Insurance for firearms in MA

MJD

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Hello,

I'm a recent transplant to Massachusetts. I am setting up firearms coverage with insurance and they requested sales receipts for all firearms in order to cover them. Of course I don't have every sales receipt....

The only other acceptable means of identification was an appraisal from a gun shop or "someone affiliated with the firearms industry" listing make/model/serial/replacement value.

I have already obtained the correct licensing for owning firearms in Massachusetts. Can anyone recommend a shop between Springfield and Lee that would do this? Is this par for the course? I did not have to do this in my past states of residency, having only to provide serial number/make/model.

Thanks for the help.
 
Or Eastern Insurance. Remember, the primary requirement for NRA insurance is the ability of the insurer to pay a commission to the NRA.
 
You are dealing with the WRONG insurance company!!!!!

Go to Historic Firearms Insurance | Eastern Insurance Group LLC by Eastern Insurance Group LLC and you won't have to deal with any of that nonsense. No lists, no appraisals (unless a particular gun is worth >$xK) and covers all losses. Cheaper than NRA insurance by ~50% last I looked (a few years ago).
 
Liberty Mutual told me that guns are covered the same as any other piece of property.

Guns are covered the same way as any other personal property on the homeowners policy (subject to deductible, coverage limit, exclusions & policy conditions) except there's a limit for loss by theft on the homeowners policy. So if your house burns down, you have water damage, etc. damage to your firearms will be treated the same as a loss to your other personal property. The standard homeowners policy limits loss by theft of unscheduled firearms to $1,500 or $2,000 depending which version of the commonly used policy forms are being used. Most companies offer and enhancement or preferred coverage endorsement that will increase the limit on loss by theft of unscheduled firearms up to $5,000. Anything beyond that usually requires adding the firearms as scheduled items on your policy and for that, you need to provide receipts or appraisals. It's the same for jewelry, all policies have limits for loss of theft of jewelry and if you want to add coverage beyond those limits or for particular valuable items you need to schedule (list) them on your policy and provide appraisals or receipts. If you have an extensive collection then perhaps a specialty firearms policy might be more applicable as mentioned by Len & Rob. I recently wrote someone with a $17,000 Perazzi shotgun although I needed Underwriter approval for that one (and we were cheaper than the specialty companies on that item). I believe one of my carriers will insure up to $10K in unscheduled firearms with a per item limit however they're not terribly competitive overall these days. It all depends on what/how much you're looking to insure.

OP, feel free to message me if you'd like to discuss further or would like a quote.
 
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You are dealing with the WRONG insurance company!!!!!

Go to Historic Firearms Insurance | Eastern Insurance Group LLC by Eastern Insurance Group LLC and you won't have to deal with any of that nonsense. No lists, no appraisals (unless a particular gun is worth >$xK) and covers all losses. Cheaper than NRA insurance by ~50% last I looked (a few years ago).

Being an instructor and firearms professional, I'd caution against using language like "covers all losses". No policy covers all losses; all policies have limits, deductibles and exclusions which apply. You could be setting yourself up for an E&O, not to mention providing insurance advice without a license.
 
Hello,

I'm a recent transplant to Massachusetts. ................................

Or Eastern Insurance. Remember, the primary requirement for NRA insurance is the ability of the insurer to pay a commission to the NRA.

You are dealing with the WRONG insurance company!!!!!

Go to Historic Firearms Insurance | Eastern Insurance Group LLC by Eastern Insurance Group LLC and you won't have to deal with any of that nonsense. No lists, no appraisals (unless a particular gun is worth >$xK) and covers all losses. Cheaper than NRA insurance by ~50% last I looked (a few years ago).

Another vote for Eastern Insurance. Like Len-2a said, no schedule and very reasonable rates.
 
Another vote for Eastern Insurance Group and the Historic Firearms Insurance program.

Blanket coverage amounts, covers "in transit", and I was only required to schedule items with a single value over 10K
 
I agree that you’re dealing with the wrong insurance company. My firearms were set up on a rider, because my insurer lumps art, jewely, firearms, and other historical items on one section of the policy for a very low cap in the event of loss. I deliberately made sure the guns and jewelry were separately stated, One car too.

I’m happy to have our jewelry and guns separately stated. I pay a bit more, but I know enough insurance attorneys, internal and external, to feel that I would get appropriate guidance if ish hit the proverbial fan.
 
