Johnston RI concealed carry permit

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Has anyone here applied for a concealed carry permit in the town of Johnston by chance?? Picked up my application packet a few days ago. I am considering using attorney Keith Langer to assist me with the application preparation, or possibly doing one of Daria's application packages which includes the qualification. However, at a cost of $650 for the lawyer, or $350 for Daria...I am first trying to find out from anyone who may of applied how the town of Johnston responded.

I spoke to attorney Keith Langer on the phone last week and it sounds like he would be a good force to have by my side, but obviously I would rather not spend all that money if I don't have to. I'd rather buy me a new 1911 with all that cash!!

Any feedback would be appreciated!!
 
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So, I've got some recent information on this. Johnston as always been a problem, but they seem to have recently gotten the memo. I've got it on very good authority that they're issuing licenses now as the law requires. The police chief hasn't changed, but city government now has several important 2A supporters.
 

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So, I've got some recent information on this. Johnston as always been a problem, but they seem to have recently gotten the memo. I've got it on very good authority that they're issuing licenses now as the law requires. The police chief hasn't changed, but city government now has several important 2A supporters.
Are non-residents included in this?
 
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So, I've got some recent information on this. Johnston as always been a problem, but they seem to have recently gotten the memo. I've got it on very good authority that they're issuing licenses now as the law requires. The police chief hasn't changed, but city government now has several important 2A supporters.
Thank you, good to know. Like to hear some other experiences as well. When I spoke to attorney Langer he expressed that a major problem is application preparation. If you forget to include a small detail or try to go overboard expressing "need" then a denial is almost certain at first until you appeal and fix whatever problem. But it seems if your application is prepared correctly while crossing all the T's and dotting all your I's they pretty much have to issue it. Some wheels (towns) need a bit more grease than others to get it done.
 
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Johnston has recently started issuing permits. There is no requirement to take a class with Daria (or anyone else for that matter), but if you want to get qualified and learn more about RI CCW then go ahead. I certainly would NOT spend $650 to have Langer look over your application since I am not impressed with his knowledge of RI gun laws and RI case law.
Just fill in the application yourself and apply and use the money to buy another gun or some more ammo.
If you have any questions, I am sure there are people here on this forum that can help.
 

n1bsbri

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I would add to what newportri said that Daria would be a good resource if you need some training. She has also helped quite a few people through the process. Training is always good, so in that respect it wouldn't be wasted money if you need it.

But you should be able to fill out the application and submit it with minimal outside help. It's generally not that complicated, and I don't think Langer's or Daria's involvement will improve your outcome that much.

newportri is a great source of info, and I'm sure he will be willing to give you some guidance if you get stuck. As will I, but he's more of what we would call an expert. [smile]
 
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Are non-residents included in this?
Well, probably because there's no distinction under the law. But someone should check. However, most have been tight-lipped about which towns are issuing to non-residents. The one town that I know that is very good is swamped with out-of-state applications. What we don't want to do is make life miserable for a cooperative PD.
 
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Johnston has recently started issuing permits. There is no requirement to take a class with Daria (or anyone else for that matter), but if you want to get qualified and learn more about RI CCW then go ahead. I certainly would NOT spend $650 to have Langer look over your application since I am not impressed with his knowledge of RI gun laws and RI case law.
Just fill in the application yourself and apply and use the money to buy another gun or some more ammo.
If you have any questions, I am sure there are people here on this forum that can help.

thank you, I guess my main concern is the 3 reference letters and wording the "need"....I thought maybe the assistance could be beneficial. however, with your support it sounds like I could handle it myself. I would just hate to go through the appeal process if I could avoid it.
 
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The three reference letters should not be a big deal, just write them yourself and have your friends sign them (unless the application specifically states that you cannot write them). I have never seen any guidelines (from the licensing authorities) on what the reference letters are supposed to say, so if the Chief is not happy with the content that is his problem. If your references want to write a lengthy letter, then this is not a problem either, but the reference letters are usually what holds up the application process when there is no need for it. It can be something like this:
I have known John Doe for xxx years and to the best of my knowledge he/she meets all the requirements in 11-47-11 and is a suitable person to obtain a pistol permit
I have yet to hear about anyone being denied a permit because their reference letters were not "good enough".
Most applications says the applicant needs to demonstrate a "need", but this is not a requirement under 11-47-11 so it is not really relevant. However, you do need to provide a "proper reason". "Proper reason" is not defined in 11-47, so there are some different interpretations on what this is. However, the RI Supreme Court has stated that being a Gun Collector is a proper reason. I also think that self defense is a proper reason. The strict transportation laws in RI could also be another proper reason. If you intend to get a permit from another State who require you to have your resident permit first could also be a proper reason.
 
