Money saving AR15 accessory options.

[center442]

In defense of iron sights....

Sure, of course you should become proficient with your backup sight system. I just disagree that you have to learn with irons first.

It's recommended knowing how to do basic arithmetics before using a calculator

You don't have to learn on iron sights first, but I think it's a smart thing to do. Part of my belief is just me being an old fart but another part is based on coping when technology fails.

If you learn on iron sights, that knowledge will always be ingrained. You can call it up when you need it and it will work when technology fails you. I compare it with being able to make change when the power goes out and the cash register (calculator) isn't working. All of the cars I have had for the last few decades have had automatic trannies, but I learned to drive on a standard shift. I can still do so when I need to. I haven't had to change a tire in a long time, but I can do so if I need to. Some skills are basic and should be learned even if they're not used on a daily basis. If the SHTF it's not a good time to try to learn basic skills.

My eyes are a far cry from what they were 40 years ago. I use optics for most of my shooting, but I can still use a set of irons if I need to. I use optics, but I'm not confined to them. I'm not a Luddite, and I like technology, but there are a lot of things that can be done in a simpler, more reliable fashion. I use a calculator, but I can still recite multiplication tables and do simple calculations in my head without a calculator. I come across a lot of people today who don't have those basic abilities and it saddens me. Those people have chained themselves to a piece of technology, and when technology fails them they're lost.

All of my AR's have functional iron sights even though they all carry optics. Learn to use irons, then choose whatever you want to use. You'll always have the skill to fall back on.

 

[atilla]

You don't have to learn on iron sights first, but I think it's a smart thing to do. Part of my belief is just me being an old fart but another part is based on coping when technology fails.

If you learn on iron sights, that knowledge will always be ingrained. You can call it up when you need it and it will work when technology fails you. I compare it with being able to make change when the power goes out and the cash register (calculator) isn't working. All of the cars I have had for the last few decades have had automatic trannies, but I learned to drive on a standard shift. I can still do so when I need to. I haven't had to change a tire in a long time, but I can do so if I need to. Some skills are basic and should be learned even if they're not used on a daily basis. If the SHTF it's not a good time to try to learn basic skills.

My eyes are a far cry from what they were 40 years ago. I use optics for most of my shooting, but I can still use a set of irons if I need to. I use optics, but I'm not confined to them. I'm not a Luddite, and I like technology, but there are a lot of things that can be done in a simpler, more reliable fashion. I use a calculator, but I can still recite multiplication tables and do simple calculations in my head without a calculator. I come across a lot of people today who don't have those basic abilities and it saddens me. Those people have chained themselves to a piece of technology, and when technology fails them they're lost.

All of my AR's have functional iron sights even though they all carry optics. Learn to use irons, then choose whatever you want to use. You'll always have the skill to fall back on.

got nothing to do with 'ya being an "old fart", my man. i'm still a "kid" by the standards of a lot of guys on here and i agree with 'ya %100.

 

[oilspill]

You don't have to learn on iron sights first, but I think it's a smart thing to do. Part of my belief is just me being an old fart but another part is based on coping when technology fails.

If you learn on iron sights, that knowledge will always be ingrained. You can call it up when you need it and it will work when technology fails you. I compare it with being able to make change when the power goes out and the cash register (calculator) isn't working. All of the cars I have had for the last few decades have had automatic trannies, but I learned to drive on a standard shift. I can still do so when I need to. I haven't had to change a tire in a long time, but I can do so if I need to. Some skills are basic and should be learned even if they're not used on a daily basis. If the SHTF it's not a good time to try to learn basic skills.

My eyes are a far cry from what they were 40 years ago. I use optics for most of my shooting, but I can still use a set of irons if I need to. I use optics, but I'm not confined to them. I'm not a Luddite, and I like technology, but there are a lot of things that can be done in a simpler, more reliable fashion. I use a calculator, but I can still recite multiplication tables and do simple calculations in my head without a calculator. I come across a lot of people today who don't have those basic abilities and it saddens me. Those people have chained themselves to a piece of technology, and when technology fails them they're lost.

All of my AR's have functional iron sights even though they all carry optics. Learn to use irons, then choose whatever you want to use. You'll always have the skill to fall back on.

No one has said you shouldn't learn to shoot with irons.

If you were teaching someone to drive today, would you start them on a standard? I have a 14 year old and she will learn to drive manual eventually, but only after she becomes proficient with what she'll likely be using for the rest of her life.

