International perspective on guns..from some people I know...

[Bill Nance]

I'm not interested in living with another culture that I am aware of. You can keep it. Oh and alienating a shitbag by calling them a shitbag is fine with me. If you would like to strip me of my basic human right of self preservation you are a shitbag and I am not sorry to call you one, nor do I have any inclination to pursuade you or make you my friend. I am secure in my right to keep and bear arms, the Bill Of Rights says it's so, and we have that Bill Of Rights to ensure it is so. Therefore I need not the alliance of those who are determined to strip me of that right, not so long as I am determined to use it anyway.

I was going to rebut you, but then I realized that you have provided such an excellent example of why we keep losing our rights, it isn't necessary.

 

[Jose]

Why would I be interested in changing the minds of foreigners? Their opinions bear no weight in our internal affairs.

I frankly could not care less what anyone outside of the US thinks of our gun culture. Their opinion simply is of zero consequence.

 

[mikem317]

1. Most reasonable people will acknowledge with the fact that all human beings, since the first one set foot in Mesopotamia a few hundred thousand years ago, have a natural right to self-defense.

2. And humans are distinctly separate from their animal brethren in that we can manufacturer tools to serve some end. We have manufactured sophisticated farming equipment to cultivate and harvest food; We have manufactured telephones and a telecommunication infrastructure to communicate with otherwise distant parties; We have manufactured computers to complete otherwise complex and repetitive tasks that ought to be automated to enhance throughput and mitigate human error. Cats, dogs and monkeys don't make tools. Humans do. We are the most complex machine on planet Earth, and that's come about by our vastly superior cognitive abilities.

Humans have also manufactured tools to provide for self-defense; an obvious example are firearms. Yes, they are designed to stop an inescapable deadly threat, up to and including claiming a life of the perpetrator. Unfortunately, these tools can fall into the wrong hands, like those that engage in criminal activity like armed robbery, rape, murder, kidnap, ad nausem.

I think this is lost on some of our global neighbors. Just keep educating. You might win them over.

 

[BOBKATT]

I was going to rebut you, but then I realized that you have provided such an excellent example of why we keep losing our rights, it isn't necessary.

I am thankful that you were not on my debate team. And sorrowful that you were not an opponent.

 

[Negotiator]

In reality, the 5.56 mm round was designed specifically to NOT kill people. They wanted a high velocity, small, FMJ bullet that would make a clean hole. From a military standpoint, its better to injure than kill because it requires more resources to care for an injured soldier. It also satisfies the Geneva convention.

Not sure where you are getting that information from. The 5.56 Spitzer type projectile, like most of that shape, will tend to yaw on hitting flesh, especially at velocities around 820 m/s, thereby creating a larger wound channel. It is also designed to fragment around the cannelure , sending fragments into the surrounding tissue. It's origins are well documented and not being a lethal round ( which would be sub standard from a tactical perspective) would ensure it did not last long in service. It is true that it delivers less kinetic energy than the 7.62 X 51 round it replaced as a NATO standard, and that when fired from shorter barreled weapons tends to under perform in terms of stopping power. It is also true that being a lot lighter than the 7.62 round, the poor infantryman can carry more ammo But as for being designed to not kill, you'll need to dig up some specifics to support the non lethal route... and what part of the Geneva convention does it support? Being a FMJ is part of that yes, but what else???

 

[June4th]

Why would I be interested in changing the minds of foreigners? Their opinions bear no weight in our internal affairs.

I frankly could not care less what anyone outside of the US thinks of our gun culture. Their opinion simply is of zero consequence.

Right on! Except we seem to be hellbent on exporting 'freedom and democracy' everywhere else though.

It ought to be a prerequisite that if you want to be left alone, leave others alone.

 

[Jose]

Some Europeans have the balls to think they should have a vote in our elections because the US government's actions "affect the whole world".

I have news for you, Europe: go f-ck yourselves. If you want to check our influence, grow to be a superpower. But you won't, because you are too lazy, too pacifist, and too socialist to do the hard work necessary to be so.

The caliphate will be upon you soon enough, anyway.

 

[Jrob24]

Bill I think you made some good points but overlooked an important point. The US has more people who live in violent urban criminal subcultures. These cultures grew because of the war on drugs and decline of personal responsibility. Gun control laws don't address these issues and are ineffective.

