Multiple deaths reported in Alabama shooting rampage

Oh goodie. CNN is reporting that is was a "M16", meaning an AR. This is what the dems have been waiting for! Wait for it...I give them two days to capitalize on it.

The thing is that with the economy is a shambles and folks getting laid off left, right and center, there is going to be a lot of these. The Dems know it, and they will just sit back and let the sheep come to THEM to "do something".

We are screwed. Get the PVC and cosmoline, boys!
 
andrew said:
Oh goodie. CNN is reporting that is was a "M16", meaning an AR. This is what the dems have been waiting for! Wait for it...I give them two days to capitalize on it.

The thing is that with the economy is a shambles and folks getting laid off left, right and center, there is going to be a lot of these. The Dems know it, and they will just sit back and let the sheep come to THEM to "do something".

We are screwed. Get the PVC and cosmoline, boys!
Click to expand...

Wonder how many bullets were in the clip?
 
What a tragedy. Prayers go out to the family.

CNN appears to have changed the report from M16 to "semiautomatic weapon".
 
In_God_We_Trust said:
Correct. What I am surprised about is the fact that no one had an LTC during that entire rampage and returned fire. Kind of shocked that no one was in the path of that a-hole and returned fire... [thinking]
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True that, if someone was carrying they could have taken him out. Better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it....
 
In_God_We_Trust said:
Correct. What I am surprised about is the fact that no one had an LTC during that entire rampage and returned fire. Kind of shocked that no one was in the path of that a-hole and returned fire... [thinking]
Click to expand...

No kidding! Having lived in AL, I know that a LOT of people carry down there. I was shocked that he wasn't stopped sooner.
 
andrew said:
Oh goodie. CNN is reporting that is was a "M16", meaning an AR. This is what the dems have been waiting for! Wait for it...I give them two days to capitalize on it.

The thing is that with the economy is a shambles and folks getting laid off left, right and center, there is going to be a lot of these. The Dems know it, and they will just sit back and let the sheep come to THEM to "do something".

We are screwed. Get the PVC and cosmoline, boys!
Click to expand...

This morning on GMA the local PD said it was an AK47 or an M16. He wasn't sure which, yet he was wounded in the incident (I'm assuming he was hit as he said his vest came into play). They also said the gun was full auto. Oh boy....
 
Jim said:
If he was using a rifle and you had a pistol or revolver, it would not be so easy to stop him especially if he was wearing body armor. See this example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_courthouse_shooting

And see this video for how it ended (by a cop using an AR-15 on the shooter):

http://www.yourdailymedia.com/media/1150716136/Gun_Fight_Outside_The_Court_House
Click to expand...

Actually, this CCW holder Wilson did have a very positive result on the outcome. He caused the active shooter to go off script, which appears to have stopped him from having any more victims (deaths or injuries) although it is not completely clear from the tape if he had inflicted any more injuries after that altercation. But definitely no more deaths. The cop with the AR 15 looks like he got a little lucky in how the active shooter ducked down. If things had gone a little differently, that could have taken a lot longer to bring him down.

Personally, I think this is good evidence that although not 100% effective, the presence of an armed civilian had a significant positive effect on the outcome. Up until that point, the shooter was in complete control of the situation. Afterwards, he was on the run.
 
K-DUB said:
No kidding! Having lived in AL, I know that a LOT of people carry down there. I was shocked that he wasn't stopped sooner.
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Unfortunately the numbers still aren't high enough on average, even in the
south. While the guns per capita number is probably very high, the
amount of people carrying is still probably relatively low.

-Mike
 
Jim said:
I'm not arguing that Wilson didn't have a positive effect, I believe he probably saved the life of the man's son.

However, if you look at it from the point of view of winning or losing, it's still very difficult to conceive of winning in a situation where you are that outgunned if you define winning as killing the perp and living yourself.

Wilson was clearly a hero but it's a shame he didn't have a rifle at hand to use on this guy. It might have helped make a difference in taking him down. A handgun seems to be pretty problematic in that kind of situation.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but a handgun is still WAY better than nothing. You can't carry a rifle around all the time when walking on the street, which IIRC, is basically what Mark Wilson was doing when this happened. Even if he had an AR ready to go in the trunk of his car, and it was nearby, he'd still have to get to the rifle, and load it.

I think the point here is generally, "Do Something". Mark Wilson probably thought "oh shit this guy has a rifle, but I still have to DO SOMETHING about this wackjob" in the fleeting seconds before he shot at this guy.

Further, the amount of BGs encountered in the US that are wearing body armor is barely a blip on the radar screen. Even among the wackjob shooters, very few of them wore body armor.

-Mike
 
Jim said:
I believe Wilson was home wasn't he? I don't think he was out on the street.
Click to expand...

You're right, he did live nearby. It's unclear to me, though, where he was exactly when the shooting started.

-Mike
 
Jim said:
I'm not arguing that Wilson didn't have a positive effect, I believe he probably saved the life of the man's son.

However, if you look at it from the point of view of winning or losing, it's still very difficult to conceive of winning in a situation where you are that outgunned if you define winning as killing the perp and living yourself.

Wilson was clearly a hero but it's a shame he didn't have a rifle at hand to use on this guy. It might have helped make a difference in taking him down. A handgun seems to be pretty problematic in that kind of situation.
Click to expand...

From my reading of that wiki, it seems as though a few head shots in follow up would have made the difference for wilson. Even with a rifle at close range, the round would have lost so much energy in the vest (assuming no rifle plate) that it would have effectively been like he was shooting a .22 or .22 magnum/5.7. Hits to the CNS are the only effective means of stopping someone who is outfitted with body armor. The whole effectiveness of the 5.56 round relies on the amount of energy it imparts. Cut that energy down and you lose whatever effectiveness it has.

I won't argue from a distance and accuracy perspective, the rifle is far better. It is, hands down. I guess my point is that I would rather have Mr. Wilson there than not and this shooting should be seen as an example of the positive CCW can be.
 

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