 

[Golddiggie]

You don't have to learn on iron sights first, but I think it's a smart thing to do. Part of my belief is just me being an old fart but another part is based on coping when technology fails.

If you learn on iron sights, that knowledge will always be ingrained. You can call it up when you need it and it will work when technology fails you. I compare it with being able to make change when the power goes out and the cash register (calculator) isn't working. All of the cars I have had for the last few decades have had automatic trannies, but I learned to drive on a standard shift. I can still do so when I need to. I haven't had to change a tire in a long time, but I can do so if I need to. Some skills are basic and should be learned even if they're not used on a daily basis. If the SHTF it's not a good time to try to learn basic skills.

My eyes are a far cry from what they were 40 years ago. I use optics for most of my shooting, but I can still use a set of irons if I need to. I use optics, but I'm not confined to them. I'm not a Luddite, and I like technology, but there are a lot of things that can be done in a simpler, more reliable fashion. I use a calculator, but I can still recite multiplication tables and do simple calculations in my head without a calculator. I come across a lot of people today who don't have those basic abilities and it saddens me. Those people have chained themselves to a piece of technology, and when technology fails them they're lost.

All of my AR's have functional iron sights even though they all carry optics. Learn to use irons, then choose whatever you want to use. You'll always have the skill to fall back on.

My eyes are not all that great these days. Without glasses (or contacts) I'm pretty much blind (I can see clearly maybe a foot in front of my eyes without help). Which is why I put a decent scope on my AR15. I'll put a better ones onto the longer range rifles, as I build them up. I prefer iron sights for my pistols. I do have a dot type sight (holo type) that I might use in the future (it's sitting on my AR pistol's upper right now, but not sure if it will stay there).

For me, any rifle that I'll be using for 200+ yard ranges probably won't have iron sights on them. It just doesn't make sense, to me, to have iron sights on those uppers/rifles.

I do agree that you should be able to use iron sights on firearms with them.

 

[Tim94gt]

If your only going to use it for occasional range duty, by all means save some cash and buy the cheap stuff. Just expect to replace it when it breaks or falls apart.

Otherwise, do yourself a favor and buy quality parts and accessories. If you cannot afford to spend money on quality parts, save up until you can. Buy once, cry once.

I like to buy Myself giftcards when I'm saving for gun parts, that way I don't spend the money on something else. Right now, I have a few hundred worth of BCM giftcards just waing for the 14.5" middy uppers to be in stock.

 

[ivarr]

Also, I disagree with the people who say learn to shoot with irons first - especially if your primary sight is going to be a red dot. I'd learn your primary sight first and learn the secondary sights second. As Pat Rogers once said:

"We need to get over the romance of aligning sights and get to the business of shooting smelly bearded men in the face more efficiently."

what happens when the optic doesn't function? your irons ARE your primary sights, anything on top of that is just gravy.

+1 - I always make sure my sights are adjusted and ringing the steel before I look at an optic setup

With proper preventative checks and maintenance including batteries, quality modern optics rarely fail. Whereas most BUISs are fairly flimsy and often have wide apertures.

But regardless, yes one should know how to shoot with irons. They should know the concept and have a basic shooting familiarization with them. But one shouldn't focus most of their time on the irons. The problem is that many people say that someone should only get a red dot sight when they've mastered the iron sights. That's just silly and counterproductive.

Sure, of course you should become proficient with your backup sight system. I just disagree that you have to learn with irons first.

It's recommended knowing how to do basic arithmetics before using a calculator

when you are under fire ( or even NOT ) things happen.
glass gets chipped, fogged dropped cracked and destroyed.


my opinion for ANY rifle, if you can't shoot by aligning two sights made of metal, than you can't shoot. PERIOD.
but i'm just drunk most of the time, so feel free to disregard anything i type.

 

[center442]

No one has said you shouldn't learn to shoot with irons.

If you were teaching someone to drive today, would you start them on a standard? I have a 14 year old and she will learn to drive manual eventually, but only after she becomes proficient with what she'll likely be using for the rest of her life.

I'll confess that our three kids all learned to drive on automatics. My personal preference would have been that they learn on standards, but I was overruled.