Also you should stress that law abiding people are more likely to use a gun in self defense than commit a crime.

 

[mikem317]

Some Europeans have the balls to think they should have a vote in our elections because the US government's actions "affect the whole world".

Let them think that all they want.

Then hand them a Constitution.

 

[WILDCATT]

crime?????

Having lived most all my life in Mass and now in the south I have a few ideas on the crime situation.one its a cultural thing,ever since the 60s the morality has gone down.more children grow up with out fathers so have no male model.they hang out in gangs. two the black race has gone down in morals worse that whites .I live in a 63% black county and murder is common.look at Boston blacks are a large part and the crime rate is high.I lived in roxbury for yrs.when the mafia controled it there was low crime they did not allow it as it brought heat they did not want.[it had some good points]all the big cities have large black population and high crime.check out the mass statistics.or any other city.I was supprised to see Chicago listed as 58% black.and check population of prisons as to the ratio.

 

[Jose]

Having lived most all my life in Mass and now in the south I have a few ideas on the crime situation.one its a cultural thing,ever since the 60s the morality has gone down.more children grow up with out fathers so have no male model.they hang out in gangs. two the black race has gone down in morals worse that whites .I live in a 63% black county and murder is common.look at Boston blacks are a large part and the crime rate is high.I lived in roxbury for yrs.when the mafia controled it there was low crime they did not allow it as it brought heat they did not want.[it had some good points]all the big cities have large black population and high crime.check out the mass statistics.or any other city.I was supprised to see Chicago listed as 58% black.and check population of prisons as to the ratio.

Stand by to be called a racist. Not by me, though.

 

[Biggsy]

I agree with the stricter gun laws=higher crime. I also know we incarcerate more people than most other civilized nations/countries. But I attribute a lot of our violence on a few things.

I was involved in a court case where I was the plaintiff. I sat in a city court for a few days and in those three days I heard cases from simple assault to attempted murder. In those three days I did not see one person sent to jail. They were all given probation, suspended sentences, and fines??? There is very little punishment for crime in this country! I am an electrician and have been involved in wiring 3 courthouses in the last 5 years, prisons-none??

The USAs crime problem is a lot more involved than just guns/gun control! With the crime problem and punishment or lack there of I am glad I have the constitutional right to arms to defend myself against all enemies, foreign and domestic!![/QUOTE

I think most people would be surprised at how little prison time inmates get for their offenses. And how many second chances (in the form of probation, suspended sentences, guilty files, dismissed cases) they get before they actually do any time. When drug dealers are doing more time than rapists there is a problem. Not only will the government not protect you from criminals, they won't punish them either.

 

[sig shooter]

Having lived most all my life in Mass and now in the south I have a few ideas on the crime situation.one its a cultural thing,ever since the 60s the morality has gone down.more children grow up with out fathers so have no male model.they hang out in gangs. two the black race has gone down in morals worse that whites .I live in a 63% black county and murder is common.look at Boston blacks are a large part and the crime rate is high.I lived in roxbury for yrs.when the mafia controled it there was low crime they did not allow it as it brought heat they did not want.[it had some good points]all the big cities have large black population and high crime.check out the mass statistics.or any other city.I was supprised to see Chicago listed as 58% black.and check population of prisons as to the ratio.

i think you could of expressed your self better. violence comes from all different races it knows no bounds. what i think your trying to get at is that the whole problem is urban welfare culture of no personal responsibility and also the culture of modern hip hop/rap which promotes violence,drug and alcohol abuse,gangs,greed,theft and not snitching. i don't think that kind of music(if thats what you want to call it) should be banned but i do think it sends a bad message to young impressionable youth, basicly a message of " get rich or die trying". using another race as a scapegoat has been used since the beggining of time by dictators and muderers and it holds no water remember that!.

just remember that other people who dont show there faces and might be reporters or the AG may be reading these forums so watch what you say so it does not back up the bad sterotypes of gun owners that we see in the media.

 

[maee]

i think you could of expressed your self better.

I think you could have expressed yourself better.

 

[sig shooter]

I think you could have expressed yourself better.

oh shit here come the spelling nazi's

 

[Roastie]

I really liked the pea comment, I wonder if there is a correlation?
Just to be safe I am running up to NH to buy some peas in bulk!