Is a locked, center console a legal place to temporarily leave a pistol in Massachusetts?

[Picton]

Your "not even slightly" should be changed to "it depends".

Anyway, the mental gymnastics on NES are off the charts.

Meh. I was replying to an absolute statement, one that's not even slightly correct.

And yes. The pantshitters are in control of the toilet-paper supply here lately.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Lol. Not even slightly.

If a post office is in a strip mall, as many of them are, then the parking lot is the strip mall owner's property. If the post office is a bank annex, as it is in my town, then the parking lot is the bank's property.

If it's a freestanding PO, then MAYBE the parking lot is "federal property." It's just as likely to be owned by the town, or by a developer. It's likely that the loading dock and the driveway leading to it are "federal property," but it's not like you're parking there.

Who cares? I'm another one who doesn't bother disarming when going to the PO. Hypothetically. I mean, anyone truly worried about getting nicked by the feds for leaving a pistol in the car of a parking lot is not being sensical.

It's really a matter of exclusive control. If the parking lot or building is leased by the USPS, that is unlikely to be a defense against carry on federal property. The main Framingham post office has a dedicated parking lot.

 

[greencobra]

I’ve never disarmed to walk into a post office.

or the police station or city hall...

The parking lot of the post office is federal property.

it has to be posted with those u.s. property signs. my local p.o. has a fenced in area in back, posted with signs and there are a few spots there to park for the general public. i believe it started life as a postal employee lot. now there's hardly any employees. out front there's street parking. the post office says those spots are reserved for post office patrons, particularly the handicap spots. i've been round and round with them over that cause you can't reserve a handicap spot for a business on a public street, but you could reserve them if they were in back in the gated, posted lot. i've been to the local police's traffic division over this and they agreed with me and forcing the p.o. to stop putting threatening warnings on windshields of cars parked in h.p. spaces out front.

 

[Asaltweapon]

or the police station or city hall...

it has to be posted with those u.s. property signs. my local p.o. has a fenced in area in back, posted with signs and there are a few spots there to park for the general public. i believe it started life as a postal employee lot. now there's hardly any employees. out front there's street parking. the post office says those spots are reserved for post office patrons, particularly the handicap spots. i've been round and round with them over that cause you can't reserve a handicap spot for a business on a public street, but you could reserve them if they were in back in the gated, posted lot. i've been to the local police's traffic division over this and they agreed with me and forcing the p.o. to stop putting threatening warnings on windshields of cars parked in h.p. spaces out front.

Yes to both places including shooting the shit in the office of a great shooter who was also the COP and a close friend. He always said if the SHTF he was coming to my house for more and better firepower.

Rarely at town hall because those people always sucked liquid ass juice. I’ve never hated more people in a single building more than that shit hole. There were only 4 people who I enjoyed being near who were really normal and they hated the same people I did.
I wouldn’t even step foot into the BOH area I hated that bun headed bitch so bad. Spent thousands having the engineering company deal with their Nazi ways.

 

[Len-2A Training]

How many post offices are actually on government property? Most post offices in my area are leased
To the government by private owners

True but irrelevant to this discussion. The USPO does NOT own post offices. They are leased by GAO (?) for use by the USPO. ANY property with federal offices in it becomes "a federal building" for the anti-gun purposes discussed here.

If it has a dedicated parking area, that is also federal property. This case was heard in a CO US District Court and ruled as such. It was discussed here when that happened (probably 12-15 yrs ago).

Police officer opinions are irrelevant.

True. BUT a PO makes the decision to arrest (a mark that stays on your record forever in MA) and the DA decides whether or not to go forward with a prosecution. In any case you end up with a "mark of Cain" and large legal bills if this happens, regardless of eventual outcome.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

or the police station or city hall...

Not yet prohibited places in MA, though Boston uses a checkpoint to deny entry to the lawfully armed.

But, some or all public buildings are in the current 4420 rewrite draft.

 

[greencobra]

Not yet prohibited places in MA,

posted in my city....although no chrck points.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

posted in my city....although no chrck points.

And no section of MGL you could be cited for.

 

[greencobra]

And no section of MGL you could be cited for.

don't have the money to take it to court to prove a point

 

[Broc]

True. BUT a PO makes the decision to arrest (a mark that stays on your record forever in MA) and the DA decides whether or not to go forward with a prosecution. In any case you end up with a "mark of Cain" and large legal bills if this happens, regardless of eventual outcome.

Do you really think a cop, in MA, wouldn't arrest someone if they somehow find he has an unattended gun in the car in the center console?

For them to find the gun, it means they were most likely searching the car, so you are most likely getting arrested.

