Interesting Admission from a Police Officer on "Today"

[jasons]

By the time they get there I will either be dead, severely hurt, or would have taken care of the problem.

Besides the odd case of a cop being within seconds of you when you need him, yes, they are irrelevant.

Same goes for the FD. When the fire starts in my house, I am there and they are not. By the time they get there I fully expect to not have anything left at all.

I know my POV is going to piss some off, but I don't care. Show me that I am wrong and I will gladly change my position. But I doubt you will be able to. I didn't come to this conclusion on a whim.

Well, I'm bored and have had a beer or three so let's get hypothetical. (This is always fun.)

Let's say, for the sake of ridiculously hypothetical argument, you're at the bank. You're alone and armed with your EDC weapon (I'm assuming a pistol or maybe two and 50 or so rounds at the most?) when 2 well armed bank robbers rush in armed with AKs and start shooting. You're able to find cover and lay down some suppressing fire, but you're out numbered and out gunned. You can probably hold them off for 3 to 5 minutes or so.

Do you:

a.) Continue to do your best to hold them off until the cops show up? (hopefully before you run out.)
or
b.) Go out gunz-a-blazin like a character in a bad Rambo movie?

 

[Half Cocked]

I like how a LEO who wanted to give a "sound bite", makes a statement and it turns into the "Mission Statement" of LEO's everywhere.

No different than if a Fudd hunter was on TV saying that there was no need for assault weapons. Would you then take the position that gun owners everywhere believe that no one should have assault weapons?

Come on man...

 

[Jose]

c) keep my ass low and try to find an emergency exit to didi mao.

The bank's money is not my problem. I'm not going out in a blaze of glory to save the FDIC some cash.

If, however, I am cornered into a fight or my family is in danger I will fight to the death.

I've made my peace with The Lord.

 

[Jose]

I like how a LEO who wanted to give a "sound bite", makes a statement and it turns into the "Mission Statement" of LEO's everywhere.

No different than if a Fudd hunter was on TV saying that there was no need for assault weapons. Would you then take the position that gun owners everywhere believe that no one should have assault weapons?

Come on man...

Agree. I don't see why whatever was said is even a point of discussion. Who cares?

 

[jasons]

c) keep my ass low and try to find an emergency exit to didi mao.

The bank's money is not my problem. I'm not going out in a blaze of glory to save the FDIC some cash.

If, however, I am cornered into a fight or my family is in danger I will fight to the death.

I've made my peace with The Lord.

Doh, I should have mentioned that the bad guys have the exits covered.

 

[jasons]

2 handguns? 50 rds? 3-5 minutes against two guys armed with AKs? Does this include Max Payne "bullet time" slow motion back flips while blazing away guns akimbo?

Yes, naturally.

EDIT: (Actually I just didn't want to insult Jose with anything less formidable.)

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

A significant chunk of the members at YOUR CLUB (you did say you were a member at MVGC, right?) are working LEOs and are very pro-2A. One even went out of his way to personally sponsor me when I first joined. Maybe you should ask the guys who shoot PPC matches there what they do for work and what they think of the 2A....

Sweeping generalizations ("police tell us we don't need guns") are neither accurate nor called for IMHO.

Okay, you do make a good point about MVGC. I haven't spoken to many of the members there (tend to go off hours). I will make an effort to do so. My comment was based off conversations while I was on the job. I know there were two cops when I covered Chelsea that were actually pro-2a, but those were the only ones I met who felt that way.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

2 handguns? 50 rds? 3-5 minutes against two guys armed with AKs? Does this include Max Payne "bullet time" slow motion back flips while blazing away guns akimbo?

Even though it was unrealistic....wasn't that damn pretty to watch?

 

[ManBearPig]

The po-po can't be everywhere at once, and criminals commit crimes where there are no police present. There's the saying, "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away" (or hours away).

I'll share a story. I was in Boston one evening and attended an event that went until 3:00 AM in the morning. When I returned to my car just outside of Chinatown, the driver's side window was smashed, glass was everywhere and my car's compartments were flipped through. My GPS was stolen. I dialed 911 and it took a Boston cop 50 minutes to get to me. I was very polite but I was frustrated at the cop because he behaved like I wasn't worth his time. I removed as much glass as possible and got home at dawn. To make it worse, it was raining that entire weekend.

