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Military memorial rifle volley salute...lame?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MisterHappy, May 24, 2019.

  1. MisterHappy

    MisterHappy NES Member

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    On the 16 yard line, shootin' for the Lewis!
    So, on WCVB, they had a segment of the dedication of a panel for a fallen service member, complete with a Salute.

    Watch the video

    Boston soldier honored at memorial he co-founded

    OK, I'm not a vet, but....are those recorded reports and sounds of the actions being operated?

    I'm all in favor of the sentiment, but this particular one seems lame.

    Thoughts?
     

  2. Picton

    Picton NES Member

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    I doubt if it’s recorded. It’d be difficult to coordinate the audio all that precisely. But their D&C is disgraceful. I’d say their NCOIC should smoke their asses, except that he seems to be the worst offender.

    I strongly suspect only one of the men is shooting the blanks. That way it doesn’t sound as ragged as it looks. They’re all working the charging handles though.
     
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  3. Wildcard

    Wildcard NES Member

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    Definitely doesn't seem like a regular honor guard unit.
     
  4. ISOTOX

    ISOTOX NES Member

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    Bunch of knuckle heads....[halfmast]...its to bad the family and dead soldier deserved better.
     
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  5. Admin

    Admin Staff Member Administrator Moderator NES Member

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    RIP Eric... [halfmast]
     
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  6. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

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    Son did an Honor Guard stint. It was the best job he had in the military. They practiced a ton. Everyone was very didecared to being perfect at all times.
     
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  7. Penniepup1

    Penniepup1 NES Member

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    Ate up like soup sandwiches, that fallen soldier deserves more than that display.
     
  8. DeadEyeDan

    DeadEyeDan NES Member

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    My father’s service at Arlington National Cemetery last year was very impressive, they do it right! I thought all the young men in the honer guard took the duty very seriously and were very professional.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
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  9. whacko

    whacko

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    Ok guys.......this was not a funeral. I say again for emphasis.....this was not a funeral.

    Actual funerals get an honor guard detail. The Soldiers that do the funerals do the job full time and are well practiced at it. It's a VA benefit to have an honor guard at a funeral......its an expenditure of government resources to do so. You can't detail an actual honor guard unit for a memorial ceremony that was privately funded....because it's NOT A FUNERAL. Got it?

    Generally these types of memorial dedications and such get volunteers to go do them. The group here was probably hashed together from a few national guard or reserve troops like the day before. Cut them some slack.
     
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  10. ISOTOX

    ISOTOX NES Member

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    A matter of personal pride I guess....
     
  11. whacko

    whacko

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    That was not his funeral you know that right? He died last year.
     
  12. whacko

    whacko

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    Safe to say this detail was not an actual honor guard unit. This was not a funeral so was probably volunteers that were hashed together the day before.
     
  13. whacko

    whacko

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    Guaranteed it was not. This was not an actual funeral.
     
  14. namedpipes

    namedpipes

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    Modern memorials are a photograph pasted on a plastic panel? Or did I see that wrong?

    That's no better than the recorded salute.
     
  15. Picton

    Picton NES Member

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    Disagree.

    All funerals get a detail, but all random VA cemeteries DO NOT have some on-call unit of full-timers, sitting around shining their brass and waiting to execute funerals.

    When my grandmother passed, the local Reserve Center sent three young marine reservists to do the detail. The professionalism of those marines, at a humble ceremony with no TV cameras and led by an E-4, FAR surpassed that shown in the link above.

    No sergeant first class, doing any sort of detail, ought to perform as poorly as that one. I was really shocked to see the link. It’s why you rehearse these things.
     
  16. whacko

    whacko

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    What year was that funeral?

    Things have changed. Every state has a full time unit in the national guard for funeral details. They are on full time orders and are tasked with funeral details and practice daily.

    This event that was videod was not a funeral therefore It was not a funeral detail that was full time. Doing a 21 gun salute requires quite a bit of practice.....not something that can be thrown together last minute. These guys were probably volunteers that were put together quick and asked to do it...... as it was not an actual funeral. I actually feel bad for them if it was a lady minute thing......as having been done a last minute detail for a ceremony back when I was a a5 in the national guard.......trust me.....it sucks if you don't have time to practice.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  17. Picton

    Picton NES Member

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    I’ve done these details too. Plenty of them.

