Looking for a 4.25" Barrel 45

[jpc647]

Hey guys, I joined a while ago and peruse the site on occasion.

I recently had to send back my Rock Island 1911 Nickel Plated and decided to get my money back after 2 failed attempts to fix it.


I've been searching for a replacement in the interim before my refund check comes in, and I do like the Para Tac-Four and the newishly released Ruger 1911 in 4.25". I'm on the fence between the two, almost prefer the Tac-Four but am hesitant as I can't shoot it first.

I want a bright metal finished gun, both of which above I consider to be. Hi-Cap mags aren't really a concern for me, if I ever can't get the job done in 8-10 rounds of 45acp, I'll hang up my hat and sell my guns.

Anything else out there that I'm missing? I do like the S&W pro series compact, but it's only available in the black coated. It'd love a high polish or nickel plated, but ultimately will be okay with something the same finish as the para, the ruger.

Looking for suggestions first, before I post anything in the classifieds.

Kimber makes exactly what I'm looking for, but sadly, can't get those in mass. Even if they aren't the most reliable and well liked guns, they make short barrel high polished 45's. Just to give you all an idea of where I'm at.

 

[drgrant]

Paras are ****ing junk. Ruger is better hands down.

 

[slap shot]

What was the issue with the RIA? I have same one and no issues but only put maybe 200 through it so far.

 

[tk421991]

Ruger SR1911 CMD. Shot a couple, no complaints, accurate and reliable.

 

[Lsgun1]

Buy my Springfield 1911 mil spec and have it hard chromed.

 

[Retired-LEO]

Paras are ****ing junk. Ruger is better hands down.

Agreed!!!! RUGER makes a nice 1911

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Paras are ****ing junk. Ruger is better hands down.

Agreed!!!! RUGER makes a nice 1911

 

[jpc647]

Paras are ****ing junk. Ruger is better hands down.

I've seen you're posts throughout the forum about para's being junk but I've never seen an explanation. Can you break it down for my why you don't like them and wha happened specifically? The ones made in Canada from the mid 2000's and earlier are supposed to be decent.

What was the issue with the RIA? I have same one and no issues but only put maybe 200 through it so far.

It wouldn't consistently eject and re-chamber rounds. Even loading a new round from a full magazine was problematic. It would get the round like 90% of the way into the chamber and stop. Even if I slammed the slide back onto the round it wouldn't pop back on. RIA replaced the ejector and the recoil spring, damaged the nickel finish in the process, and the problem persisted. Nothing against them, it was a fine looking gun. The nickel plated and the faux ivory/pearl grips oh it looked amazing. Yes, I like BBQ guns, and I live in New England, i'm in the minority. ha.

Ruger SR1911 CMD. Shot a couple, no complaints, accurate and reliable.

Good to know!

Buy my Springfield 1911 mil spec and have it hard chromed.

It would have to be a hell of a deal for it to be worthwhile to hard chrome it. Got a picture?

 

[drgrant]

I've seen you're posts throughout the forum about para's being junk but I've never seen an explanation. Can you break it down for my why you don't like them and wha happened specifically? The ones made in Canada from the mid 2000's and earlier are supposed to be decent.

Yeah, that's 100 years ago. Most of them are junk.
Terrible QC, terrible CS, and just terrible designs. The guy who used to work on my guns always had 2 or 3 paras in his range bag for testing/repair, probably one of the worst 1911/2011s ever made. Some of them would run for awhile but wouldn't take any hard use. Others were just junk out of the box.

At one time the Para Warthog was the most hated gun on NES... lmao.

I would buy a Krapber long before a Para, thats how much i think they suck.

-Mike

 

[Lsgun1]

It would have to be a hell of a deal for it to be worthwhile to hard chrome it. Got a picture?

It's a 5 inch but either way

 

[jasonj84]

I had a Para Ordnance once. Once.

 

[M1911]

I've seen you're posts throughout the forum about para's being junk but I've never seen an explanation. Can you break it down for my why you don't like them and wha happened specifically? The ones made in Canada from the mid 2000's and earlier are supposed to be decent.

Nope. The early ones are crap also. I should know -- I own an early P14/45. The P-14 is a double stack model. It often has failures to feed, particularly when there are only a few rounds left in the magazine. Yes, I have replaced mag springs and followers. Yes, these are factory PO magazines that are in good condition. The slide stop notch on the slide has become deformed over time. This require either difficult metal work on the slide or purchasing an entirely new slide. Not too long after I got it, the hammer started following the slide down. That required replacing the hammer and sear.

