I just started reloading, and have been doing mostly .45acp using 230grn lead bullets and Titegroup powder. The other night I'm shooting some of them outdoors with very little of a breeze and I notice that there seems to be a lot more smoke from each shot than I remember when using factory loads. A guy next to me say "thats because you're using lead bullets". Said something about the lead melting more than with jacketed bullets. It didn't really make sense to me though. Melting doesn't produce smoke. After thinking about it for a while, I can't figure out how the bullet itself contributes to the amount of smoke produced. I'm guessing it was the powder, but someone care to explain why it might be the bullet?
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More smoke from lead bullets?
- Thread starter Slim
- Start date
With exposed base bullets.. whether lead of FMJ.. some of the lead vaporizes. Not sure it that's what the smoke is. Usually lead bullets have some kind of lube or coating that may contribute to this smoke.
I use Berrys... fully copper plated.. no lead exposed at all.
I use Berrys... fully copper plated.. no lead exposed at all.
Thanks. I'll try some.
Now if I could only find some kind member that would share the secrets of the suppliers that will ship to MA, I'd be all set.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
But is it the lubricant that causes the additional smoke, the lead or the powder?
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Typically on lead bullets they have a wax lube on the bullets that smoke like crazy. I avoid lead bullets like the plague. The few bucks that you save over jacketed aren't worth the risk to your health. Plus, having to clean your reloading dies all the time because of the wax build up is a pain in the Arse!!!
The most common cause of smoke with lead bullet loads is from the bullet lube.
Most high speed lubes contain a lubricant lnown as "Alox."
Alox is an excellent lubricant but smokes a lot.
The smoking is often caused by bullet lube on the base of the bullet. Wiping the bases clean before loading, on a cloth pad, either dry or moistened with mineral spirits, will reduce the smoking.
The small amount of metallic lead that is released from bullets when firing outdoors or on a well ventilated range is unlikely to cause health problems. The lead compounds in non-corrosive primers is the likely source of lead exposure and is exactly the same amount regardless of the type of bullet fired.
I am usually amused but sometimes annoyed by the recent paranoia concerning lead exposure. Metallic lead, at room temperature, is almost completely inert and was commonly used in water systems until recently with no apparent ill effects. Have we all suddenly become allergic to it? The vapors of lead, caused by raising it to its' boiling point, the oxides of lead, and the lead compounds produced by primers can be a problem if not handled properly.
If your cases are properly expanded, or "belled" when loading lead bullets, you will not get any significant amount of bullet lube in your seating dies. The hard lubes that are now used on lead bullets are not going to migrate out of the case unless is is significantly undersize.
I load tens of thousands of cast bullets in handgun and rifle cartridges every year and lube buildup in the seating dies simply isn't a problem.
Jack
Most high speed lubes contain a lubricant lnown as "Alox."
Alox is an excellent lubricant but smokes a lot.
The smoking is often caused by bullet lube on the base of the bullet. Wiping the bases clean before loading, on a cloth pad, either dry or moistened with mineral spirits, will reduce the smoking.
The small amount of metallic lead that is released from bullets when firing outdoors or on a well ventilated range is unlikely to cause health problems. The lead compounds in non-corrosive primers is the likely source of lead exposure and is exactly the same amount regardless of the type of bullet fired.
I am usually amused but sometimes annoyed by the recent paranoia concerning lead exposure. Metallic lead, at room temperature, is almost completely inert and was commonly used in water systems until recently with no apparent ill effects. Have we all suddenly become allergic to it? The vapors of lead, caused by raising it to its' boiling point, the oxides of lead, and the lead compounds produced by primers can be a problem if not handled properly.
If your cases are properly expanded, or "belled" when loading lead bullets, you will not get any significant amount of bullet lube in your seating dies. The hard lubes that are now used on lead bullets are not going to migrate out of the case unless is is significantly undersize.
I load tens of thousands of cast bullets in handgun and rifle cartridges every year and lube buildup in the seating dies simply isn't a problem.
Jack
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The main issue I see with lead exposure from lead bullets happens during the reloading process when you're handling the lead bullets as you're seating them on the cases. When I first got into reloading my ex girlfriends mother was not too happy. She was a captain of the State Police in NH and the reloader for the police academy was suffering from lead exposure due to the handling of lead bullets. Obviously he was loading a lot more than the average shooter but it's still an issue.