Another vote for Eastern Insurance Group and the Historic Firearms Insurance program.

Blanket coverage amounts, covers "in transit", and I was only required to schedule items with a single value over 10K

I agree that you’re dealing with the wrong insurance company. My firearms were set up on a rider, because my insurer lumps art, jewely, firearms, and other historical items on one section of the policy for a very low cap in the event of loss. I deliberately made sure the guns and jewelry were separately stated, One car too.

I’m happy to have our jewelry and guns separately stated. I pay a bit more, but I know enough insurance attorneys, internal and external, to feel that I would get appropriate guidance if ish hit the proverbial fan.

It comes down to what nature the collection is and what you're protecting it against. If you have $10k-$20K in multiple assorted modern guns, none of them exceeding a grand or two in value, then the homeowners policy ought to be fine (scheduling as needed). If you're scheduling multiple firearms over $10K, if you have guns w/ an antique or collectible value or have a collection in the high five or into six figures, then perhaps a specialty insurance policy is in order. Also, what are you protecting against? If theft is the primary concern and you have a substantial value collection, then get a specialty insurance policy. If you think your collection is relatively safe from theft and are more worried about the house burning down, the homeowners policy is probably fine. Given what I have, where my firearms are stored and the security I have at the locations I keep my firearms, my homeowners policy is more than adequate for my needs. I also have clients that have specialty policies for the larger collections/collectibles as well they should.
 
It comes down to what nature the collection is and what you're protecting it against. If you have $10k-$20K in multiple assorted modern guns, none of them exceeding a grand or two in value, then the homeowners policy ought to be fine (scheduling as needed). If you're scheduling multiple firearms over $10K, if you have guns w/ an antique or collectible value or have a collection in the high five or into six figures, then perhaps a specialty insurance policy is in order. Also, what are you protecting against? If theft is the primary concern and you have a substantial value collection, then get a specialty insurance policy. If you think your collection is relatively safe from theft and are more worried about the house burning down, the homeowners policy is probably fine. Given what I have, where my firearms are stored and the security I have at the locations I keep my firearms, my homeowners policy is more than adequate for my needs. I also have clients that have specialty policies for the larger collections/collectibles as well they should.
Having (in the past) investigated HO rider, Collectibles, NRA and Historical Firearms, I have to disagree with you.

- HO was the most expensive and I was also warned by a company agent that they may cancel your HO if you have what they consider a nuisance (small) claim. They also tend to want an inventory.

- Collectibles was fine, but they expect you to NOT carry or bring any to the range more than "a few times/year" (their words when I asked). Much cheaper than HO rider.

- NRA was much better for a small collection, but more expensive per K than Historical Firearms.

- Historical covers in shipment, stolen off the bench at a club, stolen from your car, as well as the standard losses you might suffer. No list or BS unless a very high value item ($10K threshold for listing it reported above). If you have a moderate to expensive collection this is the best wrt cost.

Over the years I've had all of the above except HO rider.
 
Everyone, OP here. Thank you very much for the plethora of information to my question.

To clarify, I was speaking about a rider to my homeowner's policy that covers loss due to theft, as the value exceeds the amount provided with the standard homeowner's policy.

This isn't a $20K collection, but it ain't a bunch of Hi-Points either (no disrespect, the 995 PCC was a blast).

I will investigate the options you've all presented. Thanks very much!
 
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Liberty Mutual told me that guns are covered the same as any other piece of property.

They told me the same thing, however they also told me the coverage had a hard cap. I don’t recall the amount but it wasn’t enough. Maybe they said 25k??

My homeowner's policy (USAA) says without a specific rider, guns are covered up to something like $2,500. Guns are covered like jewelry: some small amount is covered, anything more than that needs to be documented and they'll charge you for it.
 
My homeowner's policy (USAA) says without a specific rider, guns are covered up to something like $2,500. Guns are covered like jewelry: some small amount is covered, anything more than that needs to be documented and they'll charge you for it.

$2,500 sounded very low to me but I just looked it up, that’s the number alright. Before I went with eastern I was going to do it with liberty. It was obvious by the price they gave me they would rather pass.
 
Being an instructor and firearms professional, I'd caution against using language like "covers all losses". No policy covers all losses; all policies have limits, deductibles and exclusions which apply. You could be setting yourself up for an E&O, not to mention providing insurance advice without a license.

