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Multiple victims in Oxford High School shooting, Oakland County Sheriff confirms
- Thread starter mikeyp
- Start date
ridleyman
NES Member
I have no problem not executing kids under 18 who commit horrible crimes. However, I do have a problem with NOT executing them once they turn 18. In other words, when a killer turns 18, instead of 18 candles on their cake, they will be strapped in to a special chair, the lights will flicker for a few moments in the prison, and peace will once again blanket the community.
slugworth
NES Member
I’m guessing daddy’s screwed as well…As he should be. Doesn’t appear he locked up the gun ever and bought it for him
www.lindaikejisblog.com
Photos show Oxford High School shooter posing with gun before sharing countdown to the school shooting
The 15-year-old shooter who opened fire on his Michigan high school was identified by authorities as Ethan Crumbley at a press conference on Wednesday, Dec. 1. Ethan shot an
www.lindaikejisblog.com
I’m guessing daddy’s screwed as well…As he should be. Doesn’t appear he locked up the gun ever and bought it for him
Photos show Oxford High School shooter posing with gun before sharing countdown to the school shooting
The 15-year-old shooter who opened fire on his Michigan high school was identified by authorities as Ethan Crumbley at a press conference on Wednesday, Dec. 1. Ethan shot an
Sig and a glock in those pictures, so daddy obviously gave his kid access for at least a few pistols. The parents had contact with the school administrators and an in person meeting the morning of the shooting. For them to have an in person meeting about his behavior, it wasn’t a minor issue and his parents shouldn’t have allowed him access to weapons. It doesn’t sound like this kid snapped, this seems like it was building for some time and the warning signs should have been clear. Still need more information but the parents were extremely reckless at a minimum, I’m not sure it’s criminal yet.
eboos
NES Member
Isn't it more likely the insurance company will deny coverage?
Buck F
NES Member
They will deny coverage I imagine, but if a jury says the parents are liable then they're liable and the insurance company will have to pay. If it's a smaller Dollar limit, they'll probably just pay it and be done with it rather than also incurring the expense/publicity of fighting the legal battle. As I mentioned earlier, no one is going to get rich off suing the parents unless the parents are very wealthy.
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The way my daughter’s high school handled it is they informed the local sheriff’s office of the posted comments that were vaguely threatening. The sheriff posted a few deputies to stake out the suspect and the school. Suspected party arrived on school grounds, opened his trunk. As soon as they could see the guns in the trunk they closed on him.
Had it been a bunch of hot air, some man hours would have been wasted for a few days, but nobody’s rights would have been violated. As it turned out the effort was well worth it.
The way the sheriff saw it there was no higher priority so there was no question of dedicating resources to it.
Parents were also given a heads up with an honest assessment of the threat level and particulars without naming any names or pointing any fingers. This gave parents the opportunity to keep their kids home.
I thought it was all handled quite well. Nobody went all jackbooted/pre-crime on the kid but were in position to intervene before anyone got hurt.
By the time the parents pay for the legal defense and the civil cases that follow, they won't have a dime to buy ammo.
They are the poster children for people who shouldn't possess them. They KNEW their kid had issues and were told about them more than once. Were they blind to what he was doing on social media?
Four are dead because of their stupidity. I have zero sympathy for what they will be facing.
Our schools would do whatever they could to hide any criminal events in the schools. Drug dealing was commonplace and yet the denied it even existed. It finally came down to a Superintendent getting terminated when he tried to cover up drug use by a student.
The Parkland shooting was permitted to happen because the school using an Obama era law stopped the criminal charges against Cruz from being filed dropping them to a disciplinary issue. He then had a clear record to buy the firearm. Yet the SRO, teachers and students were telling the administration that the kid was nuts and was going to be trouble. Even the famous FBI ignored the warnings. Too busy finding citizens taking photos at the Capitol.
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Yeah. There are plenty of places where parents would object to ANY added LE presence in the schools, especially if it’s based on stuff found (and done) outside school hours.
They’d be clogging the principal’s phone line the whole next day. Seen it happen.
They’d be clogging the principal’s phone line the whole next day. Seen it happen.
AHM
NES Member
And that's the kind of brush-back pitch that might just convince the yout
to quite publishing revenge fantasies on social media.
Meh; they'd have been a lot smarter getting a search warrant
and tearing the kid's house apart. No one's rights would have been violated then, either.
I mean, can I get a show of hands?
How many NESers' reactions to a tip about an avowed active shooter threat
would include EMailing hundreds of parents about it,
secure in knowledge that none of the kids who'd get quizzed at home
would ever put two and two together and tell the shooter that they were on to him?
Is that really what passes for a cunning plan nowadays?
It's nice that they had the suspect's house staked out,
but at the very least they should have stopped him
at the end of the block - not on school grounds,
after he opened the trunk containing all the guns.
It was not a definitive threat. Nothing they could get a warrant on or they would have.
