Massachusetts Rifle Association - Woburn, MA

[MSant]

It has been much experience that putting that much time in on a volunteer basis has benefits that often are not talked about. Often further reduced dues or getting things done that interest you. Rarely is that much labor done from the. Kindness of ones heart

 

[milktree]

I've been a member long enough and know most of "The Elite" aka the BOD well enough to know that they each put in 40-50 hrs per month serving the club membership. Get yourself elected to the BOD or volunteer enough time in a capacity that warrants having wi-fi access and you too can be "Elite".

The officers /BoD are not employees, they're volunteers. Volunteers don't get special treatment, there's no compensation.

If you can't handle being a volunteer without special treatment, you have every right to resign and stop volunteering.

But it's offensive to suggest that something unrelated to the administration of a volunteer's duties should be restricted to only them.

It's not *their* club, the club belongs to *all* its members.

 

[SkuaSeptember]

It has been much experience that putting that much time in on a volunteer basis has benefits that often are not talked about. Often further reduced dues or getting things done that interest you. Rarely is that much labor done from the. Kindness of ones heart

Yup, any organization that relies heavily on volunteers tries to throw in a few perks. At the NE Aquarium I got a free family membership after a year of service. As a Scout Leader the troop picked up my registration fee. The BOD members probably don't pay the whopping $170 yearly membership fee. Big Fat Hairy Deal!
Most volunteering isn't done out of kindness, it's done for a sense of personal satisfaction.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Get yourself elected to the BOD or volunteer enough time in a capacity that warrants having wi-fi access and you too can be "Elite".

This is a total non-sequitur. The club has a resource; the member wishes to use it; the leadership of a membership based club said nope. This is different relationship that at a country club (for commercial entity like MFS where there are "owners" and "members" and, despite the "club" name, it's strictly a vendor/purchaser relationship.

Yup, any organization that relies heavily on volunteers tries to throw in a few perks.

Yup, but the real question posed is why aren't members allowed to use a club resource that would not cost the club a cent to open up?

Certain perks of leadership are unavoidable - for example, the convenience of having keys to the storerooms and to the front door in case the electronic access breaks. There are valid reasons it is both necessary to grant these perks to members of the club leadership and not grant them to the membership at large.

I suspect that the "not for our members" stems for a combination of an us/them attitude as well as a overly cautious concern about mis-use of the club's internet connection. Another risk I forgot to mention was an RIAA suit.

 

[SkuaSeptember]

I respect people who put time and effort into something that they care about, and I'm sure the club's facilities reflect that effort.
But giving special privileges to the "elite", I think, has spawned some of the ill will I read in this thread. I'm sure other club BODs /volunteers have just as much dedication to their own clubs, but their attitudes don't seem to illicit such frustration from their members.

I am not a member of MRA, but am considering applying. I'm just trying to get a sense of the place by reading this thread. There seem to be mostly content members, but also a sense of frustration among others.

As someone willing to learn about a club, I'll keep open ears and an open mind.

Glad you're genuinely interested in making an informed decision!

It boggles the mind that so many people on the forum believe that there is a wealth of "Special Privileges" to be had! Coffee? A shirt? A.C. in the office? Wi-fi? Not all that special... I've seen no
evidence of an executive spa, but I'll keep looking ;-)

It's the BOD members and frequent volunteers who are usually taking out the trash, replacing air filters and shot out lights, repairing the carriers, showing up for work days, organizing matches, teaching the safety classes, answering alarm calls and making sure the lights stay on.

Come on by and check out the club for yourself rather than reading the gripes of folks that believe they must be getting the short end of the stick.

 

[SkuaSeptember]

This is a total non-sequitur. The club has a resource; the member wishes to use it; the leadership of a membership based club said nope.
......
Yup, but the real question posed is why aren't members allowed to use a club resource that would not cost the club a cent to open up?

It would seem then that a member unhappy with current policy should make their case at a board meeting with a proposed solution that would address any cost, security and liability issues. If they can't sway the board they always have the option of running for the board and effecting change from within. If enough people actually care about the issue, the change will happen.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Great contribution.

Although I'm a member and some of their bullshit rules constantly irritate me, I don't post in threads in which I'm not a member of.

 

[drgrant]

I respect people who put time and effort into something that they care about, and I'm sure the club's facilities reflect that effort.
But giving special privileges to the "elite", I think, has spawned some of the ill will I read in this thread. I'm sure other club BODs /volunteers have just as much dedication to their own clubs, but their attitudes don't seem to illicit such frustration from their members.