 

[gerrycaruso]

police officer opinions are not irrelevant because they have the power (justified or not) to ruin your day by locking you up.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Do you really think a cop, in MA, wouldn't arrest someone if they somehow find he has an unattended gun in the car in the center console?

For them to find the gun, it means they were most likely searching the car, so you are most likely getting arrested.

Or the person was stupid enough to announce that they had a gun and where it is located.

 

[MisterHappy]

It's really a matter of exclusive control. If the parking lot or building is leased by the USPS, that is unlikely to be a defense against carry on federal property. The main Framingham post office has a dedicated parking lot.

Just to muddy the waters, as to what constitutes Federal Property, the Social Security office in Framingham is upstairs in a commercial block. Last time I was there, there were "No Firearms" signs, and an armed, uniformed guard that was doing an excellent job of holding a chair to the floor.

They seemed to think that rented space was their property.

 

[MisterHappy]

REYES, COMMONWEALTH vs., 464 Mass. 245

masscases.com

Nobody knows.

"This does not resolve whether a locked glove compartment might be adequate under the storage statute. We are of the view that it might depending on the particular factual circumstances including the nature of the locking mechanism, whether the motor vehicle was also locked and alarmed, and ultimately whether in the circumstances it was adequate to "deter all but the most persistent from gaining access." This is a question of fact, properly decided by the fact finder at trial."

I'm curious - where did that bit of language come from? AFAIK, it's not in any of the (current) MGLs.

 

[drgrant]

Or the person was stupid enough to announce that they had a gun and where it is located.

The happy fun ball thing is as if like a dude is sitting is his car with a gun in the console with his arm on the thing you could kind of argue that he had it under control but as soon as a cop gets the guy out of the car he's basically placed the guy in violation. So you have a legal scenario that unfolds that's basically induced by the police officer. Whereas at least with on body carry the douche RoboCop idiot is going to disarm you when you could claim that control changed over to the officer immediately when he confiscated the handgun.....

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Just to muddy the waters, as to what constitutes Federal Property, the Social Security office in Framingham is upstairs in a commercial block. Last time I was there, there were "No Firearms" signs, and an armed, uniformed guard that was doing an excellent job of holding a chair to the floor.

They seemed to think that rented space was their property.

For the purpose of the federal ban on US Federal Govt property, it almost certainly is - amateurish reading of the law and persons making declarations based on their literal English interpretation of the law having to real relevance. Remember, a federal court has held that "except incidental to lawful purposes" does NOT include lawful protective concealed carry, even though lawful (still digging for the cite).

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Just to muddy the waters, as to what constitutes Federal Property, the Social Security office in Framingham is upstairs in a commercial block. Last time I was there, there were "No Firearms" signs, and an armed, uniformed guard that was doing an excellent job of holding a chair to the floor.

They seemed to think that rented space was their property.

No longer. It now has dedicated (probably rental space) on Clarks Hill Ln in Framingham. It's a two or three story brick multi-purpose building with a large part occupied by SS. They still have an armed chair anchor but, unlike the older place in downtown Framingham, you have to sit in a booth and talk through glass - not across a desk like at the old place. It's sort of like visiting someone in prison (or at least the movies of prison visits).

 

[Matt_SERE]

The happy fun ball thing is as if like a dude is sitting is his car with a gun in the console with his arm on the thing you could kind of argue that he had it under control but as soon as a cop gets the guy out of the car he's basically placed the guy in violation. So you have a legal scenario that unfolds that's basically induced by the police officer. Whereas at least with on body carry the douche RoboCop idiot is going to disarm you when you could claim that control changed over to the officer immediately when he confiscated the handgun.....

As you exit lock and close the door. Don't know how this would go over but you have just 'stored' your pistol.

 

[nstassel]

I'm curious - where did that bit of language come from? AFAIK, it's not in any of the (current) MGLs.

It's a quote from the case I provided.

 

[M1911]

REYES, COMMONWEALTH vs., 464 Mass. 245

masscases.com

Nobody knows.

"This does not resolve whether a locked glove compartment might be adequate under the storage statute. We are of the view that it might depending on the particular factual circumstances including the nature of the locking mechanism, whether the motor vehicle was also locked and alarmed, and ultimately whether in the circumstances it was adequate to "deter all but the most persistent from gaining access." This is a question of fact, properly decided by the fact finder at trial."

The SJC had a perfect opportunity to clarify the law. Instead, those a**h***s decided to muddy the waters even further.

 

[Mesatchornug]

It's a quote from the case I provided.

So, his honorable third point of contact?

 

[nstassel]

The SJC had a perfect opportunity to clarify the law. Instead, those a**h***s decided to muddy the waters even further.

Exactly

 

[Picton]

So, his honorable third point of contact?

Fourth.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Fourth.

TIL