While dangling from parachute cords?
http://worldwarwings.com/bailed-out-and-shot-at-this-pilot-made-a-historical-kill
http://worldwarwings.com/bailed-out-and-shot-at-this-pilot-made-a-historical-kill
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Legit? WWII Liberator pilot shoots down zero with a 1911?
- Thread starter jtnf
- Start date
hmmm, I heard crazier stories, unless they recovered the pilot and determined his cause of death (45 slug) ... even at stall speed, zero would be moving pretty fast past the pilot.
may be the Jap had a stroke when he saw pilot huge balls hanging in the air.
may be the Jap had a stroke when he saw pilot huge balls hanging in the air.
MisterHappy
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Found a source that says stall is 55 kts.
http://www.aviastar.org/air/japan/mitsubishi_a6m.php
Boris' explanation is most likely right.![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
http://www.aviastar.org/air/japan/mitsubishi_a6m.php
Boris' explanation is most likely right.
AHM
NES Member
...from which we get the term, Condition Zero.
My father was a tail gunner in an SBD Dauntless dive bomber for almost a year. He said he probably fired a quarter million bullets and didn't think they hit anything but the ground.
Max speed was 250 mph and he said the Zeros would dive past so fast he could barely swing the gun. (Some SBD's had dual 30's, some single).
Max speed was 250 mph and he said the Zeros would dive past so fast he could barely swing the gun. (Some SBD's had dual 30's, some single).
Glockster30
NES Member
You don't think so? Try doing it when you're in a parachute falling about 15 mph with the wind buffeting you back and forth. An easy shot, my a$$.
Glockster30
NES Member
Okay, that makes more sense. The pilot in the Zero pulled up into a stall when Baggett shot him. Pulling up into a stall is not the same as flying at just above stall speed.
Interesting link with the bigger back story.
The fact that the guy himself acts this way:
"Retired Colonel Baggett, now living in San Antonio, Tex., believes he shot down the Japanese pilot, but because that judgment is based on largely indirect and circumstantial evidence, he remains reluctant to talk much about it."
And this:
"Col. Harry Melton, commander of the 311th Fighter Group who had been shot down, passed through the POW camp and told Baggett that a Japanese colonel said the pilot Owen Baggett had fired at had been thrown clear of his plane when it crashed and burned. He was found dead of a single bullet in his head."
The fact that the guy himself acts this way:
"Retired Colonel Baggett, now living in San Antonio, Tex., believes he shot down the Japanese pilot, but because that judgment is based on largely indirect and circumstantial evidence, he remains reluctant to talk much about it."
And this:
"Col. Harry Melton, commander of the 311th Fighter Group who had been shot down, passed through the POW camp and told Baggett that a Japanese colonel said the pilot Owen Baggett had fired at had been thrown clear of his plane when it crashed and burned. He was found dead of a single bullet in his head."
Glockster30
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MisterHappy
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Don't know how tough a plastic canopy is WRT .45 ACP ammo, but it wlll go through the old-style steel helmet.
My dad had an argument with another soldier, as to whether it would stop a .45.
Guy put his helmet down, my dad put a round through it, then said, "Now, go explain that to the QM!"
My dad had an argument with another soldier, as to whether it would stop a .45.
Guy put his helmet down, my dad put a round through it, then said, "Now, go explain that to the QM!"
fencer
NES Member
Don't know how tough a plastic canopy is WRT .45 ACP ammo, but it wlll go through the old-style steel helmet.
My dad had an argument with another soldier, as to whether it would stop a .45.
Guy put his helmet down, my dad put a round through it, then said, "Now, go explain that to the QM!"
LOL - I know the new Kevlar helmet will stop a 45 and a 9mm, but I am guessing you would have one helluva headache!
Glockster30
NES Member
Don't know how tough a plastic canopy is WRT .45 ACP ammo, but it wlll go through the old-style steel helmet.
My dad had an argument with another soldier, as to whether it would stop a .45.
Guy put his helmet down, my dad put a round through it, then said, "Now, go explain that to the QM!"
That's funny...chalk up one helmet to friendly fire.
A .45 would probably take down a Zero too because every effort towards weight reduction to make it fast and maneuverable also left it vulnerable without any armor or structural support.
I know a guy that proved that. He shot his Kevlar. He was an officer, but also a decent guy.
My step father died a couple years back. He was one hell of a nice guy to my mother. He was a ball turret gunner on in a b24. Not only did they blow up dams. Of which he described how he had to relay when the lights under the plane met so they knew what altitude to drop the spinning bomb. He also shot down 7 German planes. He only told me because he was dying and wanted to be forgiven on some level. I was in the army and he and I shared some experiences. So shooting a zero pilot in the face isn't something to be proud of and the colonel probably would have rather forgotten about it. People that have know what I'm saying, the others won't
We'd just gotten the Kevlar helmets when a Ranger got shot point-blank by an AKM during the Granada invasion and the helmet deflected it.
I called it, "The shot heard 'round the world," because everyone in the Army heard the story within 24 hours.
The A6M Zero burns easily because most of the aircraft was magnesium, no self sealing tanks are also a great incentive to get the flames going. No armor for the pilot or critical systems was yet another bonus to aid in putting the Zero into the ground, (or sea).
AHM
NES Member
Cite?
The airframe was aluminum but used some magnesium fittings and other parts. Some German planes used much more, including magnesium engine mounts and wing panels. American aircraft also used a variety of magnesium forgings. Early B29 crankshafts were made of magnesium forgings, until they started burning off the wings......
It's likely the Zero's vulnerability to fire was the combination of large fuel capacity and non self-sealing tanks, as well as the flammability of other components and the lack of any fire suppression systems. I also learned that many Japanese pilots did not wear parachutes, so one downed Zero = one lost pilot.
It's likely the Zero's vulnerability to fire was the combination of large fuel capacity and non self-sealing tanks, as well as the flammability of other components and the lack of any fire suppression systems. I also learned that many Japanese pilots did not wear parachutes, so one downed Zero = one lost pilot.
