Manslaughter charges filed after kill shot fired 8 minutes post invasion. Wild story out of chesterfield MA.

Where was the first shot? He could have been doing the guy a favor depending on where he was bleeding out from
 
drgrant said:
OJ got lucky because the state was grossly incompetent and negligent in multiple aspects of its investigation and prosecution, and he had good enough attorneys to put that stuff in a
cuisinart and present reasonable doubt.

By constitutional design the state is only supposed to get one shot. They took their shot and they f***ed it up.

Even if I was on that Jury I still would have acquitted him given that reality, while simultaneously hoping he got hit by a car on the way out of the courthouse.
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That may be. But you're making my point.
 
appraiser said:
so the lesson here is once you decide that you are going to shoot, shoot to stop the threat, make sure you get the job done by repeated pulling of the trigger, but don't empty the mag because it doesn't look good
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That doesn't necessarily mean anything either, mag dumps by cops and defenders is a pretty normal thing and something you can back up with an expert witness. Particularly if its fast
enough, Particularly if the person was still attacking even after the defensive shooting started. Hell its possible for someone to dump half a magazine of rounds inside of one OODA loop cycle.
 
There was a case some years ago where a pharmacist was robbed. He defended himself against the two robbers.

He shot the first guy and chased away the second guy. He was OK until then. But then went back behind the counter, grabbed a different gun, and put more bullets in the already disabled robber.

Pharmacist got life IIRC...

Damn video surveillance!


 
ThePreBanMan said:
That may be. But you're making my point.
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Anyone can get that though, not just "people with tons of money". Plenty of people have walked because a smart public defender even found some glaringly obvious damning thing against the state or its prosecution of someone. There are a myriad of mistakes that can be made. Sure OJ had increased the odds in his favor because the attorneys were able to excavate these things in bulk, but the prosecution of OJ was a 110% clown show from top to bottom, to the point where a kid just out of Harvard Law would have probably been able to get him off. [rofl]
 
drgrant said:
but the prosecution of OJ was a 110% clown show from top to bottom, to the point where a kid just out of Harvard Law would have probably been able to get him off. [rofl]
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OJ wasted a ton of money on lawyers, and he had too many chiefs. But the experts were necessary and expensive, no doubt.
 
M1911 said:
But if he perp wasn't armed, that would be a tall order to win in court.
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100% and the jury is everything. MA is full of pillow biters so.

Hopefully we will see some more detail as to why there was a 2nd shot 8 mins later. The details we have are simply the BG was down and 8.5 mins later there is a shot to his head. I'll reserve judgement when the full details are released.

I'm in the camp of "Don't want to end up worm food? Don't home invade"
 
He was released on $10,000 cash bail with the conditions that he surrender his firearms permits and all of his personal firearms. He is also not allowed in the presence of firearms any time before trial.
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He has a loophole now, guy legally needs to run if the police come to get him. He is not allowed in the presence of firearms :rolleyes:

According to Gagne, while Letendre was not known to Camp at the time of the shooting, Camp’s girlfriend had worked for and had a brief relationship with him earlier in the year. Prosecutors believe that that relationship was why Letendre came to the house that night.
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The girlfriend’s two young daughters were asleep in another room and were not involved or injured in the incident.
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Just think. If he was not dating a single mother that was ....possibly.... cheating on him this would not have happened to him


I will give my wild guess.
He shoots guy
guy is pleading for his life
Guy says he has been F'ing his g/f
he puts him out
 
CATI said:
He has a loophole now, guy legally needs to run if the police come to get him. He is not allowed in the presence of firearms :rolleyes:



Just think. If he was not dating a single mother that was ....possibly.... cheating on him this would not have happened to him


I will give my wild guess.
He shoots guy
guy is pleading for his life
Guy says he has been F'ing his g/f
he puts him out
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I don't know that someone pleading for their life would advertise they've been feeding their slim jim to his bitch... That doesn't compute.

Hey don't shoot me. Oh, by the way I've been boning your biach... How you like me now?
 
ThePreBanMan said:
I don't know that someone pleading for their life would advertise they've been feeding their slim jim to his bitch... That doesn't compute.
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Realistic reenactment

Gets shot, crawling away
S - Why are you in my house!!! Why shouldn't I kill you
R - I know blank... We were having a relationship.. She is still texting me
S - Huh?! When
R - Last year
S - Damn that is when we were dating and I am taking care of her children from at least one other dude
R - damn you got cucked
S - (execution)
 
M1911 said:
I understand your viewpoint and I can't say that I disagree with it from a moral and ethical point of view. But that's not in accordance with the law in most states.
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exactly, which is just one more point to be made in support of defunding law enforcement. The law, for the most part, had evolved into nothing more than instrument for government control of the citizenry. At one time you could have argued the case that laws existed to ensure justice for all. That ship sailed and sunk two, maybe three, decades ago in large part when the ACLU began advocating for the rights of criminals.