The scary parts of it was that (a) there was a cop car that patrolled the street when I parked my car (b) it took them almost an hour to reach me (c) I was standing out in the rain waiting for the cops, alone. Any criminal that was active in the vicinity could've robbed me, stole the car, or worse. In my experience, one cannot depend on the police. They are always too late to arrive on scene. This was one of those incidents that pushed me towards getting a LTC.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

It's worth clarifying that not ALL police say this.

Yes, true, but it is also worth noting that most actually believe in the premise, whether they say it or not.

 

[Twigg]

I've always found it odd the police would tell folks to poke keys into an attackers eyes or blow a whistle to prevent an attack yet using a handgun will only enrage your attacker.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

Well, as I've said before, you can have the best, largest, and most well equipped police department in the world....a criminal can still easily take you're life. We have good solid doors and an alarm, but a determined meth head or someone like that can still get through the front door in probably 15, maybe 30 seconds. These things go down in usually go down in seconds, not even a few minutes. So you just have to take care of yourself. If some LEO doesn't believe in carrying, fine, let them get attacked defensely off duty. But they also need to respect our rights to defend the most basic right we have...our lives.

 

[fubar]

Pro police poster question :

I just found a California law that forbids wiggling when dancing. I doubt it is enforced. I would be interested in how many Pro 2a Police ignore the laws regarding firearms possession , transportation , brandishing ...

( Google search 1st hit )

there are 800,000 full time cops in the USA.
334,000,000 citizens & the 30 million illegals in the USA.
Assume a cop works 7 days a week for 8 hours.
That is roughly one cop protecting 1200 people at once.

It doesn't matter if a policeman is pro 2A or not. He's not likely to be anywhere near you if you need him Right Now.
What does matter are the laws we have and the enforcement of them.

And what happens to the citizen when the police get there and the homeowner / victim owns guns.

.

 

[M1911]

I'll share a story. I was in Boston one evening and attended an event that went until 3:00 AM in the morning. When I returned to my car just outside of Chinatown, the driver's side window was smashed, glass was everywhere and my car's compartments were flipped through. My GPS was stolen. I dialed 911 and it took a Boston cop 50 minutes to get to me.

911 is for emergencies. Your situation was not an emergency. Call the non-emergency number instead.

I was very polite but I was frustrated at the cop because he behaved like I wasn't worth his time.

There's really not much he can do about it. They're not going to call out a crime scene unit and detective because of a car break-in.

The scary parts of it was that (a) there was a cop car that patrolled the street when I parked my car (b) it took them almost an hour to reach me (c) I was standing out in the rain waiting for the cops, alone. Any criminal that was active in the vicinity could've robbed me, stole the car, or worse. In my experience, one cannot depend on the police. They are always too late to arrive on scene. This was one of those incidents that pushed me towards getting a LTC.

Your situation was not an emergency. That's why it took 50 minutes for them to get to you. If it had been an emergency, the would have arrived a lot faster.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't get an LTC. I've got one and I carry whenever possible. I'm not saying that police will get there in time to stop a violent crime. They won't. But don't expect the police to come screaming to you code 3 in a busy city because someone broke into you car and is long gone.

 

[Len-2A Training]

As far as car/house breaks, the police arrive to do a report so you can collect from your insurance company.

Real life ain't TV! No PD has the resources to actually investigate such crimes (unless there is a rash of them in a short period of time).

Sorry, but that's reality . . . one that I've been on both sides of.

 

[Sibb]

Yes, not all police officers say this, but many in the NE do. Unfortunately, it's more the media and population that cultivate that attitude. The support that comes from some LE just amplifies the agenda.

Very true, if all you heard about cars is what you saw on the news, you'd might want to ban them too. That is if you were a drone and took everything you heard on the news as fact.

 

[kevin9]

As far as car/house breaks, the police arrive to do a report so you can collect from your insurance company.

Real life ain't TV! No PD has the resources to actually investigate such crimes (unless there is a rash of them in a short period of time).

Sorry, but that's reality . . . one that I've been on both sides of.

Really!?! Is there something you need to tell us Len?

 

[Supermoto]

Pro police poster question :

. I would be interested in how many Pro 2a Police ignore the laws regarding firearms possession , transportation , brandishing ...
.

