MSP Instructor Survey

[MassPete]

Mostly based on Suicide prevention. It took less than 10 minutes to complete. I always incorporate Suicide prevention in my classes at the end of Mass Gun Laws, so this is nothing new. Looks like Mass might incorporate PowerPoint slides based on the Utah class. I had a co-worker jump off the George Washington bridge. We were friends and I never saw this coming. I take this shit seriously.

 

[Granite Guardsman]

It's important on so many levels. We all at least know somebody affected by it, and it has always been an uphill battle to address the issue without labeling people as crazy, so there's that. One of the other big reasons I feel we as instructors and firearms enthusiasts should be all about suicide prevention is that when someone uses a firearm for the act it increases the stigma around guns and gives more talking points to those looking to strip us of our rights.

 

[yanici]

I honestly don't believe it should be part of the gun safety class. If someone decides to become suicidal later on, the counseling during the class will be in the rear view mirror. There are many ways to commit suicide and to dwell on guns is unnecessary.

 

[Amputee Marksman]

This is a touchy subject. I can see both sides of the argument however this should not be part of a firearm safety class.

 

[Buck F]

Guns don't cause suicides, there are plenty of countries that virtually ban civilian ownership that have higher suicide rates than we do. A gun safety class is about gun safety, guns don't jump out of the safe and suicide people. Suicide prevention has no place in a gun safety class. That doesn't mean that suicide is not an important topic, it's just not a gun safety related topic.

 

[Pafanasiev]

I wasn’t comfortable with some choices for questions

As in, should suicide prevention be mentioned? Maybe. As people mentioned above, some feel close to it, some don’t.

But when we start talking about taking the guns away, that is something that is don’t want to be a statistic “x% of MSP certified instructors agree with and support the red flag laws”

 

[Buck F]

It's important on so many levels. We all at least know somebody affected by it, and it has always been an uphill battle to address the issue without labeling people as crazy, so there's that. One of the other big reasons I feel we as instructors and firearms enthusiasts should be all about suicide prevention is that when someone uses a firearm for the act it increases the stigma around guns and gives more talking points to those looking to strip us of our rights.

Including suicide prevention to the gun safety curriculum legitimizes the notion that guns cause suicides. They don't.

 

[Buck F]

I wasn’t comfortable with some choices for questions

As in, should suicide prevention be mentioned? Maybe. As people mentioned above, some feel close to it, some don’t.

But when we start talking about taking the guns away, that is something that is don’t want to be a statistic “x% of MSP certified instructors agree with and support the red flag laws”

Yea, some of the questions were a little slanted IMO

 

[MassPete]

Yea, some of the questions were a little slanted IMO

Agreed.. I look at it as, Our MSP Certified Instructors are covering all the bases including Suicide. A good talking point for our side.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I honestly don't believe it should be part of the gun safety class. If someone decides to become suicidal later on, the counseling during the class will be in the rear view mirror. There are many ways to commit suicide and to dwell on guns is unnecessary.

I agree. Also, I don't feel qualified to be a mental health counselor. . . I don't have the training/expertise in that area. Handing out info on the suicide hotline would be fine, however.

Guns don't cause suicides, there are plenty of countries that virtually ban civilian ownership that have higher suicide rates than we do. A gun safety class is about gun safety, guns don't jump out of the safe and suicide people. Suicide prevention has no place in a gun safety class. That doesn't mean that suicide is not an important topic, it's just not a gun safety related topic.

I agree.

I wasn’t comfortable with some choices for questions

As in, should suicide prevention be mentioned? Maybe. As people mentioned above, some feel close to it, some don’t.

But when we start talking about taking the guns away, that is something that is don’t want to be a statistic “x% of MSP certified instructors agree with and support the red flag laws”

Yes, I hated those questions about taking people's guns away, advocating to turn them into the police (never to be seen again), etc. Kristen should address that to the chiefs, they love confiscating personal property . . . not our job to advocate for that!

Including suicide prevention to the gun safety curriculum legitimizes the notion that guns cause suicides. They don't.

I also agree, and that is obviously the intent of the survey . . . it is all politically motivated.

 

[Buck F]

Agreed.. I look at it as, Our MSP Certified Instructors are covering all the bases including Suicide. A good talking point for our side.

Again, you're basically admitting that guns cause suicides. It's an awful talking point for our side IMO. Stick to what gun instructors know, gun safety.

