MA LTC Question

[mdh]

Hello everyone! I've been lurking around reading everything I can about obtaining an unrestricted LTC (for about a year and a half!).

Unfortunately I live in Springfield, MA... a "black" city according to packing.org. I thought I found a glimmer of hope, however, when I read the following:

Obtain an application at the police department in the city or town where you reside or have a place of business. The issuing authority is the chief of police, the commissioner, or a person to whom he or she delegates the responsibility.

I own a business in Wilbraham, MA... which is at least a "gray" (unknown) town. I called the PD this morning to see what kind of documentation I would need to prove ownership of said Wilbraham business, and was hastily informed that I need to apply in Springfield, since I reside there. Am I misinterpreting the above statement from packing.org? Or was I misinformed by Wilbraham PD?

Literally the statement only mentions OBTAINING the application at either PD. But I inferred that it applied to submitting the app. as i can't imagine what difference it makes getting it in your residing town, or town of business... I got mine online! :? It appears to be a universal form...

Any insight is much appreciated!

 

[Lynne]

mdh - you're correct in how you interpreted the law. You CAN get a license in the town/city in which you own a business - however - the chief doesn't have to issue you one. I know of a few PD's that have issued to folks that live elsewhere, but have a business in their town or city. It's possible that the Chief in W. doesn't want to go there.

 

[mdh]

Wow! That was quick!

Thanks so much for your help... I'll try inquiring in person and perhaps get lucky. Hopefully I didn't speak to the chief. Haha! The way it was stated to me on the phone made me feel like I wasn't even asking a legit question!

If Wilbraham won't help me out I don't think I have any hope left unless I move... Ugh. With the reputation of Spfld and our chief, I might as well put the restrictions on there myself!

 

[Scrivener]

There is a word

for the type of answers to licensing questions one generally gets from dispatchers: Wrong.

Not that the licensing officers are much better.

I've heard that Walpole is refusing to take applications more than 2 months prior to expiration, despite the fact that the renewals are SUPPOSED to be sent 90 days in advance AND advise the renewing licensee to file them promptly. Walpole also tells applicants they don't need an FID if they have an LTC and will discourage you from applying. I don't "need" their unsolicited advice on what licenses I "need."

The LO in Lowell has told applicants that:

1. It is "UNLAWFUL" to hold both an FID and an LTC;

2. CHSB issues denial; not her;

3. If you are turned down, you cannot apply again for a YEAR; and

4. If you are turned down (discretion), you can appeal to the FLRB.

So, some fool on the other end of the phone claiming you HAVE to apply in the town in which you live is not at all surprising.....

 

[mdh]

Occupational incompetence never ceases to amaze me.

I at least expected to be shuffled off to "on-hold land" a few times before being misinformed. This guy stepped right up to the plate!

This is why I took my certification course 2+ years ago and still haven't filed for a permit. Hopefully I get one before the only thing left on the approved list is the S&W Mass. edition. [cry] [twisted]

I can see it now... "That gun doesn't meet MA requirements. It has a trigger".

 

[Lynne]

I don't know if it would be a good idea or not, but, when you go down, you might want to have a copy of the MGL's that state that's okay to do it. IF anyone says that you can't - then you can show them chapter and verse that says you can.

Also - the previous post is correct - not all the guys who answer the phone are well versed in MA gun laws.

 

[Lynne]

AND...if it's been 2+ years since you took your safety course - they probably won't accept it. Most PD's won't look at anything over 6 months old. You're probably going to have to take it again.

 

[mdh]

Ohhhhh NOOOO! If that's the case I just might give up!

What a pain!

 

[traveler57]

one thing to be careful of

For misinformation, yes, there are truckloads of it out there, both at the PD and by other "well meaning" folks. In my town, I was told by many people that LTC were impossible to get, or that only restricted LTCs for target/sport were granted. BUT, in fact I was given an LTC A ALP in 3 weeks. Of course, I had all my "ducks in a row" (thanks again Darius) and have a squeeky clean life all the way back.

On the up side, if you don't plan to move to a "better" town, then apply, and the worse thing that can happen could be that you get a target/sport LTC, but at least you can still go to the range, etc. I guess I am saying that I have not heard of a "clean" application getting fully denied for no reason. Unless maybe in Cambridge, Brookline, or Boston???

And, yes, I have found this forum in particular is a wealth of good information and good people, with very little myth. But, you should download and read all the mass laws if you can, to sort out the law from the misinformation. At least they will help you sleep if you have insomnia.

 

[Skald]

Mdh, my wishes are with you.

Sometimes CLEO's look at an applicant different when they are getting one due to business.

Before the current laws where put in, when I turned 21 I was in the process of getting a CCW permit for basically personal protection even though the cheif and sargent in the town didn't issue those types of permits to people who are around 21.

