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Lexington Resident Just Got LTC, With Sporting Restriction

kalash said:
Mandatory training (which costs money), application fees, multi-month wait times, essays, letters of reference, and in the end the chief of police (who you probably have never met) gets to arbitrarily decide whether you are allowed to exercise a constitutional right. What part of that is "easy"? In 38 states you don't need a license to buy a handgun at all.
Click to expand...

A big problem is the actual cost of the license. Imagine if we considered bringing back the poll tax for the right to vote.
 
easycity said:
I want to spread out the word that a LTC, even though restricted, is relatively easy to get, even in a town like Lexington.
For those who owning guns for a long time, perhaps for generations, it is difficult to believe that there are many people in Massachusetts taking for granted that handgun ownership and conceal carry are beyond their reach. Fervent anti-gun media coverage created an impression of strict and anti-gun police department in the minds of many people. Faced with risking $100 application fee and cost of gun safety course, countless people do not bother to try. Until several days ago when I saw my LTC card, I still worried that I might be rejected, and wasted several hundred dollars.
That is why I want to describe my experience in detail, and let people search the internet and found my post. One more person with LTC or FID, no matter what restrictions they have, still is one more person armed with firearms. I have a feeling that right now it is not a time to expand the gun right over the existing restrictions, but to put guns in the hands of as many responsible people as possible. To maximize gun-carrying population, it is important for the overall society to reach some common ground, including gun right loyalists and anti-gun populists. That may require compromises on both sides. I am afraid restrictions may be the easiest pill for everyone.
Click to expand...

You trolling? Not sure if you angered more people here or if you had posted this on FB instead for the soccer moms. Your message would make more sense being shared with that niche of borderline people who are interested in self protection but are too lazy to do anything about it. The readers here are upset that you happily ate the restrictions and rationalized that it was a good thing.
 
TomMontana said:
You trolling? Not sure if you angered more people here or if you had posted this on FB instead for the soccer moms. Your message would make more sense being shared with that niche of borderline people who are interested in self protection but are too lazy to do anything about it. The readers here are upset that you happily ate the restrictions and rationalized that it was a good thing.
Click to expand...

Complaisant behaviors and/or mindsets combined with loss of focus create ripe situations for the advancements of bills that create loss of rights.
That being said upset hardly begins to describe. Irate is a far better match. To think anybody would settle on their personal rights in that even a restricted license is a license, right? Wrong, it is the first step towards finding ourselves in the proto-Orwellian society that is Los Angeles where approved license-to-carry numbers are in the hundreds. And even those are corrupt with connection-based needs.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
The relevant law is the one that gives the IA the authority to deem you unsuitable.

The chances of the legal sanctions coming into play (civil fine) are very slim. The real issue is revocation of the LTC, which is already provided for in law. For all practical purposes, you have to feel the chief did not feel he had a reason to revoke the LTC in order to prevail at an appeal of the revocation.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that violating a restriction was an automatic revocation and fine which could cost you up to 10K.

Section 131
 
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MAJoe said:
Out of curiosity, what realistic situations do you expect to encounter hiking that you'd need a concealed firearm? Personally I bet the occurrence of a home invasion would be more probable... Just something to ponder.

Welcome and congrats on the LTC. I used to have a similar mindset, but now very glad mine is unrestricted.
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As someone who regularly hikes and mountain bikes in state parks with marked trails frequented by irresponsible people my honest answer to that would be off leash dogs. I do go to the pepper spray first as an escalation of force doctrine. I’ve had to use the spray once but thankfully had to use the gun zero times.
 
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Maybe we could give the new guy just a little slack. Weren't any of y'all ever new to this world of personal responsibility and self defense?

Easy: My wife hates guns. My daughter used to and is now applying for her LTC. Sometimes they come around, sometimes not. Just explain that it's your duty to take care of them and then do what needs to be done.


Sparkey said:
I didn’t buy fire extinguishers for my home thinking i would need them.Six years down the road I did and I was dam glad I had them to put out the fire.
Click to expand...

With a name like Sparkey I should HOPE you have fire extinguishers on hand pretty much at all times!
 