I am not a member of MRA, but am considering applying. I'm just trying to get a sense of the place by reading this thread. There seem to be mostly content members, but also a sense of frustration among others.

As someone willing to learn about a club, I'll keep open ears and an open mind.

Hell will freeze over before the culture at MRA changes. Read the rules, see if you can deal with what they offer, if your needs don't fit into their "box", I would suggest looking elsewhere. There are plenty of alternatives.

-Mike

 

[doctorbossman]

I've seen no
evidence of an executive spa, but I'll keep looking ;-)

ha. now that would be a new kind of shooting club.


Has the BOD ever explained their reasoning for limiting wifi access? I'm sure most technical issues would be easily overcome.


But just not sharing a resource like wifi is a concern as to how the BOD views their members. I want to join a club whose officers so love their club they want to share it... Not one whose officers see their members as a revenue stream that they need to tolerate.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If enough people actually care about the issue, the change will happen.

Yup.

I remember a time at Hopkinton Sportsmens when people looked at you funny if you thought a handgun was loaded and put in a holster; loading more than 5 rounds in a gun was forbidden; lead ammo only on the indoor range, and concealed carry on club property was prohibited. Some of us got involved, did the work, and not only is that all gone, but the practical pistol ranges are one of the biggest draws of the club and the USPSA Program is not only active, but has the respect of the clubs leadership. The club president's priority in making decisions is simple - how can the club best serve the members?

I remember when the indoor range at Southboro was during clubhouse hours only. I've heard that they have improved and it's on a card key system for members, so there is a second club that has improved.

Things can and do change if people work to make that happen.

But just not sharing a resource like wifi is a concern as to how the BOD views their members.

As an outsider, the reports I have heard are "tough, we considered, the answer is no" rather than "we decided no because we were concerned about a, b and c". There is a big difference between a reasoned explanation (even one you may not agree with) and an answer of "we have the power and you do not, leave if you don't like it".

 

[Stef]

So, we have someone get butt hurt over wifi access? Paid your own mifi. If you can't afford your own mifi, you can't afford to pay for club dues too.

Want free wifi, go to starbuck, panera bread, McDonald or town library. You can also park @ the Toyota dealer service area to get free wifi.

The point sailed so far over your head you probably won't even spot the chemtrails...

Sent from my Tinfoil hat

Blessed irony.

 

[TonyDedo]

The greater issue with the MRA is not about specific amenity or privileged, but rather it's about the perception of an "elite" (as it's been described by others here on the forum) class of members who appear to receive "special privileges," and a static board with an entrenched culture that does not seem to be responsive to or care about member inquiries and requests.

I cannot make specific accusations of "special privileges" because I have no "proof," of said privileges, nor do I intend to play Sherlock Holmes. If you look a few pages back in this thread, you'll see that recently members of the club (and of the board) attempted to institute change and made specific accusations, and they were kicked out of the club for their efforts. However, the perception of "special privileges" is so widespread that I think merely the perception is an issue, regardless of how true it actually is.

Furthermore, I can share my own experiences with the board and the culture at the MRA. In my earlier years as a member of the MRA, I was very enthusiastic about being involved and contributing to the club. I volunteered to help teach classes, induct new members, organize events, etc, etc. Every time I offered my services, the response was in no unclear terms, "No." I was told I could show up on Work Day and help rebuild the back stop and rake leaves, otherwise it was made clear that my involvement was not wanted.

These days I don't have the time to be as involved as I once wanted to, nor do I have the inclination anymore. That's a shame, because I know others feel the same way I do, and I think it could be a much better club if more members were involved.

I also recognize that members of the board and others volunteer a substantial number of hours at the club, and that certain access and responsibility that can be seen as "perks" are going to come naturally. Personally, I've been advocating for years that we compensate these volunteers monetarily, or better yet, hire a professional or two to serve as employees of the club, but my suggestions have been shot down without consideration or discussion. The response is always "we don't do that, end of discussion."

And therein sums up the MRA.

And some members couldn't care less - they tolerate the rules because the club's facilities and location are superior to most clubs in the area. The come, they shoot, they leave. And to others (like myself) it's bothersome because I recognize the club's potential and wish the culture was better, but not to the point where I want to or am able to do anything about it. Others have tried to do something about it, and failed miserably. And so the problem persists. As Mike said, hell will probably freeze over before anything changes.