Let the cops go home. Criminals will keep killing and assaulting people as the law has become no real deterrent to them, but then the death count will surely rise for a while as the right people begin to die, and then it will go down. Life will be good.
 
M1911 said:
The perp was apparently face down, bleeding out on the floor. Deadly force is not legally justified unless you are in immediate threat of death or grave bodily injury. It's pretty hard to argue that you are in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury when you shoot someone in the back of the head while they are on the floor bleeding out.

Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy for the deceased. But I think Mr. Camp's defense attorney is going to have a very hard time keeping him out of jail.

In the unlikely even that someone invades my house, I want to win both battles -- the one at the scene and the one in the courtroom. I'd rather not spend my retirement years rotting in prison.
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so you'll have to get two or three friends to get him on his feet again so you can shoot him in the front of the head.
 
Lots of people think that they can just make up a BS story because they are smarter than the police. They mostly end up in prison.


ThePreBanMan said:
I think he will have very good luck with it...

"I didn't want to shoot him again. He did initially stop after the first shot. I kept my weapon trained on him and observed, waiting for law enforcement to arrive, which was not prompt. But when he said he was going to shoot me and made a motion to reach for a weapon, what choice did I have? What choice would you have had in the same situation?"

Case closed.
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Garys said:
Lots of people think that they can just make up a BS story because they are smarter than the police. They mostly end up in prison.
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I'm not suggesting he make up anything. I'm suggesting that he follow his lawyers advice based on actual events. My comments are to state that there are many plausible cases where a shot 8 minutes after the first would be justified.

Furthermore I would never Advocate anyone tell the police anything. Save it for the courtroom. You know, that whole anything you say can and will be used against you thing. Talking to the police will never help you, but it sure is s*** can harm you. So with nothing to win and everything to lose, the question becomes why. And the answer is, never talk to the police, even if you're innocent, especially if you're innocent. There are many and innocent man in jail right now, because they open their trap when questioned by police.
 
CATI said:
Realistic reenactment

Gets shot, crawling away
S - Why are you in my house!!! Why shouldn't I kill you
R - I know blank... We were having a relationship.. She is still texting me
S - Huh?! When
R - Last year
S - Damn that is when we were dating and I am taking care of her children from at least one other dude
R - damn you got cucked
S - (execution)
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Yeah I don't know about that. And the situation you describe the shooter's beef would be with the b**** not with the dude bleeding out on the floor.
 
ThePreBanMan said:
Ok... Tell that to OJ, who literally bought his way off a murder rap. If you have enough money for lawyers.... you can burn down the white house and get away with it in this country. All it costs is money.
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I agree that OJ got off. But that is a rarity. Nothing about that trial was typical. Very few have the kind of money OJ had to spend on attorneys.

I attended a seminar given by a couple criminal defense attorneys in MA. Both had previously been prosecutors. Both said that one thing you should never do after a deadly force incident is lie to the police. They said your lie will be discovered and then your credibility is gone.
 
M1911 said:
I agree that OJ got off. But that is a rarity. Nothing about that trial was typical. Very few have the kind of money OJ had to spend on attorneys.

I attended a seminar given by a couple criminal defense attorneys in MA. Both had previously been prosecutors. Both said that one thing you should never do after a deadly force incident is lie to the police. They said your lie will be discovered and then your credibility is gone.
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I'm not suggesting he lie to the police. I'm not suggesting anything other than the fact that he shouldn't even talk to the police. His only testimony should be given in the courtroom, and only after legal consultation and extensive legal coaching.

It is not lost on me, that the police are very well trained at getting you jammed up, even if you're innocent. Even the most well-versed and well-trained in both police tactics and legal procedures can get jammed up when being questioned by the police after a high stress event. Talking to them cannot help and can only hurt. So why do it?
 
Dadstoys said:
Other than the fact the guy was shot twice , everything else is speculation.
A single pistol shot isn't always even close to a K.O. many times so who knows how frisky this guy may have still been.
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An autopsy, plus whatever blood evidence there's likely to be on the floor, is likely to give the prosecution a VERY convincing story that this guy wasn't all that frisky at that point.

You're right that it's speculation HERE. Now. By the time it reaches the courtroom, it won't be speculation. It'll be conclusions based on evidence. I don't trust detectives either, but if I were a juror, you'd have a hard time convincing me a coup-de-grace in the back of the head after eight minutes of bleeding was the homeowner's only reasonable course of action. Or even his most reasonable course of action.

Compooky said:
A little weird that the first shot was recorded on the 911 call but not the second.
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Not really. I think she was walking around, moving in and out of the house.
 

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