Also, North Carolina. Nothing illegal about having guns in your home or car. Hell, you can drive around with a gun on your dash with no license whatsoever. Legal to have a gun in your car on school grounds too, may have to have a permit to carry for that though. Don’t recall the particulars.
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AHM
NES Member
Small price to pay for not dead kids.
We were fortunate in the fact that the principal at her school Did. Not. Give. A f***. about getting a bunch of angry phone calls, etc.
The man had integrity and was a straight shooter. Freshman family orientation, the guy stands up in the middle of the basketball court, introduces himself, then tells us all that his number one priority is to give our kids back to us at the end of each day in the same shape they arrived in. Parents loved him, teachers loved him, students loved him. He could weather making an unpopular decision if he truly thought it was in our kids’ best interest. He didn’t push politics or interfere in things that should be left to families either. Just made sure each kid got a fair shake at an education and a positive school experience.
I know... We were extremely fortunate.
From your “hell no” link:
”k) The provisions of this section shall not apply to a person who has a concealed handgun permit that is valid under Article 54B of this Chapter, or who is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to that Article, if any of the following conditions are met:
(1) The person has a handgun in a closed compartment or container within the person's locked vehicle or in a locked container securely affixed to the person's vehicle and only unlocks the vehicle to enter or exit the vehicle while the firearm remains in the closed compartment at all times and immediately locks the vehicle following the entrance or exit.
(2) The person has a handgun concealed on the person and the person remains in the locked vehicle and only unlocks the vehicle to allow the entrance or exit of another person.
(3) The person is within a locked vehicle and removes the handgun from concealment only for the amount of time reasonably necessary to do either of the following:
a. Move the handgun from concealment on the person to a closed compartment or container within the vehicle.
b. Move the handgun from within a closed compartment or container within the vehicle to concealment on the person.”
Permit or not, they’d have still needed an articulable reason to search his trunk. I‘m confident that if they had one, they would have previous to him opening it.
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Well, sure. Until it happens for the fifth time in a year. After that, the principal starts looking like the boy who cried wolf, the Chief gets on his ass, the parents start saying mean things on Facebook, and acrimony grows within the community. Bearing in mind, meanwhile, that the vast majority of these things are red herrings requiring no response at all.
All I'm saying is it's not always as simple as it seems. Everything is obvious in hindsight.
SpaceCritter
NES Member
I cannot help but notice how ALL of this is an argument against plunging children - especially those in the angsty, formative teen years - into that Lord of the Flies cauldron called the "public schools."
Yeah-yeah.
Kid made some posts refering to Parkland. Sympathizing with the shooter. Like I said, nothing definitive in the way of a threat, but a bunch of the kids found it concerning enough, because they knew the kid, to bring it up with their teachers. Hell, I think one of them might have been his sister. Then some graffiti showed up in one of the school bathrooms, just a date and time, that some kids thought was written by him. No proof tying the graffiti to him. They did talk with the kid and his parents before hand. Family was a f***ing wreck. Kid had gotten emancipated before turning 18 and lived on his own or with a friend or some crap like that. He knew they were on to him. Still showed up ready to go.
Everyone had a bad enough feeling about it but it was just that, bad feelings. Until he was on the school grounds he had not broken any laws or made any threats. Even the graffiti wasn’t technically a threat. What do you do? Start holding people because they wrote something that hurts your feelings or gave you a bad feeling? Toss their shit and arrest them for some bs they’ll walk out the door in 12 hours because they weren’t technically breaking any laws? They waited until he crossed a line and then immediately arrested him. They made the effort to make sure they were there when he did.
It was a shitty position for the cops to be in. I think they handled it well considering what they had to go on.
We got a phone call, not an email, by the way.
AHM
NES Member
Now that is one cool gun law.
Fill your car trunk full of rifles and drive to skool. Class I felony.
Add a handgun to a passenger compartment handgun safe. Oops, rifles get a pass.
Sign me up.
(Not that some 18-yo has an NC handgun permit).
(FTFY).
Ask him if he minds if you'd search the car. Usual result: Hummina³.
Or unless he had Loud Pipes or Illegal Tint that necessitated towing the car and inventorying its contents.
Or unless they had an Explosives Dog on hand and it winked at the trunk.
CatSnoutSoup
NES Member
Talked to my mother in Michigan on Thursday who said that the Oakland County prosecutor is likely to try and charge the parents with something, if for no other reason than to placate the local media which is stoking an anti-gun-owner uproar.
www.clickondetroit.com
Numerous schools were closed Thursday due to copycat threats and the trend is continuing as entire districts will be closed Friday.
www.abc12.com
Prosecutor expects charging decision soon on parents of suspect in Oxford High School shooting
The Oakland County prosecutor expects to decide soon whether or not charges will be issued against the parents of the Oxford High School shooting suspect.
www.clickondetroit.com
Numerous schools were closed Thursday due to copycat threats and the trend is continuing as entire districts will be closed Friday.
All 21 Genesee Intermediate School District member districts close Friday due to threats
GENESEE COUNTY, Mich. (WJRT) - All public school districts in Genesee County will be closed on Friday due to rampant threats circulating on social media.
