Maine bear hunting

[JCV]

If you couldn't bait, trap, or run dogs on bear, the kill would be under 200 per year, I bet.
I've been in the North woods for about 30 years during all seasons and I've seen a total of 2 bears. And those 2 were just shit luck; our paths just happened to cross.

Bear hunting practices are not about hunting; they are about bear population management. Dogs, traps, and bait are the only three techniques that are effective.

I'm not familiar with bear hunting or the techniques used, but when you use dogs to track the beer, how close do the dogs get to the actual bear? You use multiple dogs, correct?

 

[JCV]

Multiple dogs are used and the idea if for the dogs to force the bear to tree. Which means for the bear to go up a tree until the hunter gets there to shoot the bear.

Holy shit, didn't know that at all.
Surprised the bear doesn't try to fight back. He's obviously outnumbered, but god damn it he must not know he's a god damn bear!

 

[JCV]

Some times they do. If the bear gets cornered with no where to go they can take out a very expensive hound. A swipe of a bear's paw can open up a hound. It does not have to be big bear either.

Yeah, I can't imagine it doing any less damage than that.
Interesting stuff, for sure.

 

[NHAtHeart]

Holy shit, didn't know that at all.
Surprised the bear doesn't try to fight back. He's obviously outnumbered, but god damn it he must not know he's a god damn bear!

Uh, the bears do fight back, the dogs chase and surround the bear and stay out of reach of the bears swipes. Generally the bear will run away unless it is cornered or it will climb a tree once it's surrounded but dogs do get hurt. During Moose hunts I've seen dogs with claw marks on their sides and scars from old wounds on them.

I prefer baiting over dogs personally, I don't have the stomach for hunting with dogs and it seems like the dogs are doing the work not the hunters but to each is own. I hunt rabbits with dogs so it's just what you're familiar with and what you do.

 

[NHAtHeart]

If you couldn't bait, trap, or run dogs on bear, the kill would be under 200 per year, I bet.
I've been in the North woods for about 30 years during all seasons and I've seen a total of 2 bears. And those 2 were just shit luck; our paths just happened to cross.

Bear hunting practices are not about hunting; they are about bear population management. Dogs, traps, and bait are the only three techniques that are effective.

This, in almost 20 years of hunting in Maine I've NEVER seen a bear while hunting. I've seen exactly _ONE_ bear in Maine while driving roads up country and I've seen 1 bear in NH near my house.

 

[alcestwo]

The very first time I hunted in ME, I saw a sow with 2 cubs. A few months ago, I was chatting with the guide I've used for bears about this referendum. He told me that in 75 years of hunting his father had gotten 2 bears in November when they can be hunted only by sight (no bait, no dogs). The guide himself had gotten 1 bear in 50 years of hunting. So only 3 bears in 125 years combined. Then I realized how lucky I was just seeing a bear. Effectively, bear hunting would be done if this referendum passes. I hope it doesn't pass.

 

[71montess]

I saw a sow w/ cubs last yr. 4 wheeling in NH near Errol.

 

[W.E.C]

If it passes, I'll just sit in camp and burn bacon over the fire all day.

 

[Marty McFly]

i think that if they do away with bait or dogs they must replace it with a way to manage the population. not sure what i agree on is best i am sure there will be far to many problems with no effective bear hunting at all.

 

[boxerjake77]

I'd love to kill a bear with my bow, even if it's stuffing it's face with doughnuts out of a 55gal drum.
I know the rush with deer, I can only imagine this being that times a thousand.

 

[Sir_Gawain]

The very first time I hunted in ME, I saw a sow with 2 cubs. A few months ago, I was chatting with the guide I've used for bears about this referendum. He told me that in 75 years of hunting his father had gotten 2 bears in November when they can be hunted only by sight (no bait, no dogs). The guide himself had gotten 1 bear in 50 years of hunting. So only 3 bears in 125 years combined. Then I realized how lucky I was just seeing a bear. Effectively, bear hunting would be done if this referendum passes. I hope it doesn't pass.

Thats awesome that you got your bear, but your guide has been hunting the wrong spots in ME if he's only gotten 1 in 50 years. My uncle is a registered Maine guide and works with Northern Pride Lodge up in Kokadjo....area is loaded with black bear. In the past 3 years my step father and 2 uncles have taken a bear from those woods (not to mention the many other paying patrons of the lodge). Take a look at their 2013 bear cam pics: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151472683970736.1073741859.280080485735&type=3

 

[NHAtHeart]

Thats awesome that you got your bear, but your guide has been hunting the wrong spots in ME if he's only gotten 1 in 50 years. My uncle is a registered Maine guide and works with Northern Pride Lodge up in Kokadjo....area is loaded with black bear. In the past 3 years my step father and 2 uncles have taken a bear from those woods (not to mention the many other paying patrons of the lodge). Take a look at their 2013 bear cam pics: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151472683970736.1073741859.280080485735&type=3

I think he meant 1 in 50 years without using bait or dogs. So one time in 50 years they stumbled on a bear in season and had a tag open.