    It’s called following the command of execution. That’s why there’s a preparatory command. You raise the rifle at the same time everyone else does because you’re a professional who pays attention to detail. Or not.

    These were Marines in 2003, and the marines haven’t got a national guard. But all the same, if you’re saying every NG armory in the country has full-timers showing up every day and practicing funeral drill, I’m calling BS.
     
  18. whacko

    whacko

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    Not Every national guard armory has one.......its one unit at state headquarters that is full time about 20 total. They cover the whole state for funerals. The catch is that to dispatch a detail it has to be for a funeral that the person is entitled to burial honors only. They cannot be dispatched for memorial dedications and stuff like that because the funding is for funerals through the VA. That's why my very educated guess is that the soldiers in the video are volunteers that do not do d and c often.

    Call bs all you want.....but they have had that funding since about 2006. I had access to their property book for 2 years. Included a casket and everything...for practice. Mass national guard headquarters at hanscom afb.....first floor.... west wing..... there is a door to a large warehouse area with a placard that says "funeral honors detail". That's where they are headquartered and where they practice when not dispatched to do funerals.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  19. Picton

    Picton NES Member

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    All right.

    But if you’re telling me that some random USMC vet in, say, Chicopee who passes one day and requests burial in the local cemetery at government expense is going to rate full-time ARNG funeral support? Given the sheer number of vets who pass in a given week, I dispute that highly. I’d imagine it’s the same as it’s always been: funeral director calls local unit, local unit sends whomever. And I’m not sure the deceased would want it anyway, because the marines don’t have a national guard.

    Regardless, the link in the OP is far, far worse. A seven-man detail at a significant public ceremony needs to do better. It’s basic D&C. It’s following commands. It’s professionalism.
     
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  20. ISOTOX

    ISOTOX NES Member

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    So being dead for a year makes him less deserving......guys doing the salute were a bunch of jokers. You seem hell bent defending them...were you one of them?[hmmm]
     
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  21. whacko

    whacko

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    Never said he was less deserving. Just telling you guys what I know about how the system actually works in reality. Private funded memorial dedication service......your not getting a well trained detail that an actual funeral would get. It is about where the funding comes from and how it can be expended. This event was not a funeral so they got volunteers..... guaranteed. And more than likely they got voluntold. Been on many a "volunteer" detail in the guard that was more of an order than choice. No pay......no money or transportation to and from......no time to practice.....just "the town needs a 21 gun salute this weekend so get it done sergeant". Dont get me wrong these details are important and doing them is a great service.....but doing them with no time to prepare it just never works out too well and it's a shame. trust me they want to do the best job possible.....but with no heads up and no time to train ahead it's not easy.
    If either if you knuckle heads giving me a hard time about it spent any time in the national guard you'd understand. We trained for about the last 20 years one weekend a month to go to war.....and we went to war......12 drills a year there is no time for drill and ceremony training. So call them jokers of you want....they've probably served in Iraq and Afghanistan at least once each probably 2 times like most of us. You? How about you?


    And no..... I retired as a field grade officer would not have been on a drill and ceremony detail. However when I was an NCO in the national guard (I was 12 years enlisted).....there was very little time to train Soldiers on drill and ceremony.....it was about the lowest on the priority list. So if these guys were hashed together last minute they probably had little time to prepare. I'm not defending them as much as talking about how reality sometimes doesn't match the expectations due to....well.....reality.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  22. Mountain

    Mountain NES Member

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    The bigger story is what an awesome guy was this fallen Green Beret. Glad I saw this.

    Dad had the opportunity to be buried at Arlington but per his wishes was laid to rest in his small home town. Honor guard was provided by the local VFW post which my Grandfather had headed. I think most if not all of the guys were WWII vets and as I recall they did a fine job with their M1's. Even if they had messed up a little, anyone bitching about the job they did would have only been asked to STFU once.
     
