Massachusetts suing EPA over wood burning stoves

[milktree]

Yeah, the feds will go to every remote village in Alaska and remove their only source of heat in the middle of winter (which is pretty much 10 months a year depending on location).

I don’t think so, commie.

What kind of American in their right mind would even try to enforce this?!

Again: did you even read the article?

There’s nothing in the lawsuit about owners or purchasers. It’s about taxpayer money being used to subsidize the purchase of new stoves with the understanding/ agreement/ requirement that they’d reduce particulate emissions, but the the specs and testing and enforcement on the manufacturers were insufficient.

This is as much about money as anything else.

 

[neum69]

They want to shut down the ability for anyone to be independent from the power grid.

That doesn’t exactly add up. Because they are also pushing solar on every home, which IS independence from the grid.

 

[pastera]

That doesn’t exactly add up. Because they are also pushing solar on every home, which IS independence from the grid.

Not if they require it to be grid tie only.

 

[neum69]

Not if they require it to be grid tie only.

They don’t. You need to tie to the grid to sell back your excess but there is nothing to prevent you getting an inverter and batteries.

 

[pastera]

They don’t. You need to tie to the grid to sell back your excess but there is nothing to prevent you getting an inverter and batteries.

Yes you can but you don't get most of the tax rebates and incentives.
And solar simply won't heat your home unless you have massively invested in a net zero home.
In the north east you might get a reliable 20-30kwh/day from a 10k array.
Even with a heat pump operating at a cop of 3 that's only 300kbtu or about three gallons of oil. And that's when the weather is good.

 

[neum69]

Yes you can but you don't get most of the tax rebates and incentives.
And solar simply won't heat your home unless you have massively invested in a net zero home.
In the north east you might get a reliable 20-30kwh/day from a 10k array.
Even with a heat pump operating at a cop of 3 that's only 300kbtu or about three gallons of oil. And that's when the weather is good.

Uh, what rebates would you not get? Agreed on the heating though. I guess maybe electric pumps driving geothermal heat would have a chance. Expensive to get into initially. But…NO PARTICULATES!

 

[pastera]

Uh, what rebates would you not get? Agreed on the heating though. I guess maybe electric pumps driving geothermal heat would have a chance. Expensive to get into initially. But…NO PARTICULATES!

My system is grid tied, if I had installed any part that allowed off grid use or a battery i would have lost the following
Mass tax rebate: $4500
TMLP: $1k
SREC II Payments: ~20k over 10 years
Mass Solar Loan: low interest with a 10-20% principle buy down ($7500)

So I didn't go with an off grid system since with electricity savings and SRECs my system 100% paid for itself in 4 years.

 

[neum69]

My system is grid tied, if I had installed any part that allowed off grid use or a battery i would have lost the following
Mass tax rebate: $4500
TMLP: $1k
SREC II Payments: ~20k over 10 years
Mass Solar Loan: low interest with a 10-20% principle buy down ($7500)

So I didn't go with an off grid system since with electricity savings and SRECs my system 100% paid for itself in 4 years.

Curious. How would they know?

 

[Tartakovsky]

This is the answer.

No, they want to shut down the ability for anyone to be independent, period. They want everyone dependent on the government.

 

[pastera]

Curious. How would they know?

The system plan is submitted for acceptance into the SREC system, once accepted you build it. The system then gets inspected by the electrical inspector, the fire department and the power company for compliance
I would need to reinstall off grid components after the system went online to 'cheat'

 

[Horatio_Alger_Jr]

No, they want to shut down the ability for anyone to be independent, period. They want everyone dependent on the government.

Yes. That is what was said. They want you to have to be on the grid for everything, because that is the easiest for them to control.

 

[fishgutzy]

Yeah, the feds will go to every remote village in Alaska and remove their only source of heat in the middle of winter (which is pretty much 10 months a year depending on location).

I don’t think so, commie.

What kind of American in their right mind would even try to enforce this?!