 

[Massman]

Great contribution.

Although I'm a member and some of their bullshit rules constantly irritate me, I don't post in threads in which I'm not a member of.

 

[T Dog]

It would seem then that a member unhappy with current policy should make their case at a board meeting with a proposed solution that would address any cost, security and liability issues. If they can't sway the board they always have the option of running for the board and effecting change from within. If enough people actually care about the issue, the change will happen.

When this issue was first brought up (at the club, not here) it was sent to the technology committee to determine whether there was a way to balance any security and privacy concerns with some form of WiFi access. Interestingly enough, the members who serve on that committee generally are employed in the tech field and, while they agreed to look into it, have work and other commitments (some of which I am familiar with but will not share on a public forum) as well as this being an appropriate time for summer vacations. This matter, unlike a safety concern, was not considered a priority of the first order at the time and nothing I see here would seem to indicate otherwise.

If there are other tech-savy MRA members who would like to volunteer to step up and work with the committee on this issue, please do so. The office is open on Sunday mornings and Wednesday evenings. You can also put something on the agenda for the next Board of Directors meeting (if you haven't resolved the issue or are not already on your way to resolving it by then).

 

[warwickben]

Great contribution.

Although I'm a member and some of their bullshit rules constantly irritate me, I don't post in threads in which I'm not a member of.

Have they fixed your fob yet , or are they still telling you to come in a different day to get it fixed.

The fact they kept telling you to come back next week to get it fixed for months! Put me off to joining. I need to join a real club and there so close to me. ,

 

[Billsail]

This issue becomes more and more important as we transition to an internet only means of legally transferring firearms, besides a costly and PIA, FFL transfer

 

[MSant]

I joined recently because the facilities are nice. If the politics become annoying I have no issue with lasting a membership and joining elsewhere

 

[LADYCLAY]

When this issue was first brought up (at the club, not here) it was sent to the technology committee to determine whether there was a way to balance any security and privacy concerns with some form of WiFi access. Interestingly enough, the members who serve on that committee generally are employed in the tech field and, while they agreed to look into it, have work and other commitments (some of which I am familiar with but will not share on a public forum) as well as this being an appropriate time for summer vacations. This matter, unlike a safety concern, was not considered a priority of the first order at the time and nothing I see here would seem to indicate otherwise.

If there are other tech-savy MRA members who would like to volunteer to step up and work with the committee on this issue, please do so. The office is open on Sunday mornings and Wednesday evenings. You can also put something on the agenda for the next Board of Directors meeting (if you haven't resolved the issue or are not already on your way to resolving it by then).

I would just like to point out that this discussion is based on an answer to a question posed to the club president (see TonyDedo's post #1481, "I've been told its for 'office use only.' That was from the club president"). It is very disingenous for you to now comment without identifying yourself. A number of us know who you are but some do not. You are not an impartial bystander.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Have they fixed your fob yet , or are they still telling you to come in a different day to get it fixed.

The fact they kept telling you to come back next week to get it fixed for months! Put me off to joining. I need to join a real club and there so close to me. ,

No idea. I'm at my NH place for 2 weeks. Text me.

 

[milktree]

I would just like to point out that this discussion is based on an answer to a question posed to the club president (see TonyDedo's post #1481, "I've been told its for 'office use only.' That was from the club president"). It is very disingenous for you to now comment without identifying yourself. A number of us know who you are but some do not. You are not an impartial bystander.

So.. um... Please forgive me if I should recognize your username, but I don't. Who are you? Are you impartial? (I don't think *anyone* can be truly impartial)

 

[A1850]

no internet access at the club and now the website is down!?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

while they agreed to look into it, have work and other commitments

OK, I'll save the tech committee the burden of spending a lot of time on analysis:

1. If the club just opens up wifi on its router, it is subject to risk of persons who connect being able to access any systems on the club network (computers, card key, video, etc. - whatever is connected)

2. If the router has a segregated "guest" function, or if the club plugs a second NAT translation router into one of the hardwired ports on the router (or a switch connected the router if there is a port shortage) and leaves that one unsecured for member access, the ability to access club systems (except those exposed to the internet at large) is practically nil.

3. The club is still exposed to the risk of criminal activity on its network, however, cooperation with any investigating agencies should resolve that since the open nature of the system will be very easy to prove.