As would I, talk is cheap. Cops can spout off how Pro-2A they are, but when it comes time to violates someones right, we know where they stand.

Every LEO on this board would stop a person open carrying in MA. That shows me exactly where you stand on the 2A

 

[crazymjb]

As would I, talk is cheap. Cops can spout off how Pro-2A they are, but when it comes time to violates someones right, we know where they stand.

Every LEO on this board would stop a person open carrying in MA. That shows me exactly where you stand on the 2A

Because you are pro-2A doesn't mean you ignore everyone with a gun.

Mike

 

[Supermoto]

But if someone is walking down the street with a gun on their hip, what are you going to do?

 

[securityboy]

Every LEO on this board would stop a person open carrying in MA. That shows me exactly where you stand on the 2A

Really???...Don't tell me what I would do...

 

[Supermoto]

Really???...Don't tell me what I would do...

You can not be pro-rights by the very definition of your job, as you are nothing more than the enforcement of the government's will. Good or Bad, you do the bidding of your Master

Saying you're Pro Rights and then work for the one entity that can only function through the limiting of rights is hypocritical.

 

[securityboy]

You can not be pro-rights by the very definition of your job, as you are nothing more than the enforcement of the government's will. Good or Bad, you do the bidding of your Master

Saying you're Pro Rights and then work for the one entity that can only function through the limiting of rights is hypocritical.

Wow, you really have no clue what the job is then do you...I can't think of a much more "pro american way of life" job than law enforcement. Oh sure the word "enforcement" is scary...but through that "enforcement" we preserve the Amercian Way of life. You and I may not like all the individual laws passed, but they are passed by those who represent us, who "we" have elected to that possition (and can "un-elect")...Looking back I can not think of a single person's rights I have wrongfully* limited. Further if you don't like the laws change them, we can do that here in America...

On the subject of laws why don't you give me the cite where open carry is illegal in MA???Since you know every LEO would stop you for it, I'd like to know what it is I am stopping you for...

I am also somewhat curious what liberty preserving profession you are in???

PS. I've been a guy guy a lot longer than I've been "the po-po"...

*sure i suppose I limit a persons rights by arresting them, but if some DB wants to beat the $hit out of his girlfriend, etc, etc I may wish there was more I can do, but unfortunately even that DB has rights and all I can do is arrest him and let the courts decide from there...

 

[bostonasphalt2]

911 is for emergencies. Your situation was not an emergency. Call the non-emergency number instead.

I woudl argue that being in a part of Boston like that late at night is not a place you want to get stuck, so, in a way, it is an emergency.

There's really not much he can do about it. They're not going to call out a crime scene unit and detective because of a car break-in.

Doesn't excuse the officer from having to be professional while doing HIS JOB.

Your situation was not an emergency. That's why it took 50 minutes for them to get to you. If it had been an emergency, the would have arrived a lot faster.

My first point fits here as well.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't get an LTC. I've got one and I carry whenever possible. I'm not saying that police will get there in time to stop a violent crime. They won't. But don't expect the police to come screaming to you code 3 in a busy city because someone broke into you car and is long gone.

That was not what he was saying. There is a difference between lights flashing hauling ass down the road and being prompt, quick and professional.

*Cop apologists are a special breed here.....

 

[M1911]

I woudl argue that being in a part of Boston like that late at night is not a place you want to get stuck, so, in a way, it is an emergency.

Oh be frickin' serious. Get real. Emergency means you need help right now or someone might die. The fact that you are standing on the side of the street next to club after hours does not rise to that level. Are you about to die because it is dark and scary? No. And if it does get your more scary, you can drive you car with a busted out window and just leave. Grow up.

Doesn't excuse the officer from having to be professional while doing HIS JOB.

What is a Boston cop going to do for busted out window? Take your name, license plate, location, description of stolen items, and file a report. That's it. You want him to canvas the neighborhood? Dust for prints? OK. What violent felony should they not investigate so that they can investigate your car break-in?

When should you call 911?

When there is an emergency, lives are in danger, serious injury, serious medical condition, crime in progress, or any other situation needing immediate attention.

Your car window was broken. Are lives in danger? No.

Serious injury? No.

Serious medical condition? No.

Crime in progress? No.

Situation needing immediate attention? No.

There was no need for him to call 911 and he was tying up a valuable resource by doing so.

