Mosin Nagants Exempt from Storage Laws?

[dcmdon]

Hi all.

So I was commenting on another thread re storage, so I re read the law. I noticed that 131L has this carve out:

(f) This section shall not apply to the storage or keeping of any firearm, rifle or shotgun with matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or prior to the year 1899, or to any replica of any such firearm, rifle or shotgun if such replica is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

So the question is, based on that language, would the Mosin Nagant rifle be exempt from safe storage laws, even if it was made post 1899 because it was designed and manufactured first, before 1899. In other words, that WWII era Mosin is a replica of the 91/30 model, which pre-dates 1899.

I ask because when in CT, I would occasionally leave a Mosin out with the bolt and magazine removed. Those items were put in my safe. The gun was useless if stolen, and it was safe for children etc.
I know that MA case law has determined that removing a bolt is not enough to render a firearm incapable of firing a shot.

The practical application of this question would be to store (hide) some of my Mosin's outside my safe. It seems that per the law, they could be stored this way intact, complete with bolt and magazine. But because I look at everything primarily from an ethical perspective, I would still remove the magazine and bolt.

Thoughts?

Don

p.s. a half dozen Mosin's takes up a lot of room in the safe.

 

[the_shootist]

matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or prior to the year 1899

Me thinks you glossed over this part

 

[Rob Boudrie]

So the question is, based on that language, would the Mosin Nagant rifle be exempt from safe storage laws, even if it was made post 1899 because it was designed and manufactured first, before 1899.

I am not a Moisin Nagant scholar, however the clause "or to any replica of any such firearm, rifle or shotgun if such replica is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunitio" would appear to exclude replicas.

 

[Ultrarunner]

Would an ADA prosecute in MA? Yes.
Would a jury of your peers convict in MA? Yes.

That's all that matters at the end of the day.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Would an ADA prosecute in MA? Yes.
Would a jury of your peers convict in MA? Yes.

That's all that matters at the end of the day.

^^^^^ Agreed,

No, my IANAL reading of that exemption certainly won't include WWII vintage Mosins.

 

[warwickben]

I think you would need a true pre 1899 to be safe in mass cause of the center fire wording .

I wish I could track one down since you could make one a obrez with out being nfa .

 

[45collector]

I think you would need a true pre 1899 to be safe in mass cause of the center fire wording .

Doesn't matter what year the gun was made. For the purpose of MA storage laws, if the firearm is chambered for rimfire or centerfire ammunition, it must be stored cased/ triggerlocked. I have an old Belgium-made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun with damascus barrels that was made in 1883, and even that needs to be locked up/ triggerlocked.

 

[warwickben]

Doesn't matter what year the gun was made. For the purpose of MA storage laws, if the firearm is chambered for rimfire or centerfire ammunition, it must be stored cased/ triggerlocked. I have an old Belgium-made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun with damascus barrels that was made in 1883, and even that needs to be locked up/ triggerlocked.

It's not legally a firearm tho ... Do you need a 12g flare gun locked up? They sell those on a rack at Walmart that any kid could steal .
Legally speaking it's not a firearm ...

 

[Boris]

I think you would need a true pre 1899 to be safe in mass cause of the center fire wording .

I wish I could track one down since you could make one a obrez with out being nfa .

so nfa doesn't apply to rifles made pre-1899? I'm sure that you can find pre-1899 parts, but it seems like manufacture would be done today

 

[warwickben]

so nfa doesn't apply to rifles made pre-1899? I'm sure that you can find pre-1899 parts, but it seems like manufacture would be done today

My thinking is its not legally a firearm if it's pre 1899. It can't fall under nfa. Think of it this way , blunderbusses are often under 16" barrel and over 50 cal. But muzzle loaders aren't legally firearms.


Once I convert it to a pistol it would legally be a pistol since I just manufactured a pistol ...

I've been looking for a pre 1899 receiver or complete rifles. The rifles I've found where too nice to chop up .

 

[Boris]

My thinking is its not legally a firearm if it's pre 1899. It can't fall under nfa. Think of it this way , blunderbusses are often under 16" barrel and over 50 cal. But muzzle loaders aren't legally firearms.


Once I convert it to a pistol it would legally be a pistol since I just manufactured a pistol ...

I've been looking for a pre 1899 receiver or complete rifles. The rifles I've found where too nice to chop up .

I'd doublecheck on that. BP shit is a totally different ball game. Pre 1899 parts do float around because they are usually in shit shape to start with and were parted out in the golden years of mosin imports when shit was dirt cheap.

 

[warwickben]

I'd doublecheck on that. BP shit is a totally different ball game. Pre 1899 parts do float around because they are usually in shit shape to start with and were parted out in the golden years of mosin imports when shit was dirt cheap.

I was using the bp as a reference. Before I chop one up if make sure I got the info approved 100%
But I do know pre 1899 center fire guns are handle different then post and most rules don't apply .
I thought about just buying a few receivers and cutting them up and re welding to make a new pistol .

 

[45collector]

It's not legally a firearm tho ... Do you need a 12g flare gun locked up? They sell those on a rack at Walmart that any kid could steal .
Legally speaking it's not a firearm ...