City dwellers are ruling based on the premise that everyone must be forced to live as city dwellers do. City Dwellers are happy to surrender their own liberty in exchange for the promise of safety and security without ever accepting the fact that the rules they push make them less safe, less secure, and still much less free.
These city dwellers, inflicting their will on everyone else do not want anyone living outside defines city zones unless they are licensed or prove they are producing food for the city dwellers. Oregon has a version of this already. And we all know how much a dump they turned Portland into.
So yes, the city dwelling rulers will send armed storm troopers to remove all wood burning stoves from indigenous Alaskans in order to force them into cities and on welfare, under the control of the state.

 

[Toast]

It's literally right in the article that it's about particulate emissions. Efficiency isn't mentioned anywhere.

I get that it's cool and all to think everything is a conspiracy to control every aspect of everything anyone does; and sometimes it is a deliberate conspiracy (e.g.: gun laws like the current MA abomination), but this doesn't meet that standard. I don't usually think of Alaska as being a "live under the thumb of the state" kind of place, yet they signed on to this. And in this case, the states are suing because the EPA isn't doing their job.

As I said, bless your heart. This time with your interpretation.

 

[71montess]

As I said, bless your heart. This time with your interpretation.

My son moved to NC a few years ago. He told me when someone says " well bless your heart" about something, their saying your a fN idiot.

 

[milktree]

No, they want to shut down the ability for anyone to be independent, period. They want everyone dependent on the government.

I dunno, "subsidizing new wood stoves" doesn't really fall into "dependent on the grid" Nor does pushing solar. Even if you don't get all the tax brakes, solar still makes you more independent. All the solar pushing makes being off-grid even cheaper and easier as the tech keeps advancing.

And the push to use less is *also* pushing for individual independence. It's much easier to be off-grid if your house is efficient.

Now, if they were pushing for nuclear only, grid only, and against solar or wind, it would be different; but that's not what's going on.

 

[BJones]

That doesn’t exactly add up. Because they are also pushing solar on every home, which IS independence from the grid.

I'd not call solar as independence from anything, just a lightly concealed dependency on financing, electronics and installation shit. You are independent on a sunny day while shit works and batteries are new and converter hasn't shit the bed.

 

[milktree]

I'd not call solar as independence from anything, just a lightly concealed dependency on financing, electronics and installation shit. You are independent on a sunny day while shit works and batteries are new and converter hasn't shit the bed.

Yea, but that describes "electricity". Even if you run your own generator you have that problem. Modern generators are filled with electronic controllers.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

As a person who's never used a pellet stove, what do you hate about it?

It’s dirty and creates a lot of dust. Frequent cleaning and maintenance is required. You can’t use it without power. Finally the pellet bags are 40lbs. I’m an hour from town si have to get them 1/2 ton at a time. Hefting those when I’m 70 years old is not what I want especially since I have 70 acres of trees.

And it’s dirty, noisy and a PITA.

 

[MAGA99]

It’s dirty and creates a lot of dust. Frequent cleaning and maintenance is required. You can’t use it without power. Finally the pellet bags are 40lbs. I’m an hour from town si have to get them 1/2 ton at a time. Hefting those when I’m 70 years old is not what I want especially since I have 70 acres of trees.

And it’s dirty, noisy and a PITA.

If you had a one ton truck you could get them a ton at a time!! I have a harmon and barely clean it, it’s a tank.

I love mine, just set it and forget it. It’s either carry wood in or bags of pellets in.

 

[pastera]

If you had a one ton truck you could get them a ton at a time!! I have a harmon and barely clean it, it’s a tank.

I love mine, just set it and forget it. It’s either carry wood in or bags of pellets in.

I've found that the amount of time spent tending a pellet stove is inversely proportional to the savings.
Cheap pellets - lots of savings but daily attention
Super premium soft wood pellets - once a week attention past filling but almost the cost of oil.

 

[SS1]

Like everything else the marxist do,
It's about regulating it out of existence
Take a look at NYC
And making you more dependent on the Guberment ....