LEO and pre 1998 never owned in Mass pistol

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

My brother is supposed to get a 1952 Colt Commander that was never owned in Mass, his father in law passed and wanted him to have it, but never listed it in the will. His mother in law simply said that she knew he wanted him to have it.

Now the rub, it is in NJ and my brother doesn't have an LTC. He told me he was going to drive down and get the gun and he wasn't going to get an LTC because he doesn't want to carry it. (Can you see a few issues here?)

I told him first he has to get an LTC and then we could go from there. He said he has a friend who is a LEO, a Lieutenant in a nearby town he he thinks he can "grease the skids" (his words) for him and get it for him.

I told him that the safest way to handle it is to get an LTC and then a 03FFL and then he could do the transfer through a dealer 01 to 03, totally legal.
I have an 03 and could do the same thing as long as I was going to add it to my collection and my brother could just know that I have the gun and so it wouldn't be lost although it would be my gun when I die I could will it to him. But I think I will just give advice and not get involved with ownership or keeping it in my collection. Although I would love to add it to my collection.

What is the story on LEO's and pre-98 guns never owned in Mass?

 

[drgrant]

Doesn't matter, compliance BS still applies at the dealer level. The only LEO wallhack is it makes the dealer immune with CMR940 but since this is off list so none of that matters.

-Mike

 

[IPSC_DRL]

Either the LEO "friend" was blowing smoke, or your brother completely misunderstood.

 

[atilla]

he could always just go and get the gun and keep quiet about it.

"nope, i've had this for XYZ years, not sure what you guys are talkin' about."

 

[CrackPot]

You are making this up. There are no guns in NJ.

I agree with your approach. He gets an LTC and then an 03 FFL and goes and picks it up. The interim of you taking possession as an 03 FFL also makes sense. Log it into your book, add it to your collection. In a year or so when you decide to upgrade your collection or otherwise get tired of it, you can transfer it to your brother who now has his LTC. That scenario does not even require he get an 03.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

he could always just go and get the gun and keep quiet about it.

"nope, i've had this for XYZ years, not sure what you guys are talkin' about."

Ah, but without a LTC if he gets caught with it, it won't matter how long he has had it, it is still a handgun in Mass with no license...

Legally you need an LTC to have any firearm, or an FID if it is a shotgun or rifle. Just sayin...

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

You are making this up. There are no guns in NJ.

I agree with your approach. He gets an LTC and then an 03 FFL and goes and picks it up. The interim of you taking possession as an 03 FFL also makes sense. Log it into your book, add it to your collection. In a year or so when you decide to upgrade your collection or otherwise get tired of it, you can transfer it to your brother who now has his LTC. That scenario does not even require he get an 03.

That is my preferred way, then I can take it to the range whenever I wanted and he can tell his anti-gun wife that while he knows in his heart that the gun in my safe is his, it is legally mine. I would promise not to sell it, just keep it in my collection and add a letter to my will saying if I kick the bucket first it would go to him.
I always wanted a Commander unfired with original box! BTW the original bill of sale shows his father in law paid $55 for it!

 

[EJFudd]

The interim of you taking possession as an 03 FFL also makes sense. Log it into your book, add it to your collection. In a year or so when you decide to upgrade your collection or otherwise get tired of it, you can transfer it to your brother who now has his LTC. That scenario does not even require he get an 03.

This. Simple, sweet and uncomplicated.

 

[atilla]

Ah, but without a LTC if he gets caught with it, it won't matter how long he has had it, it is still a handgun in Mass with no license...

Legally you need an LTC to have any firearm, or an FID if it is a shotgun or rifle. Just sayin...

true, that's on him though. if he doesn't want to get an LTC and is fine with the potential ramifications... meh.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I know that as an 03 I can have it shipped direct to my house for my collection, but also that the USPS will not accept it from a non-dealer, and UPS is funny that way as well.

So I am pretty sure that they could take it to FedEx and ship it direct overnight, correct?