In regards to an antique Mosin, federally speaking it's not a firearm. However, even though MA recognizes that it doesn't require an FID or an LTC to own it, the state requires that it be stored locked/ triggerlocked because it does accept "modern" ammunition. Crazy, I know. Len should be by shortly to either confirm this, or give me the good old "Wrong!"

ETA: and regarding a flare gun, there is no modern flare gun that I know of that can accept a 2 3/4" 12 gauge shell. Now whether or not one of those mini Aguilla 12g shells would fit into an Olin-type flaregun, I don't know. I don't want to know, and I hope no one ever tries to find out. That would be quite dangerous.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I agree with John above!

 

[Boris]

ETA: and regarding a flare gun, there is no modern flare gun that I know of that can accept a 2 3/4" 12 gauge shell.

the 1" black pipe does ... we are all felons.

 

[warwickben]

the 1" black pipe does ... we are all felons.

I wish I had the video of the kid who shot a once ounce slug from a slam fire shotgun .
A. 50 big fits with some tape. But doesn't really do any thing .

 

[45collector]

the 1" black pipe does ... we are all felons.

With the advent of the high capacity soda bottle, everyone, their mothers, and their mothers' mothers are goin' ta jail.

 

[dcmdon]

Thanks for all the input .

Ben - if its not a firearm, it can't be a NFA firearm.

Don

 

[jtnf]

EVERY time a question like this comes up my mind always goes to "Can you afford to be the precedent setting case?"
You can be charged with anything... All it takes is a DA or ADA with political ambition who wants to 'get tough on crime.'
Exonerating yourself in court will take more blood, sweat, tears, money, and years of your life than I would want to invest.

 

[dcmdon]

EVERY time a question like this comes up my mind always goes to "Can you afford to be the precedent setting case?"
You can be charged with anything... All it takes is a DA or ADA with political ambition who wants to 'get tough on crime.'
Exonerating yourself in court will take more blood, sweat, tears, money, and years of your life than I would want to invest.

And every time I pose one of these kinds of questions, I try to make it clear that I'm to asking for an answer based on fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

I want to know what the LAW IS. Your own risk tolerance determines whether or not you exercise your rights within the law.

I'm not asking if its advisable. I'm asking if its legal.

Don

p.s. for what its worth, if I'm not carrying any large capacity firearms, I transport unlocked firearms in a soft gun bag in the car with me. Perfectly legal, and much more convenient.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131c

 

[whacko]

matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or prior to the year 1899

Me thinks you glossed over this part

am i the only other one here that sees this as the "end thread" answer? a 91-30 mosin is a damn bolt action rifle and clearly NOT exempt from storage law.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi all.

So I was commenting on another thread re storage, so I re read the law. I noticed that 131L has this carve out:

(f) This section shall not apply to the storage or keeping of any firearm, rifle or shotgun with matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or prior to the year 1899, or to any replica of any such firearm, rifle or shotgun if such replica is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

So the question is, based on that language, would the Mosin Nagant rifle be exempt from safe storage laws, even if it was made post 1899 because it was designed and manufactured first, before 1899. In other words, that WWII era Mosin is a replica of the 91/30 model, which pre-dates 1899.

I ask because when in CT, I would occasionally leave a Mosin out with the bolt and magazine removed. Those items were put in my safe. The gun was useless if stolen, and it was safe for children etc.
I know that MA case law has determined that removing a bolt is not enough to render a firearm incapable of firing a shot.

The practical application of this question would be to store (hide) some of my Mosin's outside my safe. It seems that per the law, they could be stored this way intact, complete with bolt and magazine. But because I look at everything primarily from an ethical perspective, I would still remove the magazine and bolt.

Thoughts?

Don

p.s. a half dozen Mosin's takes up a lot of room in the safe.

Its a bolt action rifle not matchlock flintloc percussion cap ignition. Store it according to mass law. End thread

 

[Tyke]

Hi all.

So I was commenting on another thread re storage, so I re read the law. I noticed that 131L has this carve out:

(f) This section shall not apply to the storage or keeping of any firearm, rifle or shotgun with matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or prior to the year 1899, or to any replica of any such firearm, rifle or shotgun if such replica is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

So the question is, based on that language, would the Mosin Nagant rifle be exempt from safe storage laws, even if it was made post 1899 because it was designed and manufactured first, before 1899. In other words, that WWII era Mosin is a replica of the 91/30 model, which pre-dates 1899.

I ask because when in CT, I would occasionally leave a Mosin out with the bolt and magazine removed. Those items were put in my safe. The gun was useless if stolen, and it was safe for children etc.
I know that MA case law has determined that removing a bolt is not enough to render a firearm incapable of firing a shot.

The practical application of this question would be to store (hide) some of my Mosin's outside my safe. It seems that per the law, they could be stored this way intact, complete with bolt and magazine. But because I look at everything primarily from an ethical perspective, I would still remove the magazine and bolt.

Thoughts?

Don

p.s. a half dozen Mosin's takes up a lot of room in the safe.

Everyone harped on the underlined part. I'm going to harp on the bolded part. You're sunk 2 ways.