My dad took one over bait with his bow, no sidearm. He said one of the scariest things is climbing down from a tree after sticking an arrow in bear after dark.

 

[Sir_Gawain]

I think he meant 1 in 50 years without using bait or dogs. So one time in 50 years they stumbled on a bear in season and had a tag open.

My dad took one over bait with his bow, no sidearm. He said one of the scariest things is climbing down from a tree after sticking an arrow in bear after dark.

Oh oh, that would make a lot more sense...whoops.

 

[Winchester73]

i think that if they do away with bait or dogs they must replace it with a way to manage the population. not sure what i agree on is best i am sure there will be far to many problems with no effective bear hunting at all.

Just look to Massachusetts for the consequences of ballot-box biology. Bear hunting in MA is now largely a hit or miss proposition of sitting in a stand and watching a food source-often a field of corn or an orchard. There are no dogs or baiting allowed here since 1996 and the bear population is growing and expanding eastward. In fact, the last I knew, Massachusetts had the densest (bears per square mile of habitat) population of bears east of the Mississippi River. The Fish and Wildlife Board has increased the season from 2 weeks to six, and has been repeatedly asked to increase the bag limit to two bears per season. They are a big problem in western MA and, because of their size and appetite, are very destructive.

What has happened is the S-S-S philosophy has taken hold, and like beavers (another ballot-box species that has been turned into a pest) people just deal with their problem and move on. There is no fair chase, no resource utilization, no biological information collected and no revenue generated for wildlife management and conservation.

You really need to look into the background of the Humane Society of the United States, the principle financial backer of this ballot initiative. They are anything but humane.

The end result of banning the two most effective methods of hunting bears in Maine will be an increase in the population and a corresponding increase in property damage and livestock losses. This WILL result in bears being killed year round and left where they lie as people look at them as nothing but large and expensive pests.

 

[kalash]

As I said before, hunting a predator is different than hunting prey. Prey animals you can track/stalk/wait for on their normal trails and habitat and even then it's not "easy" but it's at least reasonable. Predators are doing the same thing you are doing when you hunt a prey animal, they are out tracking sources of food whether it is an animal or a berry patch. Which means they can be pretty much anywhere, there isn't a lot of pattern involved unless there is a steady food source that they always come back to which isn't usually the case with most predators.

Predators also have very keen senses, not that a deer is stupid but it's definitely easier to sneak up on a deer than it is a bear or coyote. I'm not saying it doesn't happen and sometimes the bear doesn't think you're sneaking up on it, sometimes it wants to see what you are, see if maybe you're prey.

So without bait and dogs, your option is to literally wander the woods looking for a black animal that sleeps during most daylight hours and has extremely keen senses to know when you're coming. There would still be some success, but at that point it's more just luck than anything else, it would be very rare in those circumstances for an animal to be taken. It would also greatly increase the risk to the hunters who are out wandering the area trying to come across a 150->500+lb animal that would be content to eat them.

Informative post, thank you.

Multiple dogs are used and the idea is for the dogs to force the bear to tree. Which means for the bear to go up a tree until the hunter gets there to shoot the bear.

Oh, It is not that easy, you have to have good legs to run to the dogs once you hear the hounds bay when the bear is treed

I admit that I have not hunted but that just sounds too easy, like shooting fish in a barrel. What exactly is the "fun" in this? Not trying to throw fuel on the fire, just genuinely curious, especially as I've been considering taking the (forever full) hunter's ed course.

 

[71montess]

The problem of applying popular versions of what is "humane" and what most hunters consider "humane" (making a clean kill) is the greater population doesnt hunt for their food and applies their version to control the hunting minority. This is especially apparent in yung dudes. Control freaks wanting bigger govment.

 

[NHAtHeart]

This where you have to get out of your urban thinking process. It is not like shooting fish in barrel, if there was ever such a thing. You have to have knowledge of the game, the area and the many hours training the hounds, and yourself. Then it is locating a fresh track and scent to release the hounds on. Once that is done get ready to hustle as you will be running to keep the dogs in hearing. A lot more to this than can be explained to you on a keyboard and screen.