Really? That's a thing?
 
Having (in the past) investigated HO rider, Collectibles, NRA and Historical Firearms, I have to disagree with you.

- HO was the most expensive and I was also warned by a company agent that they may cancel your HO if you have what they consider a nuisance (small) claim. They also tend to want an inventory.

- Collectibles was fine, but they expect you to NOT carry or bring any to the range more than "a few times/year" (their words when I asked). Much cheaper than HO rider.

- NRA was much better for a small collection, but more expensive per K than Historical Firearms.

- Historical covers in shipment, stolen off the bench at a club, stolen from your car, as well as the standard losses you might suffer. No list or BS unless a very high value item ($10K threshold for listing it reported above). If you have a moderate to expensive collection this is the best wrt cost.

Over the years I've had all of the above except HO rider.

- No insurance carrier can cancel you for a small “nuisance” claim, however that is defined. They all can and do nonrenew due to adverse claims history. Not all claims are weighted the same; a claim that is deemed preventable, repetitive or a maintenance issue will count against your more than say a lightning strike or major windstorm loss. Companies will look at claims history and they look at the number of incidents and severity and that’s where small huisance claims will bite you in the ass if you have more than a couple/few claims. Repetitive claims like more than one pipe freeze, ice dam or dog bite claim in a couple of years will probably get you nonrenewed because they figure you haven’t taken the proper preventive measures. Sometimes when the adjuster comes out for a claim and sees the property is a mess it might lead to a nonrenewal, have a few of those stories.

- There are no restrictions on the homeowners policy as to where you can bring your collectibles, whoever told you that was full of it. If I remember correctly you were either with Liberty or Amica a while back, they generally use call center staff who aren’t the most experienced and like with every subject/profession, there are myths and falsehoods that get propagated.

- The homeowner’s policy covers theft (to the limit of your coverage) wherever it’s stolen from.

That being said, if you have an expensive, extensive collection the specialty companies are the way to go. If you have a few grand in Glocks, 686’s, Smith E series 1911, a Ruger PC9, M&P15s, run of the mill stuff, the homeowners policy is fine. As previously stated, there is a limit for loss by theft of firearms so some scheduling might be needed. Insurance companies don’t put your scheduled belongings on a .gov database. If yiur house burns down and you lost $25k in run of the mill firearms, the homeowners policy will cover it.

Also, not to pick nits but there’s no such thing as a rider on a homeowners policy, it’s called an endorsement. A rider applies to Life, Health & Disability policies. It’s the insurance equivalent of calling a mag a clip.

Len, I trust your expertise in firearms and firearms laws. You have schooled me more than once and I deserved it. Clearly you have some antipathy towards insurance and I get that, a lot of people do, but what you’re putting out there re insurance is the equivalent of people coming on here and reciting what a cop friend or gun store employee told them about gun laws.
 
Really? That's a thing?

It’s a thing. If a car dealer discusses auto insurance coverages and steers you toward a particular policy/coverage, they’ll get their peepee slapped. I have had car dealers tell buyers who own homes it’s ok to buy minimum liability limits as long as you get “full coverage” for the car. Aside from the fact that there’s no such thing as “full coverage”, car dealers I have zero reason to tell people which liability limits to carry. If a realtor tells you something is covered under the homeowners policy and it’s not, same thing if there’s a loss that’s not covered because you relied on the realtors advice.

I’d suggest if a firearms professional tells you a firearms policy “covers everything” and it ends up not being covered, the DOI might take issue with that if the person makes an issue out if it. You might end up w an E&O on yiur hands too. If it’s a large loss that isn’t covered, believe me they’ll throw anyone they can under the bus to get compensated. That’s why so often you’ll see the IANAL disclaimer on here,
 
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They told me the same thing, however they also told me the coverage had a hard cap. I don’t recall the amount but it wasn’t enough. Maybe they said 25k??

$2,500 sounded very low to me but I just looked it up, that’s the number alright. Before I went with eastern I was going to do it with liberty. It was obvious by the price they gave me they would rather pass.

My homeowner's policy (USAA) says without a specific rider, guns are covered up to something like $2,500. Guns are covered like jewelry: some small amount is covered, anything more than that needs to be documented and they'll charge you for it.