I assume they would need a signed copy of my 03FFL to show to FedEx and have to go to an actual FedEx location, what "rule" in the FedEx rules covers it?

 

[PATRON]

They can have a FFL in NJ ship it to you then some time down the road you find you no longer want the gun,and he gets an LTC then you can E FA-10 to him. I think getting it for the reason of just giving it to him could fall under the straw thing.

 

[EJFudd]

They can have a FFL in NJ ship it to you then some time down the road you find you no longer want the gun,and he gets an LTC then you can E FA-10 to him. I think getting it for the reason of just giving it to him could fall under the straw thing.

Sounds like Ben is going to have that gun in his collection for a long time to come and clearly going to get some good use out of it. As a family matter, it may eventually go to his brother... someday one way or another... but I wouldn't bet my life on it happening anytime soon. Sounds like Ben's brother getting himself an LTC is not exactly his highest priority.

 

[pepperoni]

Then your bro says... ok thanks for getting it, now its mine, hand it over.
Make sure you use some foresight and avoid any possible complications.
Explain from A to Z how its going to happen and how he can aquire it from you before you start.

Also..You sound like your excited to have it in your collection but remember its his deceased father in laws gun
that was to be passed onto him.. not you. Im having trouble figuring out if your trying to get his handgun legally to your brother or more of a vulture.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I just talked to him and his LEO friend told him to just drive to NJ put it in his trunk and drive home and keep it in his house, the LEO says no problem. Sounds like that is what he might do, although he did ask me what the procedure to get an LTC is after I explained everything to him. I also mentioned that his HS age daughter may be trustworthy but what about her boyfriends?

Of course he cannot buy ammo for it because he doesn't have a FID or LTC.

Myself I worry too much and don't look good in orange, I wouldn't transport a handgun interstate without a license and bring it to live in Mass without a license. But that is just me. He is free white and over 21 so he can do what he wants but...

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Then your bro says... ok thanks for getting it, now its mine, hand it over.
Make sure you use some foresight and avoid any possible complications.
Explain from A to Z how its going to happen and how he can aquire it from you before you start.

Also..You sound like your excited to have it in your collection but remember its his deceased father in laws gun
that was to be passed onto him.. not you. Im having trouble figuring out if your trying to get his handgun legally to your brother or more of a vulture.

I actually don't need another 1911, have 3 or 4 already, not sure. But I am more concerned that if they have to get it out of the mother in laws house sooner rather than later I could help from it leaving the family.
It is funny because his wife is very anti gun, sexual comments about assault weapons and a persons privates etc. I am surprised she is going to allow that especially if he brings it in illegally. I hope he takes my advice and gets an LTC and then gets the gun, since I am better off out of it.

 

[pepperoni]

Sorry if i sounded like a dick, i reread my post.
I dont know you ben, i was just thinking it would be a shame if the guys wishes ended up elsewhere.
Best of luck, hopefully your bro lives in a green town and is able to get an ltc quickly.

 

[Picton]

You know this already, but your brother needs to understand a very simple MA calculus: if he wants to get this gun into his house, he MUST get an LTC if he's interested in following the law. No ifs, ands, or buts. Sounds like he wants to have his cake and eat it too: possess the gun without lifting a finger to do so legally. He can do this in about 45 states... But not this one.

That's it. End of story. The interstate transportation thing doesn't even matter if he's not willing to jump through the hoops for possession. You're giving him good advice, and you're wise to steer clear of this. If he doesn't want your help, you can't force him. It's a shame on such a nice gun, but there it is.

And that LEO of his is a real problem child.

 

[dcmdon]

You are making this up. There are no guns in NJ.

I agree with your approach. He gets an LTC and then an 03 FFL and goes and picks it up. The interim of you taking possession as an 03 FFL also makes sense. Log it into your book, add it to your collection. In a year or so when you decide to upgrade your collection or otherwise get tired of it, you can transfer it to your brother who now has his LTC. That scenario does not even require he get an 03.