I did take note that you believe in learning to use irons, and I agree. When I introduced my kids to shooting they all started with iron sights. I have found it easier to start with the "old basics" first and then transition to the newer methods. I believe that learning the basics puts them more in touch with the tool they're using, that it helps them to gain an innate understanding of what's going on and how it's happening. The other thing is that people frequently don't learn other ways of doing things, they stick with what's easiest. When I first got married I told my bride that she really should learn to drive a standard and she agreed. Fast forward almost 40 years, and she still hasn't learned to drive a standard.

The other day my son went shooting with some of his friends. The batteries in the Eotech sight on his rifle were dead. He simply flipped up the irons and continued shooting. When I asked him if he missed the Eotech he said "Yeah, at first, but it wasn't a big deal. The irons worked fine and they're what I learned on."

Plus, in a Zombie Apocalypse iron sights work fine for close up headshots!

 

[PappyM3]

when you are under fire ( or even NOT ) things happen.
glass gets chipped, fogged dropped cracked and destroyed.

True, but I've seen ACOGs get shot and were still functional. The same thing for Aimpoints. I've seen M4s get mostly destroyed by IEDs and the ACOGs were still functional. Meanwhile, I've seen BUISs snap because they got snagged on something. Iron sights aren't as fail-safe as people make them out to be.

Yes, people need a working knowledge of their iron sights. And it never hurts to gain mastery of those sights. But, for a fighting rifle, one should not practice irons so much that it is a detriment to their training on their most effective tool(optics).

 

[center442]

Going back to the original question of the thread, since I've already added to the drift...

One of the benefits of the AR platform in .223 is that it has very little recoil. Cheaper optics/parts don't stand up to heavy recoil very well, but you can get away with putting what I call "airsoft quality" parts on an AR. I've done it when money was tight and it's worked out surprisingly well. I would never put some of those parts on a 30.06, 308, or a Mosin...not unless I had duct tape with me to put them back together.

Go with what you can afford at the time. If the primary use for your rifle is range targets, it probably won't matter too much if your butt stock is a $50 Chinese knock-off instead of a top of the line $400 model. The cheaper parts will let you actually get out and do some shooting. You'll also learn what features are important to you, so if the part eventually breaks you'll know where to spend your $$ wisely in the areas that are most important to you.

I'm a fan of Harris bipods. One of my rifles has a Caldwell bipod that I bought when money was tight. It doesn't have the same build quality as a Harris, but it's been in use for several years and still works. If it ever fails me I'll probably replace it with a Harris if I have the coin. If not, it'll get another knock-off. If money is really tight, I'll use a sandbag. The important thing is that I'll still be enjoying shooting.

 

[Golddiggie]

I would advise getting the best your budget will allow. If you have a ceiling of $200 for a scope, you can get a good one. It won't have all the refinement the $600+ scopes have (at the same magnifications) but it will let you send rounds down range. For things like iron sights, I would budget $100 and get MagPul's (flip up).

Something else you might want to consider, after you've fired the AR15. A heavier buffer can help keep things more under control and make shooting more fun/enjoyable. While you won't get the muzzle rise like you can from higher caliber rifles, a .223/5.56 NATO rifle is NOT a .22LR rifle. Recoil is several times that of a .22LR rifle. After not shooting for over 10 years, I went to the range with my new AR15 (and 1911). The recoil of the AR15 was more than I had expected it to be, but still controllable. I have changed the stock 3oz buffer for a 5.2oz buffer since then and look forward to going to the range again to see how it compares. The heavier buffer will also help with the recoil sent to your optics and such. Which means that more budget friendly scope will hold up longer. I just want the one I got to last until I've got the budget for a better scope.

If you're not in a rush to get items, then watch the different sites for sales, or availability of the item you really want. Being patient will pay off in a big way there.

BTW, the scope I picked has a version with a laser built into it. I decided to NOT get that since it seemed pretty foolish to me. IF I want a laser on the rifle, I'll put it closer to the muzzle end, on a rail, so it's closer to where the round will travel. I don't see the point in having it in line with the scope. Especially since that's something else to draw power from any batteries. Plus, it won't be as easy to engage when needed (with the rail mount, it's just a matter of hitting the button). I'd rather stay on target with the rifle than have to reach up and hit the laser activation button on the scope. I've also seen scopes that have a dot mounted on top of them... WTF is up with that? You need to do a major shift to use it (breaking the cheek weld). I like the 45 degree shift iron sights far better. Cheek weld is virtually the same, since it is a minor shift in orientation to get them in line. So transition between is both fast and easy. I just need to sight in the BUIS next range trip.