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  23. whacko

    whacko

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    This! Amen brother.
     
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  24. Picton

    Picton NES Member

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    I’m sorry you feel that way. Because no, that’s the LAST thing this is about.

    And I reject wholeheartedly the idea that NG soldiers automatically get a pass on their D&C. I was in the Guard too, before I went active, and in either component there’s good leadership and poor leadership. Good leaders make good units, and good units follow their TLPs and perform to standard.
     
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  25. whacko

    whacko

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    What years were you national guard?
     
  26. Picton

    Picton NES Member

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    ‘94-‘97.

    My NCOs hammered D&C, even though we were an FO unit.

    ETA: I see where this is going, and I’m not interested in a pissing contest. But you’re making excuses for unacceptably poor performance. Unless you think that drill was done to standard. Either way, I’m not likely to agree with you.
     
  27. whacko

    whacko

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    Ah the good old times....before 9-11. When you went to active duty......did you stick around long enough to deploy to a combat theater?

    Let men provide you with this little scenario

    Your the commander, first sergeant, PL or PSG in a company. Your deploying to Afghanistan in 13 months. You have 12 weekends.....and a single 3 week AT (they are nice enough to give you 7 extra days because your "on the bubble") to train your Soldiers in 185 individual and collective tasks. That's not a joke man....185 individual ans collective tasks in 12 weekend's and 3 weeks of at. Those 185 tasks your responsible for signing your name to that every Soldier under your command or control is trained on. Those tasks will ensure your Soldiers will be able to fight, survive, and win in combat. Know how many of those 185 tasks are related to a 21 gun salute? You got it....0!

    Now....your activated for 14 months (2 months at mob sight then 12 in theater) and do 0 d and c. You return and get a 90 day furlough (cuz you f***ing deserve it) and then get 12 drills to "reset".......equipment and personal resiliency......and get ready to do it again. I didn't give a single flying f*** about d and c when I was an e5 during my first deployment......or as a 1LT on my second deployment......or as a company commander for 4.5 years getting a unit to to stay on standard as a "force readiness unit" that was to be on call to deploy in 90 day notice.....and my company was ready.
    ...those 185 tasks were constantly retrained.

    Does skipping d and c as a national guard leader to train combat readiness drills mean we were bad leaders in your eyes? Don't know why I'm actually asking you.....cuz I really don't give a flying f*** what you think. But hey.....back in 97 you could "dress right dress" spectacularly.......so you got that going for you.

    If ADMIN wants to put me in a "time out" for my personal rant.....is what it is. I won't sit back and accept someone telling me I served with bad leadership because they we didn't know how to do a 21 gun salute on a moment's notice.....after deploying to combat for 2 and a half years of my life and doing my duty.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  28. Picton

    Picton NES Member

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    Classless. The first two paragraphs were more than enough.

    I’ve got nothing further to say to you.
     
  29. whacko

    whacko

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    that actually makes my day.
     
  30. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    There's no reason to get nasty when the reality is, without the ad-hom etc, stuff going on, I would wager a fair guess that you guys would agree more than disagree over a beer summit.

    To me (a non military guy) this sounds more like an end result of skinflinting with the DOD. Things like the army have enough resources to put together a band for a football game or whatever, but for some seemingly
    bizzare reason there's not any resources for these kind of things. I would like to think the anger here in this thread is more focused on DOD dysfunction" than finger pointing about sloppy leadership. Hell every good guy
    I know that got out, left in part because of the red tape circus with the DOD. Honestly I see/hear stuff like this and I think its a travesty; there are people that should have stayed in but the "shit pressure" of DOD retardation
    got too great to bear.... and nobody ever wants to fix it becuase of the can kicking mentality and self-selection of bad leadership at higher/back end levels. Seemingly 9 out of 10 times most of the REMFs/brass tacks end up being politicians that happen to have military rank (but they act like pols in congress etc. ) Some of the stuff I hear from my friends that are still in is mind numbing. It's like we set up a fighting force and the forces are always spending a third of their energy fighting the" bureaucratic lard" of the system.

    Just my .02 (non military, but understanding) cents.

    -Mike
     

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