If I had been asked privately what to do, I'd have suggested he just go get the gun, then get an LTC. If he was of an age where he could have owned it before the requiement to FA10 it, then just be done with it. If he is too young to have lawfully received a firearm without an FA10, then he should register it immediately after he gets the LTC.

But now that its on a public forum, he must follow the law to the letter.

Which would be

1) Get a LTC.
2) Ship the gun to a FFL in MA.
3) Effect the transfer at the FFL.

 

[Hoover]

I just talked to him and his LEO friend told him to just drive to NJ put it in his trunk and drive home and keep it in his house, the LEO says no problem. Sounds like that is what he might do, although he did ask me what the procedure to get an LTC is after I explained everything to him. I also mentioned that his HS age daughter may be trustworthy but what about her boyfriends?

Of course he cannot buy ammo for it because he doesn't have a FID or LTC.

Myself I worry too much and don't look good in orange, I wouldn't transport a handgun interstate without a license and bring it to live in Mass without a license. But that is just me. He is free white and over 21 so he can do what he wants but...

That LEO "friend" sounds swell. Not only does his advice violate MA state law but he won't be covered by FOPA since he isn't legal in either NJ or MA.

You should tell him to look some NJ articles on Shaneen Allen http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/28/s...s-sentencing-guidance-for-gun-law-violations/

And google the no license charges for MA. At a minimum, he'd lose the gun forever, but how much else depends.

MA gun laws suck but until they are gone, your brother is a dope to even consider that LEO's advice.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

If I had been asked privately what to do, I'd have suggested he just go get the gun, then get an LTC. If he was of an age where he could have owned it before the requiement to FA10 it, then just be done with it. If he is too young to have lawfully received a firearm without an FA10, then he should register it immediately after he gets the LTC.

But now that its on a public forum, he must follow the law to the letter.

Which would be

1) Get a LTC.
2) Ship the gun to a FFL in MA.
3) Effect the transfer at the FFL.

I think my brother is going to take my advice that he get an LTC. My wife is going to take the course at Cabela's along with my son Little Joe's girlfriend and my brother said he would like to take it at that time also.
Turns out the mother in law isn't in a huge rush to get it out of the house so he has time to get a LTC and then go get the gun. A friend who is from there however said he would drive anything through NJ and NY he would have it shipped. but once he is legal in Mass he can just go get it and keep me out of it.

thanks for all the advice guys.

 

[spt_1955]

I just talked to him and his LEO friend told him to just drive to NJ put it in his trunk and drive home and keep it in his house, the LEO says no problem. Sounds like that is what he might do, although he did ask me what the procedure to get an LTC is after I explained everything to him. I also mentioned that his HS age daughter may be trustworthy but what about her boyfriends?

Of course he cannot buy ammo for it because he doesn't have a FID or LTC.

Myself I worry too much and don't look good in orange, I wouldn't transport a handgun interstate without a license and bring it to live in Mass without a license. But that is just me. He is free white and over 21 so he can do what he wants but...

Free .. white .. and over 21 with a license to be stupid...

I have an LTC in MA and I would not drive through NJ and NY with a gun in my car. (and yes I understand FOPA).

AS for the LEO . you know what they say. with friends like that..........

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Yes the LEO advice is sort of like my telling people you can safely eat the broken cookies because all the calories have leaked out and evaporated!

Don't laugh it is true, which is why I weight 268

 

[Picton]

But now that its on a public forum, he must follow the law to the letter.

Which would be

1) Get a LTC.
2) Ship the gun to a FFL in MA.
3) Effect the transfer at the FFL.

Alas, it's a Colt. So it won't be on The List. An 03 FFL is going to be necessary... Again, IF the brother is interested in following that part of the law.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

I just talked to him and his LEO friend told him to just drive to NJ put it in his trunk and drive home and keep it in his house, the LEO says no problem. .

I stand by my previous statement, but rescind one possibility.


Glad to hear that he decided to heed your advice and get the license. Good luck.