 

[TimJ]

Primary Arms optics and red dot sights get great reviews.

I am VERY happy with the several Primary Arms red dots I own. they don't have the battery life of Aimpoint but I'm not running recon in the Hindu Kush, either ;-).
I have a micro on a FAL and an M4 clone on an M-4gery. Neither has lost zero or had any issues at all.

The Mag-Pul handguards are great- strong and comfortable. If you are only using HG's for a light or gangster grip I like them better than a rail. A little skater tape goes a long way on them, too.

http://swfa.com/Optisan-1-4x24-Mamba-EAR30-Mount-Combo-P51887.aspx

this is a great budget optic, I have one on a spare upper. it works great at 1x as a dot sight and the calibrations are spot on....it's not a Short-Dot but it's not $1,000+, too. I like it better than the Millet my buddy has..

 

[dcmdon]

what happens when the optic doesn't function? your irons ARE your primary sights, anything on top of that is just gravy.

I'm a big fan of irons, and a huge advocate of learning to shoot irons well before you get an optic. But the times they are a changing.

I finally bought an aimpoint last year. A micro T1. Its everything everyone says they are. I took a class at Academi last year and one of the instructors told me that the previous day a bunch of guards from the sub base were in there for some transition training to get on Aimpoints. He said the military instructor (The USN was just renting the facility, not using Academi instructors) took an aimpoint with a LaRue mount off a gun and repeatedly threw it the full length of the range. Then he remounted it, flipped the gun upside down and dropped the gun onto the concrete wit the aimpoint on the bottom taking most of the impact.

Then he picked up his rifle and put 5 rounds down range to demonstrate that the zero had not changed. Impressive.

But even still. In that same class the instructor demonstrated that you can get minute of Jihadist hits by doing nothing more than looking down the the tube at 50 yards.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd follow the KISS (Keep It Simple Shithead) methodology. I picked up a set of MagPul flip-up BUIS for my flat-top AR15. I also have a compact 3-9x scope on it. I set the BUIS on a 45 degree cant off the top so that I could position the scope better. It's actually a very easy transition for more close-in shooting. Since the scope has an illuminated reticle, but also has a black one for when you don't use the light, it won't matter if I lose power to it (unlike with a dot type sight). I also put a MagPul AFG2 on the handguard (a drop-in aluminum quad rail). The front sight is mounted to that, as well as a flashlight mount (working on selecting a good light for that, or will use my older SureFire when I get a new one to carry). All the other rail sections are covered, so that they won't bite into my hand if I grab that instead of the AFG.

I will be building up more uppers as I can. I intend to outfit them more mission specific. Free float handguards will be standard issue on them.

BTW, with the AR platform as it stands, you can easily have one (or two) lower receivers and many upper assemblies. Simply place the upper you want to use on the lower and go shooting.

Uh. . That doesn't sound very simple. You've got a rail with an optic, sights on a .45, an angled foregrip and a light. Hardly simple.
To make matters worse, you have mounted the front sight to a drop in rail, which can shift enough to significantly alter your zero.

Here's my simple gun. . . simple. But I caved and put an optic on it.

 

[Supermoto]

I think a dot teaches fundamentals quicker than irons. They give a lot more feed back, it is easier to see where the dot tracks during recoil, they are easier to call shots with and it is easier to spot a bad trigger pull. Errors are more obvious and therefore easier and quicker to fix

 

[mass]

Go for this



No, what they said. Learn to shoot it with Irons first. As far as cheap goes, it will cost you more in the long run when you replace it with a reliable part.

Useless without a cup holder.

 

[mac1911]

I really don't have a way to say it.....there's no way to save money with a AR except one.
1. Buy the used stuff from the guy who needs the next best thing.
2. You luck out and sell the stuff you don't like anymore for what you paid or profit.
Its all personal preference.
I'm one of those guys that has good luck with the less expensive stuff.....but I can see the value of decent products.
My first AR was a stag model 2. I grew tired of the buis., windage adjustable only. Good for hit on target accuracy only.
I then installed my old ass tasco propoint red dot as usual it took the abuse I have put this little tube through and held zero as usual...THEN I PUT MY EYE ON A ACOG.....OMG GOT to HAVE IT. Well many months later I'm wondering why I have optics ontop of a gun that's less than a 1/3 of the cost? Ok so now I get into assembling my own ARs....well 6 years later I'm back to a A2 platforms. 1. Is a standard RRA A2. 2. Is a RRA A2 national match. I have a Multi manufacture carbine build with a unknown manufacture full float tube. Full rail on top with a mini rail on bottom near the front. On top is rra Rock River Arms: RRA Stand Alone Rear Sight rear sight....unknown manufacture front sight and a older eotech I think its a 553? Been a while since I used it. Love the rifles better. I sold off all my other stuff and thank God I plucked out and only lost about 10%!
I also prefer the leather service rifle sling for shooting. I'm not out walking around for hours with my ar so no input there.
There is how ever no substitute for a decent sling. Turner,tam or brown manufactures very good slings. For pure simplicity and function the canvas web slings are the cheapest work horse sling you can get. I prefer the military surplus ones.