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So what do you recommend I say for the "facts to determine fear or injury to person or property" page of the application? It asks for the following:

-Explain the circumstances and extent of the threat or injury to your person which is the reason for this request to carry a concealed weapon.

-Explain the circumstances and extent of the threat of or the extent of damage to your property which would require you to carry a loaded concealed weapon.
 

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So what do you recommend I say for the "facts to determine fear or injury to person or property" page of the application? It asks for the following:

-Explain the circumstances and extent of the threat or injury to your person which is the reason for this request to carry a concealed weapon.

-Explain the circumstances and extent of the threat of or the extent of damage to your property which would require you to carry a loaded concealed weapon.
Here's an excerpt from the opinion in Gadomski vs. Tavarres - RI Supreme Court 2014, which address this "need" requirement. Emphasis mine.

While Tavares’s denial letter refers, albeit in a perfunctory manner, to the components of
§ 11-47-11, there appears to have been error in respondent’s underlying analysis. As conceded
by respondent’s counsel at oral argument, an incorrect standard was utilized in conducting the
review of petitioner’s application. Indeed, a perusal of East Providence’s written policy on the
carrying of weapons reveals that it is an inappropriate amalgamation of §§ 11-47-11 and 11-47-
18. As we have said, “[t]wo separate and distinct licensing procedures are set forth in the
Firearms Act.” Mosby, 851 A.2d at 1047. Yet, the policy asserts that an applicant must
demonstrate a proper showing of need and lists verbatim the same factors that are considered by
the Attorney General in assessing whether an applicant has made such a showing of need.
Demonstration of a proper showing of need, which is a requirement under § 11-47-18, is not a
component of § 11-47-11.
 
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Well, neither of those are statutory requirements so I wouldn't put too much effort into them. I don't know anything about you are the circumstances around the reason for wanting a CCW, but here are my thoughts on the questions.
The first refers to "the threat or injury" and might not apply to you. If you have any specific threats to you or if you have been assaulted then you should mention this. Otherwise, you can say that you would just like to be prepared in case your life is in danger. If your job lifestyle (ie has a job where you handle large amounts of cash) you can say you could be a target of someone who knows this.
The second question is also similarly vague since there isn't anything that would "require" you to carry a firearm.. It's a personal choice to protect your own life.
The questions are taken from the AG's application, but should really have been removed.

Edit: As n1bsbri also said, these are not requirements and you don't have to answer the questions. However, if you at least answer the questions it is less likely that the process is slowed down or that the Chief claims the application is incomplete and that the process take even longer than it needs to.
 
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Thank you for the responses. I will answer the questions short and vague indicating I just would like to be prepared if my life were ever in danger.

I do not have a job that requires carrying of a firearm, and I have not been threatened nor is it the reason I would like to obtain a ccw license. I have had a class A LTC in MA for 11 years in good standing with no issues, unrestricted. The issuing officer who I am friends with in MA is writing a reference letter for me as we speak on department letter head. Stating that I am suitable to carry and control a loaded firearm, that he has known me for 11 years, that he was the officer who issued my license in MA and I have never been in any trouble regarding firearms use or posession. He is also going to state that my MA license was issued for "all lawful purposes" and should be reason enough for me to obtain my concealed carry license in RI.

In addition, in my 2 notorized copies of photo identification I have included my MA LTC so they can see that I was actively licensed in MA up until the time I moved to RI.

Lastly, there was mention that I do not need to qualify with an instructor with johnston, however it does state in the app packet to provide qualification certification.
 

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I believe the "Qualification" may be done by any NRA or police instructor, and takes 30 rounds of ammo and one target. I have done several for RI applicants. It shouldn't cost anywhere near $350 for the qualification (I can do it for free, but you would have to drive up to the DPRM)
 
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Qual can be done by any NRA instructor, I highly suggest loading one round at time and using the full 30 minutes. If you can keep all rounds within the 7 ring you should be in good shape.

Loading one at a time forces you to breath and stay concentrated, I've seen too many top off and spray the target in 30 seconds wondering why they failed.

Keep in mind you can only carry with the caliber you qualified with or smaller in RI so suggestion would be to qual with a .45


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Didn't mean the previous post as being sarcastic, but rather a point of reference to the going rate of $50.