That was not what he was saying. There is a difference between lights flashing hauling ass down the road and being prompt, quick and professional.

Look, dispatch time is not the cop's fault. The dispatchers prioritize the calls. The cop on the beat doesn't decide which calls get which priority. And if it is a busy night, guess what? A car break-in doesn't get a response while cops are dealing with people bleeding on the sidewalks. Should they leave a violent felony because your car window got broken? Get over yourself.

Please. Was the cop a jerk? Maybe. Not unusual for Boston PD and not excusable. But the reality is that unless someone is bleeding or there is a crime in progress, you are not at the top of the queue. They'll get there when the can. Where I live in a bedroom suburb, they'll probably get here PDQ because they don't have many real emergencies. In Boston on a hot summer Friday night? Take a number. Would you prefer that Boston real estate taxes be 5 times what they are now, so that they could respond right away to a car break-in, code-3, with multiple units, detectives, and crime scene technicians? That's the reality. Deal with it.

*Cop apologists are a special breed here.....

Cop haters are special breed here. And also people who have no relationship with reality.

 

[Martlet]

On the subject of laws why don't you give me the cite where open carry is illegal in MA???Since you know every LEO would stop you for it, I'd like to know what it is I am stopping you for...

It's not illegal. That's the point. The police don't charge you with "open carry". They charge you with something else, or just decide you're unsuitable.

 

[goofycj7]

I can't think of a much more "pro american way of life" job than law enforcement.

Serving on any branch military service, more of a commitment, no union, less pay, no going home every night to the family. That seems more "pro american way of life" then Law enforcement.

Not saying law enforcement is not "pro american way of life" just trying to put in in perspective.

 

[Supermoto]

Wow, you really have no clue what the job is then do you...I can't think of a much more "pro american way of life" job than law enforcement. Oh sure the word "enforcement" is scary...but through that "enforcement" we preserve the Amercian Way of life. You and I may not like all the individual laws passed, but they are passed by those who represent us, who "we" have elected to that possition (and can "un-elect")...Looking back I can not think of a single person's rights I have wrongfully* limited. Further if you don't like the laws change them, we can do that here in America...

On the subject of laws why don't you give me the cite where open carry is illegal in MA???Since you know every LEO would stop you for it, I'd like to know what it is I am stopping you for...

I am also somewhat curious what liberty preserving profession you are in???

PS. I've been a guy guy a lot longer than I've been "the po-po"...

*sure i suppose I limit a persons rights by arresting them, but if some DB wants to beat the $hit out of his girlfriend, etc, etc I may wish there was more I can do, but unfortunately even that DB has rights and all I can do is arrest him and let the courts decide from there...

Pro America is standing up for the rights that were endowed to you. The only two that can restrict or violate these rights are a criminal and the Government. One will do it quickly, the other slowly over time. LEOs work against one but for the another.

You can't be Pro 2A while enforcing anything that "infringes"
You can't be Pro 4A while pushing the boundaries of "unreasonable"

 

[securityboy]

Pro America is standing up for the rights that were endowed to you. The only two that can restrict or violate these rights are a criminal and the Government. One will do it quickly, the other slowly over time. LEOs work against one but for the another.

You can't be Pro 2A while enforcing anything that "infringes"
You can't be Pro 4A while pushing the boundaries of "unreasonable"

If I (or any other LEO) made our decissions based on as many assumptions as you do, we wouldn't have our jobs too long...

It's not illegal. That's the point. The police don't charge you with "open carry". They charge you with something else, or just decide you're unsuitable.

I really can't disagree with your premise here, if you have put yourself in a situation and broken some law, you will have to deal with the consiquences of that. You being a lawfull gun owner doesn't exempt you from all other laws...

if you choose to be the muscle for a machine...

Wow how nice of you to insult every LEO, serviceman, and veteran in one sentence, because we all work for the same "machine" putting our a$$es on the line, so you get to make statements like that, because as you know its your right to do so...

...you will be held accountable one day. by god, man, or your own conscience...

not too worried about it...

 

[binkleton]

First responders are irrelevant.

By the time they get there, not only has the SHTF, the S ran out and the fan stopped spinning long ago

Gotta say I didn't think first responders were irrelevant when they saved a life of a loved one at an accident site.

Let's not generalize if we're not gonna generalize