Interesting Admission from a Police Officer on "Today"

[MassMark]

I really can't disagree with your premise here, if you have put yourself in a situation and broken some law, you will have to deal with the consiquences of that. You being a lawfull gun owner doesn't exempt you from all other laws...

Unsuitable is a law?

Hypothetical time: I am strolling down the street in your town - minding my own business - shopping, walking my dog, enjoying the sunshine. Then comes a sheepie punching 911 with a: "Oh my God! A man with a gun on Main Street!" call. You are the responding officer and find me whiling away my time sitting on a park bench, sipping on a cup of coffee and basking in the beautiful spring day. On my hip is a clearly open carried HK USP45f, (my fave!). What is your plan of action. Likewise, I am a citizen of your town and you are the CLEO who has just received a flood of calls from sheepies aghast at the thought of a man on Main Street with a gun...What is your plan of action. Honesty please....

Lastly, do you believe there is a middle here? Can you indeed be a law enforcement officer and not enforce infringement and not pushing boundaries of unreasonable? Not trying to draw you in - I really want your opinion on this....

 

[securityboy]

Unsuitable is a law?....

I never said it was...

Hypothetical time: I am strolling down the street in your town - minding my own business - shopping, walking my dog, enjoying the sunshine. Then comes a sheepie punching 911 with a: "Oh my God! A man with a gun on Main Street!" call. You are the responding officer and find me whiling away my time sitting on a park bench, sipping on a cup of coffee and basking in the beautiful spring day. On my hip is a clearly open carried HK USP45f, (my fave!). What is your plan of action. Likewise, I am a citizen of your town and you are the CLEO who has just received a flood of calls from sheepies aghast at the thought of a man on Main Street with a gun...What is your plan of action. Honesty please...

Clearly me and the other JBT's swarm you and drop you before know what happened OR more likely since you don't start shooting at me or take off running the second you see me I have a brief conversation with you (at which time you are never "seized") and we go our seperate ways

Lastly, do you believe there is a middle here? Can you indeed be a law enforcement officer and not enforce infringement and not pushing boundaries of unreasonable? Not trying to draw you in - I really want your opinion on this....

Hmmm, middle ground... honestly NO, but not for the reason you think. First off I honestly dont think I have ever gotten anywhere close to infringing or unreasonable. And second the "reality" of how people are, the victim is probably going to say I didn't push hard enough, and the arrestee will probably think I pushed too hard...know what I mean...

 

[Supermoto]

I never said it was...

OR more likely since you don't start shooting at me or take off running the second you see me I have a brief conversation with you (at which time you are never "seized") and we go our seperate ways

.

So this would be a voluntary conversation? What if Massmark did not answer your question, would this situation now become a investigative detention or would you let him walk away? If it became a detention, what reasonable suspicion do you have that he was engaged in criminal activity?

 

[Lamina]

this.

if you choose to be the muscle for a machine that is violating the rights of individuals which are protected by the constitution, you cannot, -in good conscience-, claim that privately you actually support those rights, and that somehow you're job and uniform give you absolution during working hours. you will be held accountable one day. by god, man, or your own conscience. or maybe just called out on an internet forum for being a hypocritical troll.

Remember that question you asked me the other day about how this line of thought applies to you?

I feel that your business is different than being directly involved in the "machine", but I cannot explain how. Where do we draw the line?

 

[Len-2A Training]

As far as car/house breaks, the police arrive to do a report so you can collect from your insurance company.

Real life ain't TV! No PD has the resources to actually investigate such crimes (unless there is a rash of them in a short period of time).

Sorry, but that's reality . . . one that I've been on both sides of.

Really!?! Is there something you need to tell us Len?

Cute!

My house was burglarized 7 days after we bought it. They were in the house until we drove up the driveway and then they bailed into the woods behind the house. I had to put up a fuss to get a detective to come out and take prints.

Five years later, I joined the PD as a Reserve PO and had to respond to calls/auto accidents . . . did a lot of report writing.

A gun club I belonged to had out-buildings broken into on a regular basis. Houses in that area were also burglarized. Police knew who did this but couldn't prove it, not enough evidence to prosecute.

Most smaller PDs don't have the people-power to investigate all these crimes, so they are stuck with witting reports for insurance only. It sure ain't like what you see on TV.

To the critics, you need to walk a mile in a LEO's shoes to understand the reality of the job and what can be done.

As would I, talk is cheap. Cops can spout off how Pro-2A they are, but when it comes time to violates someones right, we know where they stand.

Every LEO on this board would stop a person open carrying in MA. That shows me exactly where you stand on the 2A

Really???...Don't tell me what I would do...

Just like securityboy, I take offense at your callous generalization. You sure do ass-u-me a lot!

I have seen numerous people carrying a gun such that it wasn't "properly concealed" (each incident happened in a different town and nowhere where I have any jurisdiction). I have never said a word to any of them and never called the PD. They were behaving in a normal manner and thus in a few cases, I just smiled and went about my business.

 

[securityboy]

OR more likely since you don't start shooting at me or take off running the second you see me I have a brief conversation with you (at which time you are never "seized") and we go our seperate ways...

So this would be a voluntary conversation? What if Massmark did not answer your question, would this situation now become a investigative detention or would you let him walk away? If it became a detention, what reasonable suspicion do you have that he was engaged in criminal activity?