MaverickNH
NES Member
What This Week's Mass Shooting Can Teach Us About School Safety
The incident in Michigan, the deadliest school shooting in three years, will add to a wrenching school safety debate.
www.edweek.org
Education Week has obvious biases on the topic.
"Around the country, teachers, district leaders, and students have been frightened by what appears to be an increase in violence roughly paralleling the return of most students to in-person learning this school year."
Huh - violence at school requires people to be at school, eh?
"Media reports indicate that a law enforcement officer worked in Oxford High School and disarmed the shooter…Recent research on SROs indicates that their presence does mitigate some kinds of violence but also can lead to unintended consequences—including higher rates of discipline and referral into the juvenile justice system that fall disproportionately on Black children. To date there is also little firm evidence to suggest that they prevent mass shootings in school, so the role of the school-based officer in Oxford is likely to attract much attention in coming days."
The kid might have been psychotic but he wasn’t seeking a suicide-by-cop situation. Will we find out the Oxford shooter planned to be as far away from the SRO as possible? A few unarmed teachers were nearby…one got shot.
Surveys find moderate support for armed SROs in schools - lowest among teachers [no surprise there] moderate among parents and highest among students. Same with de-funding police - polls show people want THEIR local police to be well funded. When it’s your own ass on the line, woke ideology goes out the window.
So, 57 school shooting deaths in 4yr out of 48 million K-12 students (~15/yr) is a 0.03/100000 rate. Schools are still the safest place for children to be during the day. The student fatality rate getting to/from schools is 128/yr - almost 9-fold higher than school shooting fatalities.
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slugworth
NES Member
Parents charged!
So apparently he had drawings on his desk of shooting people in the heads ect. So bring him down and ask him about it and nothing happened. Never checked his backpack nothing. They let him go back to class…
So apparently he had drawings on his desk of shooting people in the heads ect. So bring him down and ask him about it and nothing happened. Never checked his backpack nothing. They let him go back to class…
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Oh OK, can we now charge the DA that let the black supremacist domestic terrorist who mowed down a couple dozen people in Wisconsin out on a thousand dollar bond despite being a life long violent criminal?
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PaulR
NES Member
I have not followed this closely yet.
However from the usual conspiracy theory point of view, what an odd set of facts, no?
The parents MUST have known prior that the kid is having school issues.
The dad JUST bought the gun.
The gun immediately falls into the kids hands.
The kid goes on a shooting spree right away with it.
I'd really like to know what the parents knew about their kids troubles and when they knew it.
Parents are usually quite in tune with their kids psychological issues, if any.
I find it hard to believe that they knew how psycho the kid was, and still went ahead and bought a gun and immediately left it around for the boy to get ahold of.
Just weird.
![[tinfoil]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/tinfoilhatsmile.gif "Tinfoil Hat [tinfoil]")
However from the usual conspiracy theory point of view, what an odd set of facts, no?
The parents MUST have known prior that the kid is having school issues.
The dad JUST bought the gun.
The gun immediately falls into the kids hands.
The kid goes on a shooting spree right away with it.
I'd really like to know what the parents knew about their kids troubles and when they knew it.
Parents are usually quite in tune with their kids psychological issues, if any.
I find it hard to believe that they knew how psycho the kid was, and still went ahead and bought a gun and immediately left it around for the boy to get ahold of.
Just weird.
inexcusable and unexplainable why gun was just laying around with no lock or was not in the safe, under such circumstances.
i can understand why he went with the kid into the store, but to keep gun in the open with a teen kid in the house is stupid.
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pinefd
NES Member
What gets me is the fact that there were a number of kids who stayed home from school that day, with their parents' blessing, because they had a strong suspicion that something serious might happen. Didn't any of these kids or parents report these concerns to the school and/or police...especially with the whole "see something, say something" campaign? I'm guessing there are a lot more people than just the shooter's parents who could have done more to help prevent this tragedy.
Frank
Frank
AHM
NES Member
Paraphrasing my best friend's favorite lines from Shakespeare.
I can charge the school shooter's parents!
-----
Why so can I, or so can any man.
But if you charge them,
can you arrest them?
US Marshals join Oakland Co. fugitive team in search for Oxford suspect's parents; rewards offered
The search comes hours after James and Jennifer Crumbley were charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter in the deaths of four students.
www.detroitnews.com
Hat tip: Howie Carr Show
namedpipes
NES Member
It's STUPID, yes, especially if they had any inkling that their kids was bent in the head.
It doesn't appear to be illegal in Michigan, though.
Prosecutor would have to prove the parents knew the kid was special, got the gun anyway AND left it accessible to them.
I'm honestly not sure how many parents really ARE in tune with their little darlings. They could conceivably have thought he was rock solid. Think Dudley on Harry Pottar...
If they didn't know, then they're guilty of criminal stupidity, not manslaughter.
IANAL and have no idea what I'm talking about, so who knows?
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