CCW said:
I was under the impression that violating a restriction was an automatic revocation and fine which could cost you up to 10K.

Section 131
Click to expand...
That's what I said.

The chances you get to the point of a court revocation or the civil fine are slim compared to the chance the issuing authority will revoke the LTC and that will be it.
 
easycity said:
I received a detailed description of all kinds of restrictions with my LTC.

"Sporting - Restricts possession to the purpose of lawful recreational shooting or competition; for use in the lawful pursuit of game animals and birds; for personal protection in the home; for the purpose of collecting (other than machine guns); and for outdoor recreational activities such as hiking, camping, cross country skiing, or similar activities. Includes travel to and from activity location."

Now I realized that at least in Lexington, the "Sporting" restriction is defined quite broadly, much more than "recreational shooting or competition".
As far as I can see, "Sporting" restriction allows "hiking" "or similar activities", and "Includes travel to and from activity location". That means as long as I think about taking a walk somewhere, anywhere, in my mind, I can carry a firearm concealed, because I can legally claim that I am in the "travel to and from activity location".
I do realize that this restriction does NOT allow me to carry concealed when I am working in an office, going to restaurants, or do shopping. For now I really do not have any plan to carry any firearm outside of my house, except to remote places for real hiking and camping.

A monkey wrench thrown into my practice of my gun right is that the series of school shooting recently has turned many people into gun haters, that include my kids. So I may not possess a gun anyway, at least not in this year. I have owned air guns for several years. So I can keep practicing my air guns. I can go to Granite State Range in Nashua, New Hampshire to rent guns and practice firing a real firearm. That does not require a LTC anyway.
So you can see that Lexington is a unique town in a unique state, and I am in a unique environment. "Sporting" restriction in my LTC does not give me any inconvenience.
Click to expand...
You sir are unique [troll]
 
easycity said:
I want to spread out the word that a LTC, even though restricted, is relatively easy to get, even in a town like Lexington.
For those who owning guns for a long time, perhaps for generations, it is difficult to believe that there are many people in Massachusetts taking for granted that handgun ownership and conceal carry are beyond their reach. Fervent anti-gun media coverage created an impression of strict and anti-gun police department in the minds of many people. Faced with risking $100 application fee and cost of gun safety course, countless people do not bother to try. Until several days ago when I saw my LTC card, I still worried that I might be rejected, and wasted several hundred dollars.
That is why I want to describe my experience in detail, and let people search the internet and found my post. One more person with LTC or FID, no matter what restrictions they have, still is one more person armed with firearms. I have a feeling that right now it is not a time to expand the gun right over the existing restrictions, but to put guns in the hands of as many responsible people as possible. To maximize gun-carrying population, it is important for the overall society to reach some common ground, including gun right loyalists and anti-gun populists. That may require compromises on both sides. I am afraid restrictions may be the easiest pill for everyone.
Click to expand...

Noble sentiment I guess, but this isn’t really the audience to describe how easy it is to jump through those hopes. You need to share that with the folks you describe. Not sure how you reach them but we already know.
 
drgrant said:
There are many towns in MA that simply do not issue restricted licenses, so "no, it's not. "

I would wager out of like 351 cities and towns in MA there aren't more than a a couple dozen at this point that actively restrict licenses.

Of course I don't know how Lexington works, it might be one of those towns where "If soemone is wonky enough to actually ask for a restriction, we'll give it to them" There's probably a bunch of those, too.

-Mike
Click to expand...
OP requested restrictions? I missed that
 
I read this entire thread and here's my take. We all know that MA is a hard state for gun owners and some towns are harder than others. Many are upset with the restriction as gun ownership is a right, but we still live in MA and we still know how MA is. Perhaps this new LTC owner would have done something different had he asked a few questions here first, perhaps not. He's happy with what he got and we should be happy for him. If we want to encourage more to join our fold we need to educate others to also stand up for our rights, not knock someone for trying. Knowledge is a powerful tool, but only if used correctly.
 