Back on topic, the only statuary requirements under 11-47-11:
-a person twenty-one (21) years of age or over (which you are I assume)
-having a bona fide residence or place of business within the city or town
or
of any person twenty-one (21) years of age or over having a bona fide residence within the United States and a license or permit to carry a pistol or revolver concealed upon his or her person issued by the authorities of any other state or subdivision of the United States,

The applicant must:
-have good reason to fear an injury to his or her person or property
or
-has any other proper reason for carrying a pistol or revolver (The Mosby decision stated that being a collector was proper reason and the Gadomski decision upheld that).
-he or she is a suitable person to be so licensed (The wording is vague and nowhere in RIGL is suitable defined, however the Mosby case touches on it:
 
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How would I fair claiming I am a gun collector if i only own 2 guns....I have a rough draft put together for my letter of need. I basically explained that I have been a MA LTC holder for 10 years up until I moved to MA and would like my right to carry a concealed weapon transferred over to my new state of residence and that my reason for issuance is all lawful purposes.
 
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I recently applied in Johnston as well, notirization is important as it was asked before I turned in everything. It's tough to come up with a need for you to put down but they seemed very positive to me

Overall I will say when I went in the whole process went extremely pleasant.

Anyone have an idea how they are doing on processing times?


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Yes, I think that's fair to claim you are a gun collector.
You live in RI now, right (your post above was a little confusing to me)?
You are not 'transferring' your permit, but you are applying for a permit in RI.
Would you like to get a MA permit (assuming you are a RI resident)? If so, you can say you would like a RI permit so you can apply for a MA permit since MA requires that you have a resident permit from your home state.
 
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Yes, I am now in RI. I did not put that I want to transfer my permit, I simply put that I would like to transfer my right to carry concealed weapon to my new state of residence Rhode Island. I also indicated that I would like to apply for my MA non-resident permit which would require me to obtain my license in Rhode Island first.

- - - Updated - - -

I recently applied in Johnston as well, notirization is important as it was asked before I turned in everything. It's tough to come up with a need for you to put down but they seemed very positive to me

Overall I will say when I went in the whole process went extremely pleasant.

Anyone have an idea how they are doing on processing times?


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I am getting everything notarized, copies of I.D., reference letters, application packet, letter of need....EVERYTHING
 
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How would I fair claiming I am a gun collector if i only own 2 guns....I have a rough draft put together for my letter of need. I basically explained that I have been a MA LTC holder for 10 years up until I moved to MA and would like my right to carry a concealed weapon transferred over to my new state of residence and that my reason for issuance is all lawful purposes.
It doesn't matter, Mosby was a collector and he didn't have a C&R and that was clarified by the courts as being a proper reason.
 
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Yes, I am now in RI. I did not put that I want to transfer my permit, I simply put that I would like to transfer my right to carry concealed weapon to my new state of residence Rhode Island. I also indicated that I would like to apply for my MA non-resident permit which would require me to obtain my license in Rhode Island first.

- - - Updated - - -



I am getting everything notarized, copies of I.D., reference letters, application packet, letter of need....EVERYTHING
Again, When you apply under 11-47-11, the show of need is not a part of it. This was upheld in the Gadomski decision:
While Tavares’s denial letter refers, albeit in a perfunctory manner, to the components of § 11-47-11, there appears to have been error in respondent’s underlying analysis. As conceded by respondent’s counsel at oral argument, an incorrect standard was utilized in conducting the review of petitioner’s application. Indeed, a perusal of East Providence’s written policy on the carrying of weapons reveals that it is an inappropriate amalgamation of §§ 11-47-11 and 11-47-18. As we have said, “[t]wo separate and distinct licensing procedures are set forth in the Firearms Act.” Mosby, 851 A.2d at 1047. Yet, the policy asserts that an applicant must demonstrate a proper showing of need and lists verbatim the same factors that are considered by the Attorney General in assessing whether an applicant has made such a showing of need.
Demonstration of a proper showing of need, which is a requirement under § 11-47-18, is not a component of § 11-47-11.
The same could be said about reference letters......
 
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I recently applied in Johnston as well, notirization is important as it was asked before I turned in everything. It's tough to come up with a need for you to put down but they seemed very positive to me

Overall I will say when I went in the whole process went extremely pleasant.

Anyone have an idea how they are doing on processing times?


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I would like to know how they are doing with processing times as well...it says on the app to allow 90 days.
 
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