been able to close the bolt and would have chucked the round. The force of the AR carrier and buffer spring made it fit.

Were the cases reloaded or was it virgin brass? I know that if I shoot ball out of my rifle, the cases come out very long and need to be trimmed before I feel comfortable to reload it. Could it possibly be that in the remanufacturing process that one of them got through that wasn’t trimmed? I have also heard of a case where a .222 or other similar cartridge got mixed in with .223 ammo. It caused a KB.

I’d pull a couple of bullets and measure the cases. Also what does the case look like. Is the head still attached or did the whole thing rupture?

tbftgoGgi,

Brian
 
J_Smith said:
I learned from this - use quality ammunition or personal reloads you trust. Saving a dollar today may be losing 300 tomorrow. Remanufactured ammo MAY not be dependable and Manufacturers won't always stand by their product or respond to a mishap with integrity.
Click to expand...


Maine Cartridge Company; I didn't reallize those clowns were still in business. A few years back a buddy bought a case of their .223 ammo. After having to inspect ALL of it to cull out cases w/major dents and high primers, I knew I would never buy their stuff.
To tell you the truth, I've never been all that impressed with the ASSEMBLERS over at Bushmaster, either.

When I go to the range, I see piles of that steel-cased Wolf ammo. How anybody can do that to their gun, I have no idea.

Thank God nobody was injured.
 
First, I WON'T bad mouth MCC, since they are our competition. You form your own judgement of them.

That being said, let's talk a few facts. AR's are designed so that they do NOT fire out of battery. The bolt MUST rotate for the firing pin to go forward. They can NOT deny that.

Now, what could've happened?

A Slamfire could've. It wouldn't require the firing pin to detonate the primer under certain conditions. That's why I only use certain primers in military semi-auto's.

An overload could've. Only problem is that AR-15's are pretty strong, so, it would have to be pretty hot. I'm not sure a case full of 4895 would create enough pressure to do it. I've personally fired some awfully hot stuff out of an AR clone.Bushmaster lower and bolt, Brand? barrel and upper. Definitely pressure in the 60K range and up. No, I won't load them for the public like that, either.

A case failure definitely could've. That would be a case head blow out. I had that happen to my M14. Of course, it fired out of battery as well, so what caused what.

Excessive headspace? Probably wouldn't do it. As I said, AR's are tough. a 221 Fireball would likely NOT KB in one.
 
I'm convinced it was failure of the case. Essentially, I believe Maine Cartridge Company used LC and WCC cartridge casings which should have been destroyed rather then reloaded again. I IM'd Bushmaster Firearms today and am curious to any feedback they may provide. I know their parts were not at fault here. I've noticed tons of quality control problems with my MCC ammunition in the past but never thought it was so bad to cause damage to my rifle. I don't have the energy, funds, or necessary paperwork for a heated legal battle but I am going to try and post this same subject on several LEO boards and contact all of MCC's distrubors. This matter isn't over. Their refusal to accept wrongdoing means that instead of reimbursing me 300-500 for parts - they can lose thousands of $$ in customer sales. As if I CARE at this point.
 
J_Smith said:
used LC and WCC cartridge casings which should have been destroyed rather then reloaded again.
Click to expand...

Why?

I've had excellent luck with Lake City and Western Cartridge Company (Winchester) military brass. There's nothing essentially wrong with it. In fact, the Quality Control for military brass is way over what QC is for civilian brass.

I'm not saying the ammo was good, I just don't buy brass failure. Now, if they used brass that had been used many times, you might get a head seperation, but even that won't normally cause a KB. The only reason I say "normally", is it is theoretically possible, though highly unlikely, given the strength of an AR.

If this was an AR-10 we were discussing, I'd buy it, but not an AR-15.
 
Nickle,

I think the LC and WCC stuff was probably at the end of their life cycles. Been reloaded too many times.
 
Nickle said:
Probably, that would give Head Sep's, but, as I said, shouldn't KB an AR.
Click to expand...

I had previously found ammunition where the bullet wasn't properly seated in the casing. They were remanufacturing SS109/M855 bullets on 5.56mm brass. Having seen previous problems with their ammunition - I wonder if a bullet was chambered and forced into the casing creating unsafe chamber pressure.

Their quality control on ammunition was sloppy at best. It could have been using really old beat up brass or the round not being properly seated in my opinion. The owner of MCC claims the bolt wasn't fully forward when the round fired. I call bullshit on his "expert" advice.
 
If he had a clue on how an AR works, he wouldn't have said that, unless he's trying to blow smoke up your ass. An AR can't fire, unless the bolt turns. Don't trust my word, check it out for yourself. You'll see. The only other guns that I know also won't fire unless in battery are an AK and a G3/HK 91 family (also the HK 93).

I've met the guys from MCC. I know what I think, but, as I said before, I won't bad mouth the competition. It's bad for business.

FWIW, we don't make MILSPEC 5.56 for resale. To make decent stuff, and mark it up enough to make a modest profit, makes it too expensive to sell. That being said, I make it for myself, and have had few, if any problems.
 
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derek said:
Nickle,

I think the LC and WCC stuff was probably at the end of their life cycles. Been reloaded too many times.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with Nickle, this should not cause a catostrophic failure. Head sep will normally occur if a round has been loaded a few times with very high pressure. Neck splits usually appear as the first sign of the brass getting worn out. I use LC for all my short range and WCC for my 600 yard stuff.

There has to be more to this.
 
Tony, they will Head Sep, if used repeated times, and sized with a small base sizer, like I use. But, there's warning signs on the cases.

Is there a reason for using LC for short range and WCC for further, other than easy identification? Is the WCC better, in your view? I'm curious. I use both, and like both.
 
Nickle said:
Tony, they will Head Sep, if used repeated times, and sized with a small base sizer, like I use. But, there's warning signs on the cases.

Is there a reason for using LC for short range and WCC for further, other than easy identification? Is the WCC better, in your view? I'm curious. I use both, and like both.
Click to expand...


Mainly because I have a lot more LC brass and I shoot more short range (200-300 yards) than I do medium range (600). My LC is mixed years and I don't seperate it by year as I don't believe it makes that much difference at short range. So, yes, it's mainly for identification and the amount of brass I have for each.

I don't know that one type brass is better than the other unless you get into Lapua and I ain't spending the green for those.
 
Just looking at the bolt you can see that the lugs where not engaged all the way. (due to the tearing on them. ) it may well have slam fired if the primer was not seated all the way.

I had an issue years ago with an ammunition supplier like this. nothing happened till I said lawyer, and I got my 870 replaced. They jerked me around for almost a year. I was acting on good faith and sent in the weapon and ammo and they figured they had all the evidence. little did they know I had pictures of EVERYTHING including the other shells that where moulded defectively. (cold mould.) once I told them that They got moving.
they will never admit wrong doing. If I had of gotten the lawyers involded I would have owned the company. it was that obvoius a problem.

Good luck.
 
Send it all to Bushmaster. They might just look into what happened for you to see if there was any failure on their part. If you could send them some ammo with the gun as well I am sure that would help them out. Some companies like to see their failed product from the field just to see if they can somehow improve on it.
I had a 500,000 c.p. cordless flashlight that ignited in my hand while I was using it. I sent it back to the company with a letter and my phone #. Sure enough to my surprise they called me to see how I was using it, weather, how long it took before it went up in smoke, etc.. I talked to the guy for about 20 min. and a week later I got a package in the mail with 2 new lights, charger and a spare housing in-case I broke one.
 

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