<edit> I'm not criticizing your feelings towards suicides or the importance of prevention. I had three people I know commit suicide in a two year period, all three by hanging. But I'm not qualified to educate people on suicide prevention nor do I think it has any place in a gun safety class.

 

[Amputee Marksman]

I agree. Also, I don't feel qualified to be a mental health counselor. . . I don't have the training/expertise in that area. Handing out info on the suicide hotline would be fine, however.

This. I'm not going to go into details but suffice to say there was a point in time in my life when suicide seemed like a viable option. I was lucky in that an unplanned interaction with the justice system in MA resulted in me seeking help. Not a short process, not an easy process, more like a journey. My point is most people are not trained to know how to handle the situation especially with pretty much total strangers. Pass out the pamphlets and move on.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Is there a segment of the required classroom hours for your drivers lic about suicide???? Because for your average mASSholian, it's easier to drive into a bridge abutment than to obtain a gun and shoot yourself in the head.

 

[upcountry]

Guns are not a question in suicides, especially in a class like that.
There are pills, cars, bridges, buildings (with the help of gravity) for that.
he gun doesn't make the decision about how, the person does.

 

[moojpg2]

Suicide prevention should not have anything to do with a firearms class. Owning a gun legally or having a carry permit does not make anyone more likely to commit suicide, it just makes them more likely to be successful at their endeavor. Nobody is getting an LTC specifically to commit suicide, it's too lengthy of a process, they'd find other means. Shit like this just gives the anti's more fuel for the fire.

 

[Buck F]

Is there a segment of the required classroom hours for your drivers lic about suicide???? Because for your average mASSholian, it's easier to drive into a bridge abutment than to obtain a gun and shoot yourself in the head.

Or to go to one of the rent-a-ranges and do it there.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I think I'm in a different place. I agree that it shouldn't be required, and especially that we shouldn't be made to present the state's death-by-powerpoint.

That said, I have held a friend's firearm when he said he needed it out of the house, and I think it's reasonable to say that that's an option, and to note that the Samaritans hotline exists for the counseling purpose. I think talking about it from the perspective of individuals making choices for themselves is not blaming firearms for suicide, but recognizing that said individual who is considering it might choose to distance himself for a period and that by doing it within the community, we keep the state out of it.

there are too many moving parts for this to be a one-size solution.

 

[Knob Creek]

Got the survey as well. Pretty much agree that Suicide Prevention is getting too much in the weeds. Proper storage of a firearm is as close as I get.

 

[Dench]

If public health cared about suicide prevention they'd look into why people kill themselves and go from there.

The suicide prevention system in the US is a joke. As if a person whose feeling suicidal would dial a number to essentially be arrested by the police, taken off in an ambulance and confined for days. That shit pisses me off because there's no doubt people refuse to seek help because they don't want to be in a de facto jail and instead go with the original suicide plan.

We used to do those calls all the time at the fire department. A person would make a casual comment to their counselor, the counselor would call the police as they are mandated reporters and eventually the police, fire and ambulance would find them and take them away. talk about f***ing humiliation. How do you even get help if you cant speak your mind without being sent to a mental institution? Clown world.

 

[Hogie1]

Mostly based on Suicide prevention. It took less than 10 minutes to complete. I always incorporate Suicide prevention in my classes at the end of Mass Gun Laws, so this is nothing new. Looks like Mass might incorporate PowerPoint slides based on the Utah class. I had a co-worker jump off the George Washington bridge. We were friends and I never saw this coming. I take this shit seriously.

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. Thank you for adding that prevention info to your classes, it may help someone someday.

 

[Hogie1]

Suicide prevention should not have anything to do with a firearms class. Owning a gun legally or having a carry permit does not make anyone more likely to commit suicide, it just makes them more likely to be successful at their endeavor. Nobody is getting an LTC specifically to commit suicide, it's too lengthy of a process, they'd find other means. Shit like this just gives the anti's more fuel for the fire.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I took it as the OP added the info of his own choosing. It is a touchy subject, but to own/carry a firearm is an awesome responsibility as well as a right. If Pro-2A people can point out that 2/3's of firearm deaths are attributed to suicide, what is wrong with having a brief discussion about? Perhaps it's just saying "Hey, there are options or people to reach out to before making a permanent solution to a temporary problem. There are resources out there to get to a better tomorrow." Just my thoughts.

 

[Dennis in MA]

I think I'm in a different place. I agree that it shouldn't be required, and especially that we shouldn't be made to present the state's death-by-powerpoint.