OP, can you clarify, what were the reasons you specifiy on your application? Did you ASK for sporting restriction, because you didn't want to get denied, or did you ask for All Lawful Purposes, and the they gave you Sporting? Did you put anything other than All Lawful Purposes on your Application?

easycity said:
I want to spread out the word that a LTC, even though restricted, is relatively easy to get, even in a town like Lexington.
For those who owning guns for a long time, perhaps for generations, it is difficult to believe that there are many people in Massachusetts taking for granted that handgun ownership and conceal carry are beyond their reach. Fervent anti-gun media coverage created an impression of strict and anti-gun police department in the minds of many people. Faced with risking $100 application fee and cost of gun safety course, countless people do not bother to try. Until several days ago when I saw my LTC card, I still worried that I might be rejected, and wasted several hundred dollars.
That is why I want to describe my experience in detail, and let people search the internet and found my post. One more person with LTC or FID, no matter what restrictions they have, still is one more person armed with firearms. I have a feeling that right now it is not a time to expand the gun right over the existing restrictions, but to put guns in the hands of as many responsible people as possible. To maximize gun-carrying population, it is important for the overall society to reach some common ground, including gun right loyalists and anti-gun populists. That may require compromises on both sides. I am afraid restrictions may be the easiest pill for everyone.
Click to expand...
 
quiller said:
I read this entire thread and here's my take. We all know that MA is a hard state for gun owners and some towns are harder than others. Many are upset with the restriction as gun ownership is a right, but we still live in MA and we still know how MA is. Perhaps this new LTC owner would have done something different had he asked a few questions here first, perhaps not. He's happy with what he got and we should be happy for him. If we want to encourage more to join our fold we need to educate others to also stand up for our rights, not knock someone for trying. Knowledge is a powerful tool, but only if used correctly.
Click to expand...
In the beginning for me I read a lot of posts here before I ever posted. NES can be a tough place.

Hopefully the OP sees the wisdom in the posts that are coming down hard on him.
 
MachineHead said:
A big problem is the actual cost of the license. Imagine if we considered bringing back the poll tax for the right to vote.
Click to expand...
This issue was fought in NYC, and the court held that a few hundred to own a handgun and a thousand or so to have a remote shot at a real carry permit was not a 2A infringement.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
That's what I said.

The chances you get to the point of a court revocation or the civil fine are slim compared to the chance the issuing authority will revoke the LTC and that will be it.
Click to expand...

Actually what I was saying is I thought the fine was automatic.
 
CCW said:
Actually what I was saying is I thought the fine was automatic.
Click to expand...
The fine is list any other court imposed penalty - it is issued by a judge after a finding or plea deal. It's not like a traffic ticket which is done via citation.
 
That's easy?? In most states you drive to a gun shop, pick a gun of your choice and not the dimple faced AG, buy it and walk out the door with it concealed under your shirt. That's easy.
 
slap shot said:
OP requested restrictions? I missed that
Click to expand...

Never said that he did, just suggesting that there are towns who will act that way.

Some will pretty much force them... others will only restrict if you're stupud enough to ask/walk yourself into the trap, and others force "none".
 
easycity said:
I want to spread out the word that a LTC, even though restricted, is relatively easy to get, even in a town like Lexington.
For those who owning guns for a long time, perhaps for generations, it is difficult to believe that there are many people in Massachusetts taking for granted that handgun ownership and conceal carry are beyond their reach. Fervent anti-gun media coverage created an impression of strict and anti-gun police department in the minds of many people. Faced with risking $100 application fee and cost of gun safety course, countless people do not bother to try. Until several days ago when I saw my LTC card, I still worried that I might be rejected, and wasted several hundred dollars.
That is why I want to describe my experience in detail, and let people search the internet and found my post. One more person with LTC or FID, no matter what restrictions they have, still is one more person armed with firearms. I have a feeling that right now it is not a time to expand the gun right over the existing restrictions, but to put guns in the hands of as many responsible people as possible. To maximize gun-carrying population, it is important for the overall society to reach some common ground, including gun right loyalists and anti-gun populists. That may require compromises on both sides. I am afraid restrictions may be the easiest pill for everyone.
Click to expand...

Insert your "pill" into your back side. You're a troll. Plain and simple.
 