Reason they made the exception was the fact I was acting as a courrier for my dad's business and made frequent drops at the bank, and my reasoning for getting a CCW that the amount of money I was carrying, my life means squat to the people who would rob me. (I would carry and deposit anywhere between 30-100k in cash, check's etc. every few days.)

Cheif agreed and was gonna let me get a full CCW, but I moved to MI before it all went through.

 

[Lynne]

Ohhhhh NOOOO! If that's the case I just might give up!

What a pain!

Aye, that it is laddie. (Forgive me if it's lass. ) However - I suggest you check first to see if you can get a license where your business is. Talk to the person who issues them. If you can get one there, then find another class and take it. If all else fails, then get what you can get from your town. Getting it is the important thing.

 

[mdh]

You got it right Lynne... I'm a laddie

Thanks for the help everyone! If nothing else, the support I've already received from this community is very encouraging! Hopefully I can get this settled and become a permanent part of it

 

[M1966]

AND...if it's been 2+ years since you took your safety course - they probably won't accept it. Most PD's won't look at anything over 6 months old. You're probably going to have to take it again.

That would most likely be at the discrestion of the issuing officer and/or the town....my handgun course certificate was accepted for my LTC application LITERALLY 10 yrs after I took the course. I had taken the course for the hell of it around 1993 because my father-in-law was....I only decided to get my the LTC about a year ago. I found the paper and no-one batted an eye over the date

 

[Len-2A Training]

I can tell you that "the thin blue line" gets rather thick with chiefs "backing each other up"!

The law ALLOWS the chief in the town you live in OR the one you OWN a business in to issue the LTC. Neither is REQUIRED to issue you anything, by law.

I know for a fact that some chiefs feel that if "your chief" refuses to issue LTC-A/ALP, that they will NOT issue you any LTC (town you own a business in) as they don't want to second guess the chief in your town. It's BS, but it actually is "they all stick together" mentality that causes this problem.

Lynne's advice is solid, go talk with the chief in W and ask him if is willing to issue the LTC to you. Then go with problem #2, show him a copy of your MA training certificate and see if he'll accept it.

Worst case, sit down with your chief in Spgfld and level with him that you NEED the LTC-A/ALP because of your business . . . you might just get an exception to his "rule/policy".

Good luck and welcome aboard here.

 

[Len-2A Training]

AND...if it's been 2+ years since you took your safety course - they probably won't accept it. Most PD's won't look at anything over 6 months old. You're probably going to have to take it again.

That would most likely be at the discrestion of the issuing officer and/or the town....my handgun course certificate was accepted for my LTC application LITERALLY 10 yrs after I took the course. I had taken the course for the hell of it around 1993 because my father-in-law was....I only decided to get my the LTC about a year ago. I found the paper and no-one batted an eye over the date

Not quite! The law requiring the training was put into place in 1998. It requires a MA State Police approval certificate, which didn't exist prior to October 1998. If the PD accepted an NRA or other certificate from you that was from 1993, they made a mistake . . . in your favor. Congratulations! [lol]

 

[KMaurer]

There's nothing in the law that says that the training certificate (MSP, not NRA or any other sort) has to be issued within a particular time frame; it's all the particular licensing authority making up its own "suitability" rules.

If your certificate is "too old", you might touch base with the instructor who originally issued it. I know that immediately after the law wen into effect, we had several dozen students who had taken the necessary course before the MSP certificates were available. We were always willing to spend a few minutes with them doing a quick review and provide them with the required certificate, since they had taken the required course from us. We've also done a similar review and issued new certificates to a couple of people whose chief wouldn't accept their old paperwork. We've also let people who've taken the course previously sit through another one if they want for a token fee.

Ken

 

[mdh]

Well that at least makes me feel a little better! My instructor was a great guy so if bad comes to worse I'm sure I could give him a call and get an updated certificate.

Hopefully I can find someone a little more sympathetic to my plight at WPD than the first guy I spoke to. I would think if I have a chance anywhere its here.... Unless like LenS mentioned, they'll just turn me away to avoid stepping on the toes of another chief.

Now here's a new development to the story... I just went back to the Spfld PD website for the first time in a while and realized the notoriously anti-gun chief (Paula Meara) has retired. In her place we now have an "interim" commissioner, and 2 deputy chiefs. I don't know if this makes it any better or worse though!

 

[mdh]

Also... Do you guys recommend that I type up a letter of intent explaining my reasons for applying for ALP before I go? Or should I just let them ask me in the interview?

 

[Lynne]

Also... Do you guys recommend that I type up a letter of intent explaining my reasons for applying for ALP before I go? Or should I just let them ask me in the interview?