As what fun is this, What fun is to shoot something at Full Auto? What fun is driving a car as fast as possible down a straight track? What fun is launching fireworks?
You see how that plays?

Yup, there is definitely plenty of work that goes into ANY type of hound hunting. Having run rabbits with Beagles for years the difference between a good dog and a worthless dog is extremely apparent when your in the woods. We've run with a dog that used to escape the yard to go run rabbits on his own because he liked it. Can't believe the crazy bastard never got eaten by 'yotes. I've also run rabbits with my dad's beagle/walker mix who is mostly a lapdog and a part time hunting dog. She can do it after some practice but she's not really that good.

So I agree with JW, definitely now shooting fish in a barrel. It's different than hunting over bait but not necessarily "easier".

 

[tpm]

If you couldn't bait, trap, or run dogs on bear, the kill would be under 200 per year, I bet.
I've been in the North woods for about 30 years during all seasons and I've seen a total of 2 bears. And those 2 were just shit luck; our paths just happened to cross.

Bear hunting practices are not about hunting; they are about bear population management. Dogs, traps, and bait are the only three techniques that are effective.

Maine Fish and wildlife publishes the harvest information online in simple pdfs. So in 2012, the latest year of published data, maine had 3207 bears taken:

2,613 bears were taken over bait (81%), 368 bears were taken by hound hunters (11%), 66 bears were
taken in traps (2%), 100 were taken by unreported methods (3%), and 60 bears (2%) were harvested by deer hunters

So you are right, under 200 (only between 60-160) bears were taken without using bait, hounds or traps.

 

[NHAtHeart]

Maine Fish and wildlife publishes the harvest information online in simple pdfs. So in 2012, the latest year of published data, maine had 3207 bears taken:

So you are right, under 200 (only between 60-160) bears were taken without using bait, hounds or traps.

Good data, even if that figure increased 100% after the ban the bear population would explode in 10 years.

 

[whacko]

This why we have the problems that we do. I am willing to bet that you have no experience or first hand knowledge in this matter yet you have media manifested opinion.
This is HSUS which is not a "Humane Society" but a political action group to take away ALL trapping and hunting. They are doing it in increments.

I agree 100%! The rules that apply to hunting should not be on a ballot! The decision on what techniques are allowed should be left to the experts/biologists in the fish and game departments that base the decisions on the goal for a healthy population of the species involved. In other words......if allowing dogs and baiting is keeping the population of bears under control and at the goal they prescribe then leave it alone......if the population of bears starts to drop due to hunters being more successful while baiting and using dogs then the fish and game should (and usually does) change the rules a bit to make the hunt more challenging.....like requiring hunters to remove bait 10 days before the season opens and not hunt over bait (used this as an example there are many ways to accomplish the goal of making the hunt more challenging in order to increase a population while not restricting the number of tags given out). This is my understanding of it.

But to simply and blindly state "I'm against bait and dogs" is somewhat ignorant and probably from a completely uninformed point of view. How is hunting with dogs and bait an issue? Human beings have been using trained dogs to hunt for hundreds maybe thousands of years.......and bait? Really? what is the problem there you use bait to catch fish what is wrong with using it to hunt bears as long as the population is in the healthy range then let the hunter use bait to make them more successful.

 

[whacko]

Informative post, thank you.



I admit that I have not hunted but that just sounds too easy, like shooting fish in a barrel. What exactly is the "fun" in this? Not trying to throw fuel on the fire, just genuinely curious, especially as I've been considering taking the (forever full) hunter's ed course.

I took up hunting last year....and the coolest thing I ever saw was when I came out of a pheasant field about 10:00 in the morning for a coffee break (I don't have a dog.....I just criss cross the field to flush them by luck and have had limited success) and saw a man in his late 50's with his german short hair.......he had two pheasants and two rabbits in the bed of his truck.......he was inspecting and cleaning his dogs paws one at a time....then he looked over every inch of his dog to be sure he was healthy. I learned from watching that.....hunting with dogs is a partnership! It is not simply letting lose a crazy wild dog on prey.....even hunting bears with dogs rather than birds and rabbits I'm sure those hunters train with and care for their "partners" like this guy did.

Now I want a hunting dog myself!

 

[asp]

Fishing with bait isn't called catching.

Hunting with dogs or bait isn't called killing.

 

[whacko]

Fishing with bait isn't called catching.

Hunting with dogs or bait isn't called killing.

Sorry but you are going to have to help me out here. Not sure what you are gettign at.

 

[BattleSnail]

i dunno i kinda disagree with baiting and dogs.

^me too. That's not hunting....bait that is....hunting with dogs is cool.