Paras are crap. Complete crap.

Personally, I've never particularly understood the desire for a Commander length 1911. The hard part of concealing a 1911 is not the slide length but rather the grip. And the full size 1911 has the same grip as the Commander.

As for SIG 1911s, many of them have a unique slide cut designed to make them look like the SIG P-series pistols. That unique slide cut makes them not fit in many standard 1911 holsters. If you get a SIG 1911, get one with the traditional 1911 slide profile.

As for Kimber, you really don't want one. Their early Kimber I models were good, but the Kimber II models are crap. They went through three different deigns of external extractors, all of which had reliability issues, before finally returning to an external extractor.

As much as I like 1911s, these days I carry and compete with Glocks.

 

[Palladin]

I have a S&W 1911ES 4.25 barrel (commander) on an officers frame. Love it

Not sure they make this model anymore, but you can find it on the auction sites

 

[slap shot]

I've seen you're posts throughout the forum about para's being junk but I've never seen an explanation. Can you break it down for my why you don't like them and wha happened specifically? The ones made in Canada from the mid 2000's and earlier are supposed to be decent.



It wouldn't consistently eject and re-chamber rounds. Even loading a new round from a full magazine was problematic. It would get the round like 90% of the way into the chamber and stop. Even if I slammed the slide back onto the round it wouldn't pop back on. RIA replaced the ejector and the recoil spring, damaged the nickel finish in the process, and the problem persisted. Nothing against them, it was a fine looking gun. The nickel plated and the faux ivory/pearl grips oh it looked amazing. Yes, I like BBQ guns, and I live in New England, i'm in the minority. ha.






Good to know!




It would have to be a hell of a deal for it to be worthwhile to hard chrome it. Got a picture?

Did they offer to replace? This type of issue is rare with them based on my research.

 

[tk421991]

Nope. The early ones are crap also. I should know -- I own an early P14/45. The P-14 is a double stack model. It often has failures to feed, particularly when there are only a few rounds left in the magazine. Yes, I have replaced mag springs and followers. Yes, these are factory PO magazines that are in good condition. The slide stop notch on the slide has become deformed over time. This require either difficult metal work on the slide or purchasing an entirely new slide. Not too long after I got it, the hammer started following the slide down. That required replacing the hammer and sear.

Paras are crap. Complete crap.

Personally, I've never particularly understood the desire for a Commander length 1911. The hard part of concealing a 1911 is not the slide length but rather the grip. And the full size 1911 has the same grip as the Commander.

As for SIG 1911s, many of them have a unique slide cut designed to make them look like the SIG P-series pistols. That unique slide cut makes them not fit in many standard 1911 holsters. If you get a SIG 1911, get one with the traditional 1911 slide profile.

As for Kimber, you really don't want one. Their early Kimber I models were good, but the Kimber II models are crap. They went through three different deigns of external extractors, all of which had reliability issues, before finally returning to an external extractor.

As much as I like 1911s, these days I carry and compete with Glocks.

The 4.25" barrel length 1911 came out with the Colt Commander and was for a 1949 military contract that required a pistol for officers in 9x19 and was not longer than 7" and weighed no more than 25 ounces. The trials were also the genesis of the S&W Model 39.

The actual "Commander" military pistol was a RIA (Illinois, not Philippines) M15 with a 4.25" barrel and was issued to Generals. The holster given for these pistols looks to me like a flap holster with the flap cut off.

If I had to hazard a guess, and this is a guess, I would say that the raison d'etre for the 4.25" 1911 is not exclusively concealability, but also would include simply a shorter pistol for close, confined spaces or when up close and personal with the opposition. This isn't exclusive to 1911s - look at the M11-A1 SIG. It's not a vast, technological leap over the P226 and the P228, it's just shorter.

 

[jpc647]

Yeah, that's 100 years ago. Most of them are junk.
Terrible QC, terrible CS, and just terrible designs. The guy who used to work on my guns always had 2 or 3 paras in his range bag for testing/repair, probably one of the worst 1911/2011s ever made. Some of them would run for awhile but wouldn't take any hard use. Others were just junk out of the box.