4. The other risk is an RIAA suit or similar, however, those don't seem to be happening these days.

Analysis done. Did I miss anything?

 

[MSant]

Internet or not I am heading up to shoot shortly if anybody wants to keep me company

 

[milktree]

OK, I'll save the tech committee the burden of spending a lot of time on analysis:

1. If the club just opens up wifi on its router, it is subject to risk of persons who connect being able to access any systems on the club network (computers, card key, video, etc. - whatever is connected)

2. If the router has a segregated "guest" function, or if the club plugs a second NAT translation router into one of the hardwired ports on the router (or a switch connected the router if there is a port shortage) and leaves that one unsecured for member access, the ability to access club systems (except those exposed to the internet at large) is practically nil.

3. The club is still exposed to the risk of criminal activity on its network, however, cooperation with any investigating agencies should resolve that since the open nature of the system will be very easy to prove.

4. The other risk is an RIAA suit or similar, however, those don't seem to be happening these days.

Analysis done. Did I miss anything?

Nope. I've been doing this stuff for over a decade; I'd tell any client the same thing.

I don't think the RIAA has ever cared about one off illegal downloads, they cared about people downloading *lots*. Doing that is impractical over Wifi someplace you can't leave a computer running. Someone hanging out in the parking lot or inside the clubhouse (in the case of a member) will be pretty obvious, and show up on the cameras.

The risk factor is really small, because there's not a lot of reason to use the club's WiFi instead of Starbucks' or any of the 100s of other places that offer it. None of those places worry about it, with good reason.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

None of those places worry about it, with good reason.

But, those places can afford to tell RIAA "We have hundreds of stores and will not let them become RIAA targets. Prepare for trial, we will be ready".

Also, I think the big risk of suits comes when you start running a PTP sharing node.

 

[TonyDedo]

First, I need to correct what I said earlier. I looked back at my records, and the response "wifi is for office use only" came from the Treasurer, not the President. I also reached out to the President at the same time, and he said, "I'll look into this and get back to you," but he never did, non did he respond to my follow up inquiries. I also contacted other board members and received no response at all.

I should also point out that my above mentioned interaction with the board members happened a couple years ago, and the follow up conversation I referenced with the office was last year, so it's not like this is something that came up a couple months ago and they're actively working on it.

When this issue was first brought up (at the club, not here) it was sent to the technology committee to determine whether there was a way to balance any security and privacy concerns with some form of WiFi access. Interestingly enough, the members who serve on that committee generally are employed in the tech field and, while they agreed to look into it, have work and other commitments (some of which I am familiar with but will not share on a public forum) as well as this being an appropriate time for summer vacations. This matter, unlike a safety concern, was not considered a priority of the first order at the time and nothing I see here would seem to indicate otherwise.

If there are other tech-savy MRA members who would like to volunteer to step up and work with the committee on this issue, please do so. The office is open on Sunday mornings and Wednesday evenings. You can also put something on the agenda for the next Board of Directors meeting (if you haven't resolved the issue or are not already on your way to resolving it by then).

I don't know who "T Dog" is, but this post is a perfect example of the attitude I referred to earlier. His response is not, "This is a good idea and something we're working on," or "this is something we'd like to do for the membership," or even, "We tried but we can't for the following reasons."

Instead, T Dog reminds us how smart the members of the committee are, how busy they are, and how the request is not a priority. It's rude and condescending, and I don't know if T Dog is a board member or just one of the good ol' boys, but it sums up the way the board treats the membership at the MRA quite well.

 

[Massman]

Bingo.
The membership pays for everything at the club with their dues. Access should be given, to the members who request it. If it is financial information, or membership information that needs to be protected, isolate a computer that is used for this purpose with no network, or sharing capablities. I believe this would be called a "mechanical firewall", but I may be wrong in my terminology.
Remember that the membership/ dues run a club. No dues/members, No club.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Anyone go today? Is it busy?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I believe this would be called a "mechanical firewall"

"Air Gap".

 

[mursenary4]

Anyone go today? Is it busy?

just got back. relatively busy. 4 people on mclaughlin, loeb about 1/2 full and 1-2 people at pope while i was there. had a miserable day trying to sight in a sightmark red dot. i have never had trouble sighting in an optic. after 50 rounds with this thing and barely on paper i just gave up. should have bought an eotech...