That said, I have held a friend's firearm when he said he needed it out of the house, and I think it's reasonable to say that that's an option, and to note that the Samaritans hotline exists for the counseling purpose. I think talking about it from the perspective of individuals making choices for themselves is not blaming firearms for suicide, but recognizing that said individual who is considering it might choose to distance himself for a period and that by doing it within the community, we keep the state out of it.

there are too many moving parts for this to be a one-size solution.

I'm sure I'm not in the minority, but I've got an issue with the whole class in general. Imagine being forced to take a class to vote or to get on a soapbox in the town square.

Got the survey as well. Pretty much agree that Suicide Prevention is getting too much in the weeds. Proper storage of a firearm is as close as I get.

And we won't get into that one either. LOL. (Not the discussion of proper storage, but what mASS considers "proper storage as long as you aren't running for Mayor of Los Angeles" and what a human can define based on their own lifestyle choices.)

 

[Dennis in MA]

It is a touchy subject, but to own/carry a firearm is an awesome responsibility as well as a right.

So is voting. Yet people vote based on hair style, height and wedding equipment.

Gosh I'm in a pissy mood this afternoon. LOL

 

[Hogie1]

So is voting. Yet people vote based on hair style, height and wedding equipment.

Gosh I'm in a pissy mood this afternoon. LOL

Agreed! Not trying to piss you or any one off. Just coming from a position of wanting to educate the new people to the firearm realm.

 

[Buck F]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I took it as the OP added the info of his own choosing. It is a touchy subject, but to own/carry a firearm is an awesome responsibility as well as a right. If Pro-2A people can point out that 2/3's of firearm deaths are attributed to suicide, what is wrong with having a brief discussion about? Perhaps it's just saying "Hey, there are options or people to reach out to before making a permanent solution to a temporary problem. There are resources out there to get to a better tomorrow." Just my thoughts.

The harm is that guns don't cause suicides and including it in the class implies that they do. If an individual instructor wants to touch on it in class that's fine but we're talking about the State mandating it as part of the course - that's what the survey is about. As I mentioned, I know three people in two years who committed suicide by hanging, I don't know a single person who has shot themselves. We teach the gun safety class. Suicide is not a gun safety issue, it's a mental health issue.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I'm sure I'm not in the minority, but I've got an issue with the whole class in general. Imagine being forced to take a class to vote or to get on a soapbox in the town square.




And we won't get into that one either. LOL. (Not the discussion of proper storage, but what mASS considers "proper storage as long as you aren't running for Mayor of Los Angeles" and what a human can define based on their own lifestyle choices.)

I'm sure we all agree it shouldn't be a required class...are you implying the class shouldn't be available to those who want it?

The harm is that guns don't cause suicides and including it in the class implies that they do. If an individual instructor wants to touch on it in class that's fine but we're talking about the State mandating it as part of the course - that's what the survey is about. As I mentioned, I know three people in two years who committed suicide by hanging, I don't know a single person who has shot themselves. We teach the gun safety class. Suicide is not a gun safety issue, it's a mental health issue.

I'm pretty sure it's already required (changed a couple years ago) but the format isn't prescribed. I agree, they're probably looking to make it more onerous, and we should push back on that.

 

[Buck F]

I'm pretty sure it's already required (changed a couple years ago) but the format isn't prescribed. I agree, they're probably looking to make it more onerous, and we should push back on that.

I don't know, I haven't taught the licensing class so not really up on recent changes.

 

[DPR]

I bailed on the survey when the questions got away from BASIC firearms safety and Ma law. The MSP is not going to use the survey info to help instructors, gun owners or future gun owners.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I don't know, I haven't taught the licensing class so not really up on recent changes.

Thinking back, I think they added it when they slammed us with ERPO...

 

[MassPete]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I took it as the OP added the info of his own choosing. It is a touchy subject, but to own/carry a firearm is an awesome responsibility as well as a right. If Pro-2A people can point out that 2/3's of firearm deaths are attributed to suicide, what is wrong with having a brief discussion about? Perhaps it's just saying "Hey, there are options or people to reach out to before making a permanent solution to a temporary problem. There are resources out there to get to a better tomorrow." Just my thoughts.

Spot on.... I've lost several friends over the years from Suicide. Thankfully, none related to gun violence. For MSP to put this out, it is obviously high up on their list. I really don't see this as an issue. For us to spend 5 minutes with a UTAH style PowerPoint presentation is worth it IMHO.