At one time the Para Warthog was the most hated gun on NES... lmao.

I would buy a Krapber long before a Para, thats how much i think they suck.

-Mike

Alright, well thanks for the information. I haven't heard about any terrible customer service yet, most people say it was good, or even great. Hmm. I don't need anything that'll take hard use. My even days at the range are usually with my 92FS compact or my 4053 Smith and Wesson. The RIA was an impulse buy, and It'd just like a 45 to replace it. A pretty one.

It'd buy the kimber regardless of the bad reviews, because they are pretty and make exactly what I'm looking for.

Agreed!!!! RUGER makes a nice 1911

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Agreed!!!! RUGER makes a nice 1911

Yeah, I did like my sr9c when I had it. Real nice running gun. I just don't know if the extra $200 is worth it. Anyone got a used 4.25" ruger for sale!? Ha. Finding grips would probably be easier for the short barreled 1911 too... Hmm, thats something to consider.

 

[M1911]

I'm actually quite well aware of the history of 1911s in general and of the Commander model in particular. My question is not about why it was developed. My question is why do YOU want one?

It isn't any easier to conceal or carry and the full size model provides a longer sight radius. The difference in weight is minimal.

This isn't the same as comparing say a Glock 17 to a Glock 19. The 19 not only has a shorter slide, but more importantly it has a shorter grip. It is the shorter grip that makes the 19 easier to carry than the 17, not so much the shorter slide. But the Commander has the same size grip as the full size. So you have given up sight radius but gained nothing in return.

In terms of an easier 1911 to carry, I prefer the "compact" models which pair the Commander length slide with the shorter Officer's length grip. Now that IS easier to carry than the full size. But the smaller you go in 1911s, the less reliable they are, and even full size 1911s often have reliability issues.

I have about 7 1911s, including two Compact models. They sit in the safe. I carry Glocks now.

 

[tk421991]

I'm actually quite well aware of the history of 1911s in general and of the Commander model in particular. My question is not about why it was developed. My question is why do YOU want one?

It isn't any easier to conceal or carry and the full size model provides a longer sight radius. The difference in weight is minimal.

This isn't the same as comparing say a Glock 17 to a Glock 19. The 19 not only has a shorter slide, but more importantly it has a shorter grip. It is the shorter grip that makes the 19 easier to carry than the 17, not so much the shorter slide. But the Commander has the same size grip as the full size. So you have given up sight radius but gained nothing in return.

In terms of an easier 1911 to carry, I prefer the "compact" models which pair the Commander length slide with the shorter Officer's length grip. Now that IS easier to carry than the full size. But the smaller you go in 1911s, the less reliable they are, and even full size 1911s often have reliability issues.

I have about 7 1911s, including two Compact models. They sit in the safe. I carry Glocks now.

I carry a BHP so I don't know why people buy 1911s in general. I'm always left grabbing for more grip and I don't like the muzzle flip. I find the BHP to be better ergonomically ​for me than any 1911.

 

[greencobra]

off topic maybe, but happy owner of 3 1993 vintage canadian para's, p14, p12 & p16. i'm the original owner and liked them enough to keep them all these years. over the years all kinds of people tell me they suck but can never give me a specific reason why. i always answer with the question "which one do you own?" and more times than not they reply "i know a guy..." and "lousy customer service." i've never even handled any other para except my own so i can't say how the "made in us" and newer stuff functions. back in the day, i shot ipsc with the p16 because of the capacity with that new fangled .40 s&w cartridge. the para ordnance guns were pretty much the only out of the box hi cap pistols out there unless you could afford to have a gun built. just sayin' is all...i'm happy, even the little p12 is reliable and that came out in a time when colt couldn't get their officers model to function worth a damn. ok, said my piece.

 

[M1911]

I carry a BHP so I don't know why people buy 1911s in general. I'm always left grabbing for more grip and I don't like the muzzle flip. I find the BHP to be better ergonomically ​for me than any 1911.

The two best things about 1911s are the trigger and the grip angle.

 

[M1911]

I gave specific reasons why my P14 sucks.

 

[jpc647]

Did they offer to replace? This type of issue is rare with them based on my research.

They did offer to replace it, but I chose the refund option.

I'm actually quite well aware of the history of 1911s in general and of the Commander model in particular. My question is not about why it was developed. My question is why do YOU want one?