I don't think he is trolling really I just think that he probably has a lack of perspective like a lot of us did... this state tends to cause that particularly if somebody never experienced gun ownership in a normal state. It is easy for somebody to be deluded into thinking that the process here is "normal" if that's all they've ever experienced....
 
drgrant said:
I don't think he is trolling really I just think that he probably has a lack of perspective like a lot of us did... this state tends to cause that particularly if somebody never experienced gun ownership in a normal state. It is easy for somebody to be deluded into thinking that the process here is "normal" if that's all they've ever experienced....
Click to expand...

I’d already owned guns for ten years in three other states before I moved here.

As confusing as a lot of MA natives find MA firearms law, trust me: it’s a lot more confusing when you’re coming from somewhere else.

He’ll get there.
 
cuck·old
ˈkəkəld,ˈkəkōld/
noun
archaic
noun: cuckold; plural noun: cuckolds
  1. 1.
    the husband of an adulteress, often regarded as an object of derision.
verb
verb: cuckold; 3rd person present: cuckolds; past tense: cuckolded; past participle: cuckolded; gerund or present participle: cuckolding
  1. 1.
    (of a man) make (another man) a cuckold by having a sexual relationship with his wife.
    • (of a man's wife) make (her husband) a cuckold.
 
Picton said:
I’d already owned guns for ten years in three other states before I moved here.

As confusing as a lot of MA natives find MA firearms law, trust me: it’s a lot more confusing when you’re coming from somewhere else.

He’ll get there.
Click to expand...

I was more referring to the cultural-legal aspect- EG, the fact that he probably thinks its "normal" to have to go through all that BS to get a license, etc. I still run into MA gun owners that are mystified when they ask me "If I move to (less commie state) what license will I need to buy stuff?" and I tell them "Usually, you don't need anything outside of not having a criminal record and a drivers license. " lol. That's more what I'm talking about. People who start in MA typically end up with this weird mental state. Some people even justify it. (without understanding how horribly bad the process is). Stockholm Syndrome would almost be a good way of describing it.

-Mike
 
OP, Congrats on getting your LTC. Get a good gun safe, bigger than what you think you will need. Guns have a way of multiplying in the dark all by themselves once you close and lock that door. at least that's what I tell my wife...lol

To everyone else in Mass or another Nazi state...why are you bashing the OP? I read statements about "shall not be infringed". Well, wake up....we are severely infringed in Mass. The license itself is an infringement. So unless you have a cache of firearms and freely carry and use them all you want without a government permission slip then we are all contributing to our rights being lost....me included.

So the government puts in rules and regulations and restrictions and licensing requirements and certificate requirements and then charges us to apply for the license. And we bend over and smile and brag to everyone how we got a non-restricted LTC.

Did we?

I can't buy a brand new AR15. I cannot carry a firearm into a government building. I cannot carry a firearm on school grounds. I believe I cannot carry a firearm on the Boston Common...now that's freaking irony. I have to register my firearm purchases. There is a approved firearms roster in Mass telling me what I am allowed to buy and what I am not allowed to buy. I'm told how to store my firearms. I can't buy a gun or ammunition without a license. I can't carry a handgun while I hunt deer with a shotgun. We have an AG writing her own restrictive gun laws. My rights are under attack every time a criminal commits a crime with a gun. There are limits on how much ammunitions I can possess.

So how is any LTC not restricted?
 
robjax said:
I can't buy a brand new AR15 - sure you can.
WTS - MA Compliant, Fixed Magazine AR style Rifle - New Manufacture - $950

I cannot carry a firearm into a government building. I cannot carry a firearm on school grounds. I believe I cannot carry a firearm on the Boston Common...now that's freaking irony. I have to register my firearm purchases.

There is a approved firearms roster in Mass telling me what I am allowed to buy and what I am not allowed to buy. No, the roster only applies to what dealers can sell.

I'm told how to store my firearms. I can't buy a gun or ammunition without a license. I can't carry a handgun while I hunt deer with a shotgun. We have an AG writing her own restrictive gun laws. My rights are under attack every time a criminal commits a crime with a gun. There are limits on how much ammunitions I can possess.

So how is any LTC not restricted?
Click to expand...

FIFY [laugh]
But yes I agree, this state sucks big time.
 

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