Please read my quote again, I already answered this question check out the bold (I added for ya), and let me say again Jesus christ dude ASSUME much???? like I said before

If I (or any other LEO) made our decissions based on as many assumptions as you do, we wouldn't have our jobs too long...

Anyone here who knows me in real life knows that i refrain from most comments in LE threads, and am probably the staunchest defender or LEs out there. Same goes for the .mil guys, veterans, etc., as I supply many of them with equipment necessary to do their jobs. Which department do you work for again? I'll check the customer accounts tomorrow and let you know if you're using any of my junk.

So you can make our stuff so as that we can infringe and opress, but you aren't part of the "machine" sure....see here is the difference between you and me, I don't think I am doing anything to infringe upon anyones rights, so I do my job in good conscience every day. However you think what I do does (or at least may) infringe upon peoples rights, yet you willingly provide me with the "equipment necessary to do" it...talk about hypocritical...[sad2]

 

[Supermoto]

Jesus christ dude ASSUME much???? like I said before please read my quote again I already answered this question check out the bold (I added for ya)

And you are assuming the MassMark would enter into this conversation. I am asking what you would do if he did not.

Originally Posted by securityboy
If I (or any other LEO) made our decissions based on as many assumptions as you do, we wouldn't have our jobs too long...

Its not an assumption, its a reason suspicion.

 

[MassMark]

And you are assuming the MassMark would enter into this conversation. I am asking what you would do if he did not.

This is what I'd like to know....

 

[Supermoto]

oops

 

[Half Cocked]

if you choose to be the muscle for a machine that is violating the rights of individuals which are protected by the constitution, you cannot, -in good conscience-, claim that privately you actually support those rights, and that somehow you're job and uniform give you absolution during working hours. you will be held accountable one day. by god, man, or your own conscience. or maybe just called out on an internet forum for being a hypocritical troll.

......

 

[weekendracer]

By the time they get there I will either be dead, severely hurt, or would have taken care of the problem.

Besides the odd case of a cop being within seconds of you when you need him, yes, they are irrelevant.

Same goes for the FD. When the fire starts in my house, I am there and they are not. By the time they get there I fully expect to not have anything left at all.

I know my POV is going to piss some off, but I don't care. Show me that I am wrong and I will gladly change my position. But I doubt you will be able to. I didn't come to this conclusion on a whim.

In general, probably most of the time, you are correct. The only police response that could prevent most crimes in progress would be totalitarian aka Nazi Germany. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your belief, our judicial system is such that there is little a LEO can do until a law is actually broken.

Saying 'most' of anything will rile anyone in that group. Even with the colorful discussions I sometime provoke, I don't sit around and think "Wow, everone/most people on NES are a bunch of anti-guvmint/anti-LEO knuckleheads". The ability to debate and discuss is what makes this country great.

There is a reason we're not called 'Crime Prevention Officers', but LEO's.

 

[kevin9]

Cute!

I knew what you meant. The joke was just too good to pass up.

...To the critics, you need to walk a mile in a LEO's shoes to understand the reality of the job and what can be done.

True, and vice-versa. Too many people in positions of authority, whether they be LEOs, politicians or bureaucrats, get so used to receiving special service as a result their positions that they lose sight of what it is like to be a "common person" in receipt of their standard level of service.

 

[kevin9]

deleted

 

[Martlet]

To the critics, you need to walk a mile in a LEO's shoes to understand the reality of the job and what can be done..

No they don't. That's the beauty of being a private citizen when you're discussing public service jobs. The "critics" helped write the damn job description.

 

[goofycj7]

My house was burglarized 7 days after we bought it. They were in the house until we drove up the driveway and then they bailed into the woods behind the house. I had to put up a fuss to get a detective to come out and take prints.

Five years later, I joined the PD as a Reserve PO and had to respond to calls/auto accidents . . . did a lot of report writing.

A gun club I belonged to had out-buildings broken into on a regular basis. Houses in that area were also burglarized. Police knew who did this but couldn't prove it, not enough evidence to prosecute.
.

Wow, you really have no clue what the job is then do you...I can't think of a much more "pro american way of life" job than law enforcement. Oh sure the word "enforcement" is scary...but through that "enforcement" we preserve the Amercian Way of life. You and I may not like all the individual laws passed, but they are passed by those who represent us, who "we" have elected to that possition (and can "un-elect")...Looking back I can not think of a single person's rights I have wrongfully* limited. Further if you don't like the laws change them, we can do that here in America...

On the subject of laws why don't you give me the cite where open carry is illegal in MA???Since you know every LEO would stop you for it, I'd like to know what it is I am stopping you for...

*sure i suppose I limit a persons rights by arresting them, but if some DB wants to beat the $hit out of his girlfriend, etc, etc I may wish there was more I can do, but unfortunately even that DB has rights and all I can do is arrest him and let the courts decide from there...

Unfortunately the courts protect those that are criminals and deny it and convict those of us who have done no wrong but admit it, such as open carry. Some police make criminals of those who try to obey the law and most police have to let the real criminals walk free. And here we seem to have LEO's and the people trying to obey laws arguing?

The criminals are going to hate LEO's for going after them for breaking the law.Those of us who obey the law are going to distrust LEO's because we are trying to obey the confusing mess of laws LEO's are trying to enforce but we get made out for criminals. And LEO's seem to distrust everyone because of the limits they have and they think everyone is lying to them. Unfortunately the system we have rewards liars and punishes everyone who tells the truth.