 

[Birdz]

this is a little random but does anyone here know of a MA legal "assault pistol" such as an AR or AK type?

 

[rcwhat]

this is a little random but does anyone here know of a MA legal "assault pistol" such as an AR or AK type?

Assault pistol?....really

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Assault pistol?....really

Fail

 

[Nectaris]

So the general opinion is not to cheap out on AR accessories so I will help save $ another way.

Hannafords brand pop tarts are the bomb and taste exactly like the real pop tarts. Avoid the walmart branded pop tarts, they suck.

 

[Birdz]

Yes an assault pistol, with the way things are heading I want to make sure I can get something as evil as I can before they stop making them for ten years again. so any one know?

 

[Golddiggie]

Uh. . That doesn't sound very simple. You've got a rail with an optic, sights on a .45, an angled foregrip and a light. Hardly simple.
To make matters worse, you have mounted the front sight to a drop in rail, which can shift enough to significantly alter your zero.

Here's my simple gun. . . simple. But I caved and put an optic on it.

I don't have an optic on my 1911 (my father put one onto his race gun, mine is multi-purpose). The BUIS on my AR15 are just that, back-up's. Or for hitting at closer range than the scope will work at (under 25 yards). At that distance, any shift won't make that big of a difference. Besides, a bit closer and I'll be transitioning to my 1911. Besides, MY optic (on my AR15) doesn't need batteries to work. If your batteries run out, on the dot, it's useless. With mine, additional features just won't function (illumination of the reticle).

BTW, I don't see how having the sights on a drop-in rail is any different than having it on the barrel (like you have). I might change the rails over to a free float version in the future, on that upper. Or I'll just build another upper and not worry about it. I'm not looking to make 200+ yard shots with iron sights here.

I'm still deciding on my AR15 based pistol. I need to settle on a barrel before I decide on the handguard and sight system. I'd like a carbine length gas tube in it, but I'm seeing the advantages of a 7.5" barrel too. I just want one without a sight already on it.

I don't see any rear sight on the SBR in your picture (that has to be a short barrel on there, no way is it 16"). So when your dot fails, breaks, runs out of batteries, what are you going to do?

 

[Livefreeormass]

For my first build, I want a flat top/free float upper. The barrel nut and delta ring (is there still delta ring?) are different, right? Would appreciate a link on a list of parts. Thanks!

 

[ChevyGuy91]

this is a little random but does anyone here know of a MA legal "assault pistol" such as an AR or AK type?

Yes an assault pistol, with the way things are heading I want to make sure I can get something as evil as I can before they stop making them for ten years again. so any one know?

These are retarded posts to jam up a legit thread with.

To the OP, my simple carbine has a DD fixed rear sight, a short vertical fore grip and a sling. I have fancy rifles with shit hanging off of them in the safe, but I figured it was time for a lightweight carbine with no batteries or rails. In hindsight, I would have probably saved a lot of money if I had just started this way from the get go.

 

[gunslinger2a]

Keep it simple and mission specific. They can get heavy fast/

Learn to shoot with Irons...

 

[hy2rogen]

View attachment 59162

Looks like the AR from YouTube with those idiots with beards from GA.

 

[ptrainerchris]

+1 for learning irons first then upgrading later. You missed one of the benefits of the ar platform - simplicity

-1000 for trying to find a super killy assaulty evil pistol. The most dangerous pistol is the one you learned how to shoot well not which ones big brother told us is only for killing people and are about to get banned.

I bought a few "evil" guns in the past few months but nothing scares newbies like my s&w 686 with 6 inch barrel. No "assault" features other than people are afraid of it.

 

[Mr_Irritating]

To the few that remained on topic, thanks for your input.