It isn't any easier to conceal or carry and the full size model provides a longer sight radius. The difference in weight is minimal.

This isn't the same as comparing say a Glock 17 to a Glock 19. The 19 not only has a shorter slide, but more importantly it has a shorter grip. It is the shorter grip that makes the 19 easier to carry than the 17, not so much the shorter slide. But the Commander has the same size grip as the full size. So you have given up sight radius but gained nothing in return.

In terms of an easier 1911 to carry, I prefer the "compact" models which pair the Commander length slide with the shorter Officer's length grip. Now that IS easier to carry than the full size. But the smaller you go in 1911s, the less reliable they are, and even full size 1911s often have reliability issues.

I have about 7 1911s, including two Compact models. They sit in the safe. I carry Glocks now.

I only want a shorter barreled 1911 because of how they look. The short/compact 1911's just look cool, to me. If I could buy a 3.xx" barrel 1911 in Mass, I would. With the exclusion of the smith and wesson pro series, I can't find one. I don't have a restricted budget, but I'm not about to take an $1100 gun, and spend a third more to have it chromed.

I'll probably never carry the 1911 unless I'm bringing it over to a friends house or BBQ to show someone. I have a shield and a S&W 4053 and I use both of those for carry. The 45 is a range gun only, or well I guess if someday a giant grizzle bear ever walked in my front door. The Para Tac-Four did have a slightly shorter grip and the Ruger, which I liked.

I really did like the RIA in Nickel Plate. I was going to have the trigger, slide release, mag release and hammer gold cerekoted/powercoated. Taurus makes the Exact 1911 It'd like, but again, can't buy it. I know, it looks tacky, but I like it.

I borrowed this photo off someone on the net, but it'd love this:


But seeing as I can't have that without having it all custom build, I thought It'd find someone else it'd like. The S&W Pro Series 1911 is sweet looking, and I got to thinking what the closest thing I can get to that 1911 in a bright metal finish. So I've landed at the Para/Ruger. Unless there's something out there I'm missing. Got anything that is in the ballpark in your collection that you want to sell?

I have a S&W 1911ES 4.25 barrel (commander) on an officers frame. Love it

Not sure they make this model anymore, but you can find it on the auction sites

If it had a bright metal frame, It'd be interested.

i've seen a couple Colt's that fit the description, but they are all old and beat up and expensive(which is fine, if it's nice).


STI makes an Elektra (I think) that's close, but the all stainless version only comes with Pink Accents and Pink Grips. It's like $1300 which is fine, but Pink!? It's on the Target Roster, and the fit and finish on them in amazing.

 

[greencobra]

I gave specific reasons why my P14 sucks.

yes, you did. we all make judgments on experience and i expressed mine from personal experience. i have that galling also on my p12 in the slide stop area. unsightly? yep, but after close to 24 years, it ain't gonna get any worse.

 

[chris_1001]

Para's SUCK! I bought one, it failed to feed, eject and ultimately locked up with a live round in the chamber (on my first/last outing with it). I brought it back to the dealer and said give me my money back. They tried to have me get it repaired. Said no ****ing way.

I bought a S&W 1911PD (4.25") with the proceeds. Way better. No isues at all and very accurate. I have two 4.25" and two 5" ones. I think I shoot the S&W the best.

Take a look at the Sig 1911's I have two (TTT full size and Carry Scorpion 4.25) and love them. Next up I want a Sig 1911 Ultra Carry

 

[M1911]

They did offer to replace it, but I chose the refund option. I only want a shorter barreled 1911 because of how they look. The short/compact 1911's just look cool, to me. If I could buy a 3.xx" barrel 1911 in Mass, I would.

3" models are the worst. Horrid reliability.

 

[tk421991]

The two best things about 1911s are the trigger and the grip angle.

I have no gripes about the grip angle or the trigger. That's why I thought "hey, maybe I should buy a BHP." It's the width (the lack thereof) of a standard 1911 grip and the muzzle flip that prevents me from buying one. I've shot Kimbers, Springfields, Remingtons and Rugers. Held and played with others like the new CZ and Colts. I just have no interest in them. If I had the extra cash or if the CMP releases surplus 1911A1s, I would consider buying a military issue one but not shooting it more than say once or twice a year.

Anyways, I'm not in the mood for hijacking this guy's thread.