Go down to the station and pick up an application. Usually, (most PD's anyway) they will have a list of what you need to do and bring with you for the interview (if there is an interview). You may not need a letter of intent. If you don't, then don't give them one. Check on what you need first hun.

 

[Scrivener]

NEVER go in unprepared!

First, get the "packet" from the PD to see what crap has been added to the only authorized requirements; those set forth on the F 25/26 (make sure your PD has the current version, which can be downloaded from the FRB site).

Second, CAREFULLY prepare the application. Decide what extra "requirements" you choose to comply with - my advice is "None," but I'm not known for my social skills and failed sandbox - I don't work or play well with others....

Third, MAKE A COPY! Get that copy date-stamped when you file the original and KEEP IT.

Alsways remember:

 

[Len-2A Training]

Welcome Keith, I recognized that sig line!

I hope you enjoy it here, ask questions and share your knowledge.

 

[mdh]

Update...

Ok folks! Here's an update... (you're all losing sleep over this right!? [lol])

Went to WPD in person this time. I'm 99.9% sure I spoke to the same guy that I got on the phone. Here's how it went:

Him: Yeah?!
Me: Hi, can I get a pistol permit application please?
Him: Yeah here. (hands it to me)
Me: Quick question... I own a business in town and would like to know what I'll need for proof of business ownership.
Him: Well what town do you live in? (here we go...)
Me: Springfield, but I own a business here.
Him: Well you need to apply in Spfld then.
Me: I'm aware that Mass. Law states that you can apply in the town in which you own a business. (ready to whip out my printed MGLs)
Him: Yeah... I suppose. Well what are you applying for?
Me: LTC class A
Him: NO! for what!? Protection? Hunting?
Me: All lawful purposes.
Him: Nope, we don't issue those.
Me: Okay, I'm not sure then... the nature of my business requires handling firearms for photoshoots, illustrations, etc.
Him: Type up your reason for wanting it for Protection on company letterhead and submit that with your app I guess.

Ok. so now I guess my question is... Is "Protection" a restriction? I can't figure out what the difference between ALP and Protection would be. Certainly it doesn't rule out practice/target shooting? And if I were to be questioned while carrying, could I not always claim it's for protection?

 

[Admin]

I feel for you mdh. It sounds like it's going to be a battle from the get go.

If they issue you one because of the "protection" reason, I would imagine it would be ALP. I've never heard of a Class A issued for protection.

 

[Lynne]

I suppose they could restrict it for only when your working....but then how would they know what hours you work? I dunno... I hate this state.

 

[mdh]

Thanks derek,

I'm guessing this guy THINKS he knows more about MGLs than he actually does. The fact that he repeatedly tried pushing me away until I quoted the law, then suddenly (but reluctantly) conceded tells me he either doesn't know, or is just being really difficult.

Then he throws this "protection" thing at me... I would have to assume it's the same as ALP as well.

Mind you, this is a tiny little "hick-town" PD that's in an old converted 2 story house. A parking lot with 2 cruisers in it, and maybe 6 additional spaces.. half of which were occupied with civi vehicles. Not a big crime town, unlike Spfld. I imagine they'd probably just show me my cell after requestion the permit app.

Sorry for ranting... Just annoyed with the situation! [oops]

 

[Nickle]

I seriously wish you good luck with the Permit. I really mean it, no sarcasm.

 

[mdh]

I hate this state.

My sentiments exactly!!!

 

[mdh]

I seriously wish you good luck with the Permit. I really mean it, no sarcasm.

Thanks Nickle. I'm sure you went through the same kind of thing up in Vermont.

What!? NO!? [lol]

Ahhhhh... Got any room up there for me?

 

[Nickle]

I seriously wish you good luck with the Permit. I really mean it, no sarcasm.

Thanks Nickle. I'm sure you went through the same kind of thing up in Vermont.

What!? NO!? [lol]

Ahhhhh... Got any room up there for me?

Hell, I didn't get any grief from NH orr Utah, and as you well know, we don't need no "steenking" permits here.

We can ALWAYS find room in VT for you.

 

[Scrivener]

Don't listen to dispatchers

Their volume is in inverse proportion to their knowledge.

"Then he throws this "protection" thing at me... I would have to assume it's the same as ALP as well."

BAD assumption. Anything other than "ALL LAWFUL PURPOSES" is now - thanks to GOAL's counterproductive intermeddling - a RESTRICTED license.

One city - Lowell, IIRC - is telling applicants that "Employment" means you can't go to the range! It certainly means you can't carry anyplace but on the job and, arguably, going directly to/from work and the bank.

You need a well-prepared app, ESPECIALLY the letter regarding the reason for issuance. Good luck!