Handling lead bullets should not be a problem. Wash your hands when done or wear protective gloves if you are really worried. I have known two people who developed a high lead content in their blood. One was a competitive shooter who shot and reloaded a lot and the second was a commercial bullet caster who also competed and shot a lot. The lead contamination in the competitive shooter's bloodstream was traced to the dust from over used tumbling media and the problem with the commercial caster was traced to apoor ventilation system at his local club. I'll bet your LEO friend picked up the lead at the academy range.
Part of my work involves human health risk assessment, and you're correct - lead has a low dermal absorption factor (a measure of how easily a chemical passes through the skin and into the body) so simply handling lead should not be a problem. What can be a problem is eating or smoking with lead residue on the hands, so washing after handling lead or wearing gloves is important.
I was recently diagnosed with elevated lead resulting (I'm sure) from shooting in two Bullseye leagues in ranges with inadequate ventilation. I'm not the first shooter on my team to have problems, and I'm sure I won't be the last. I'm now shooting with a respirator, which has been effective for others in bringing lead levels back into line. I'd strongly urge anyone who does a lot of shooting indoors to have their doctor add lead to the list of analytes for their blood sample at their next physical.
Call your doctor's office at least several days before your appointment and tell them that you need a lead test. Remind them that they need to order a special vial for it. If the blood test isn't done with a particular vial (one that most internists don't stock), the lab will reject the sample. Been there, done that, had to come back to the doctor's office and get stuck again. The test itself is cheap (~$15 or so the last time I had it).
I'm guessing that the difference in the vials is not the vial material itself, but rather the chemicals used to clean it.
Yeah, good point. I was lucky and my doctor happened to have the vial on hand (they didn't even know they had them until they looked), but I also asked them to check for PCBs and that one they didn't have, so I had to come back and get stuck again.
I have been shooting for more than 55 years. Both military & bullseye competition. They never had even exhaust fans in the 50's & 60's. You would blow black snot for a week after a shoot! I have cast tons of lead, sitting over a lead pot @ 650-750 degrees.
My wife thought I was brain dead from all of this and scheduled a lead test.
I came out with a 2, on a scale of 1-10.
I believe that peoples absorbsion varies a great deal.
The lead styphanate, or azide used in primers is the major concern to health.
My opinion!
My wife thought I was brain dead from all of this and scheduled a lead test.
I came out with a 2, on a scale of 1-10.
I believe that peoples absorbsion varies a great deal.
The lead styphanate, or azide used in primers is the major concern to health.
My opinion!
lead again??
most of lead problems are not from shooting.I have lead test done from time to time 3 or 4 yrs apart.I dont think lead melts or vaporizes unless your shooting really hot loads.the time factor is not there. dont smoke or eat before washing hands.I have been casting since 1939 and was directer of loading at one club.I have a dedicated Lee 1000 for 45acp and a dedicated green machine for 38 spec.plus 8 other machines with 30 moulds.washing parts in gasoline was probably the worst offender.clean bullets loaded in cases
should not make a mess in dies.poor house keeping does.![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
--![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
-![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
most of lead problems are not from shooting.I have lead test done from time to time 3 or 4 yrs apart.I dont think lead melts or vaporizes unless your shooting really hot loads.the time factor is not there. dont smoke or eat before washing hands.I have been casting since 1939 and was directer of loading at one club.I have a dedicated Lee 1000 for 45acp and a dedicated green machine for 38 spec.plus 8 other machines with 30 moulds.washing parts in gasoline was probably the worst offender.clean bullets loaded in cases
should not make a mess in dies.poor house keeping does.
---Serum lead levels are reported in units of micrograms per deciliter, with 25 being the generally accepted definition of "elevated" (mine was 31). I don't think I'd trust a test that reported in terms of where you fall on a range of 1 to 10.
Yes, I don't doubt that there is some variability, but I don't have any data at hand one way or the other. I'll probably get around to looking at the ATSDR database on lead sometime and if there's anything of interest there I'll report back.
By "concern to health" I'm assuming that you mean it's a more important source of particulate lead in shooting ranges than lead bullets. If so - I've heard that often enough that I tend to believe it as well, though again I have no data to support that conclusion.
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According to a friend in the lead abatement field, lead exposure can cause various health problems, but the worst by far is how it interferes with the development of the central nervous system.
So, take basic precautions if you're older (and have a fully developed nervous system), but a little exposure ain't gonna kill you. But do your best to keep it from getting into your children. The younger they are, the more development it can interfere with. And it's permanent. Very small amounts can do a lot a damage to very young children.
So, take basic precautions if you're older (and have a fully developed nervous system), but a little exposure ain't gonna kill you. But do your best to keep it from getting into your children. The younger they are, the more development it can interfere with. And it's permanent. Very small amounts can do a lot a damage to very young children.