 

[jpc647]

yes, you did. we all make judgments on experience and i expressed mine from personal experience. i have that galling also on my p12 in the slide stop area. unsightly? yep, but after close to 24 years, it ain't gonna get any worse.

This is something to think about. I want a "pretty para" and if I shoot it it's going to gall and look terrible.... hmmm

3" models are the worst. Horrid reliability.

Well I may not get away from that... :/

 

[drgrant]

I really did like the RIA in Nickel Plate. I was going to have the trigger, slide release, mag release and hammer gold cerekoted/powercoated. Taurus makes the Exact 1911 It'd like, but again, can't buy it. I know, it looks tacky, but I like it.

You can buy it all you want, hell I could get one by next week. Problem is I'm not sure why anyone would want the gun equivalent of Ebola. Taurus and Para typically compete neck and neck to be crowned as the
worst.

That being said, I did actually fire a couple mags through a Taurus 1911 once, and it worked and didn't blow up, but that's hardly much evidence. In the case of the guy that owned the gun, if it ever is a piece of junk he'll probably never notice it because it's not like he shoots them a lot. If their QC wasn't so terrible they'd be worth a look.

If it had a bright metal frame, It'd be interested.

They problem with blingy guns is they don't wear well. It's like having a white car, any little blem is going to stick out bad. That's why most smart people don't buy them. About as blingy as I would want to get is some kind of stainless gun, or get something and hard chrome it, or maybe nickel plating.

Short 1911s are also lacking in relaibility, as M1911 indicates. I had a couple officers model lightweights (colts) and while mine worked fine, if you fed them the wrong ammo you would get punished for it... and you can forget about running those guns dirty. Not to mention the recoil springs get the piss pounded out of them and need to be replaced pretty quickly. The stock guns also kinda beat the shit out of you unless you do things like change the beavertail, etc. I'd rather just have a G30 and get half the abuse and 10 times the reliability. (and the recoil spring lasts a lot longer).

-Mike

 

[M1911]

Not to mention the recoil springs get the piss pounded out of them and need to be replaced pretty quickly.

IIRC, the recoil spring on the Kimber Compact models is supposed to be changed every 800 rounds, which is nothing for me.

 

[jpc647]

You can buy it all you want, hell I could get one by next week. Problem is I'm not sure why anyone would want the gun equivalent of Ebola. Taurus and Para typically compete neck and neck to be crowned as the
worst.

That being said, I did actually fire a couple mags through a Taurus 1911 once, and it worked and didn't blow up, but that's hardly much evidence. In the case of the guy that owned the gun, if it ever is a piece of junk he'll probably never notice it because it's not like he shoots them a lot. If their QC wasn't so terrible they'd be worth a look.



They problem with blingy guns is they don't wear well. It's like having a white car, any little blem is going to stick out bad. That's why most smart people don't buy them. About as blingy as I would want to get is some kind of stainless gun, or get something and hard chrome it, or maybe nickel plating.

-Mike

How can I buy it all I want, they aren't legal to be sold in mass. If I found a mint Taurus 1911 like I posted with the grips and gold accents, It'd buy it. What are you a cop or a fed or something? I'm not sure how else you'd get one.

I do appreciate the advice, and the analogy is pretty good. I never thought of it that way. My Inox Beretta is holding up okay, but I baby it and I'm super careful when I put on or remove anything from the rail.

IIRC, the recoil spring on the Kimber Compact models is supposed to be changed every 800 rounds, which is nothing for me.

That's crazy. Thats like 3 range trips....

 

[tk421991]

How can I buy it all I want, they aren't legal to be sold in mass. If I found a mint Taurus 1911 like I posted with the grips and gold accents, It'd buy it. What are you a cop or a fed or something? I'm not sure how else you'd get one.

I do appreciate the advice, and the analogy is pretty good. I never thought of it that way. My Inox Beretta is holding up okay, but I baby it and I'm super careful when I put on or remove anything from the rail.

That's crazy. Thats like 3 range trips....

They have this place called New Hampshire, where you can buy any pistol you want, and then per Federal law, transfer it down to a dealer in Mass and take it home, as long as the pistol doesn't violate the Mass AWB, etc.

Sorry, we're obligated to point this out once we get out licenses up in NH. We sign a deal with the Department of Tourism, Economic Development and Toll Booths.