I used to work at a privately owned donut shop in Maine and the leftover donuts every week (think 50 gal drum or two full) would be given by the owner to a hunter freind of his. He'd bait bears with them. I always kind of hoped a bear would maul him one day when he was laying his bait out.

 

[asp]

Sorry but you are going to have to help me out here. Not sure what you are gettign at.

It wasn't directed at you, just a general reply.

I meant that just because you're going out with dogs/bait doesn't mean you're guarantee you're going to rake in the mother lode. Native Americans killed all sorts of animals with much more primitive technology than we have today- why do we use modern technology if some would say it's cheating? The name of the game is to improve your chances.

^me too. That's not hunting....bait that is....hunting with dogs is cool.

I used to work at a privately owned donut shop in Maine and the leftover donuts every week (think 50 gal drum or two full) would be given by the owner to a hunter freind of his. He'd bait bears with them. I always kind of hoped a bear would maul him one day when he was laying his bait out.

This is another ignorant misconception. Bears don't just maul things for the hell of it. They are just as, if not more, frightened of you as you are them. I have accidentally been very close to a black bear twice in NH- not while hunting. We spooked each other and went opposite ways both times.

 

[whacko]

It wasn't directed at you, just a general reply.

I meant that just because you're going out with dogs/bait doesn't mean you're guarantee you're going to rake in the mother lode. Native Americans killed all sorts of animals with much more primitive technology than we have today- why do we use modern technology if some would say it's cheating? The name of the game is to improve your chances.



This is another ignorant misconception. Bears don't just maul things for the hell of it. They are just as, if not more, frightened of you as you are them. I have accidentally been very close to a black bear twice in NH- not while hunting. We spooked each other and went opposite ways both times.

Thanks.....didnt think it was directed at me was just curious what you meant. I'm under the same opinion......use the bait and or dogs to your advantage .....if the population gets too low adjust the hunting red to make it more challenging for the hunter. And leave the decisions to the fish and game not the ballot box

 

[BattleSnail]

It wasn't directed at you, just a general reply.

I meant that just because you're going out with dogs/bait doesn't mean you're guarantee you're going to rake in the mother lode. Native Americans killed all sorts of animals with much more primitive technology than we have today- why do we use modern technology if some would say it's cheating? The name of the game is to improve your chances.



This is another ignorant misconception. Bears don't just maul things for the hell of it. They are just as, if not more, frightened of you as you are them. I have accidentally been very close to a black bear twice in NH- not while hunting. We spooked each other and went opposite ways both times.

That's cool. Tell that to all the hikers who've spooked a bear and had their faces ripped off. Most animals are more afraid of you than vice versa. Spook one the wrong way, make him feel cornered, spook momma when cubs aren't far off...good luck to ya.

 

[Mark from MA]

^me too. That's not hunting....bait that is....hunting with dogs is cool.

I used to work at a privately owned donut shop in Maine and the leftover donuts every week (think 50 gal drum or two full) would be given by the owner to a hunter freind of his. He'd bait bears with them. I always kind of hoped a bear would maul him one day when he was laying his bait out.

Nice guy...oK to shoot a treed bear over dogs thats been chased like crazy, but it's not OK to bait hunt.

Bait is used for many reasons....bears are pretty noctournal and unless your at a reliable food source it's tough to even see one. Maine would never maintain harvest goals without it. Nor would a lot of hunters bother because it would be almost an excercise in futility to pattern a bear that's not on bait. Bait doesn't guarantee a bear, I know plenty of hunters who sat bait and got skunked.

Alot of hunters also use the bait to position the bear in the correct angle, and get a perfect shot as bears are tough to track unless hit perfectly. Also, the barrel is used to field judge a bear as they are not that easy to get an indicator of size. I know a lot of guys that have let a lot of bears go because the back is not up to the 2nd rung of the barrel. Another reason for baiting is being able to judge if its a sow, or a sow with cubs.

Say you didn't hunt bait and you were just lucky enough to even see a bear in the thick woods of September in Maine. Judging size and sex would be extremely tough with the animal walking past you rather quickly in thick brush.

 

[Fixxah]

It's not like you are hunting at Clarke's trading post.

-Proud to be dad every day, a licensed plumber most days, and wish I was a shoemaker on others.

 

[alcestwo]

This ballot question is starting to get more national attention now: http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...rs-push-ban-even-nuisance-complaints-increase

From my point of view, it sure is getting old constantly rehashing the question of what tactics to allow or even whether to allow hunting at all if the numbers permit. Anti-hunters have more time & money than brains. They're not interested in scientific or results-proven wildlife management principles.