These limits are for loss by theft only. If your house burns down your gun’s are treated like any other personal property in the house i.e. there’s no sub limit for firearms. Like the rest of your personal property you may have to show some evidence that you owned the stuff or what it was worth, but the limits they’re talking about refer specifically to loss by theft of firearms. That’s why I don’t get the super duper fire rated safes, I want to keep people from getting my stuff but if the house burns down I’m not gonna worry too much about it.
 
It’s a thing. If a car dealer discusses auto insurance coverages and steers you toward a particular policy/coverage, they’ll get their peepee slapped. I have had car dealers tell buyers who own homes it’s ok to buy minimum liability limits as long as you get “full coverage” for the car. Aside from the fact that there’s no such thing as “full coverage”, car dealers I have zero reason to tell people which liability limits to carry. If a realtor tells you something is covered under the homeowners policy and it’s not, same thing if there’s a loss that’s not covered because you relied on the realtors advice.

I’d suggest if a firearms professional tells you a firearms policy “covers everything” and it ends up not being covered, the DOI might take issue with that if the person makes an issue out if it. You might end up w an E&O on yiur hands too. If it’s a large loss that isn’t covered, believe me they’ll throw anyone they can under the bus to get compensated. That’s why so often you’ll see the IANAL disclaimer on here,

I'm sure you're technically correct, but people say "IANAL" because people actually get prosecuted for practicing law without a license. Has anyone ever been prosecuted for "providing insurance advice without a license?"
 
I'm sure you're technically correct, but people say "IANAL" because people actually get prosecuted for practicing law without a license. Has anyone ever been prosecuted for "providing insurance advice without a license?"

Yes.
 
I was with Amica for >30 yrs. When I was a computer consultant and beta testing a lot of software for Microsoft, I had as many as 8 computers in my home office, so I purchased an "endorsement" to boost the value of computer equipment to IIRC $25K. One morning I woke up, went into my office and the computer would not power on (not a power supply issue) . . . I went out and bought a replacement. Amica told me that I could have filed a claim ($5-600), BUT they would look poorly upon me come renewal. When I said "cancel" in the prior post, I really meant non-renewal, so I mis-spoke, sorry but insurance isn't my hobby/business. When Amica refused me umbrella coverage since I was an appointed (volunteer) town official, the agent (they are all company employees) let slip that they really didn't like to cover people who owned guns. It was a statement not a question, so I didn't respond to that but was always leery of them due to that comment. Viking Kitten (a friend who is no longer on NES) bought a house on the North Shore and just prior to closing was told by Amica that they refused her HO policy due to her owning guns. That is a fact that she shared on NES a number of years ago.

"Collectibles" was not a type of "endorsement" but the name of a company who also offers gun coverage but their policy is written to just about restrict the coverage for museum type collections (only allowed to take it to the range a "few times" - their words to me - each year), OK to bring to gun shows/exhibits but not to carry, etc. Collectibles Insurance Agency, Collectibles Insurance Services (CIS) | Collect Insure
 
Buckfarack,
As for my animus about insurance companies, you are correct. I was once the victim of a fraudulent auto accident claim (guy hit me, DL had a vacant lot in Roxbury for his address, never filed an accident report, threatened a lawsuit -before no-fault by a few months using a known to insurance company doctor and lawyer who specialized in filing fraudulent claims - told to me by my company's agent). Some time later I learned that they paid off the guy for the fraudulent BI claim and I went ballistic - reported them to the AG's auto fraud department and they did investigate it back then. I left that company after I was hit by an elderly (~90 yo) driver who took a left across a main street right into the same fender that had just been repaired months earlier from the above fraud deal. He was insured by the same company as I was and they never paid me a dime to repair the new damage. This was 1970-71 time-frame.

In 1979, a gas line burst while my Wife was driving and the car we had at that time was a total loss. Just 3 months earlier I sat in my "independent" agent's office overlooking the car and discussed keeping relatively full coverage on it even though it was 6 yrs old. He estimated the car value at $1500. The car dealer where I had bought the car new and had it serviced also estimated value at $1500 at time of loss. Travelers Insurance took possession of the car and sold it prior to settling with me . . . I still have the title to that car to this day (unless I threw it out a few years ago). They paid me $500 and my agent refused to do anything. The AG's auto insurance dept told me that if I filed suit I might get more money but it would likely take 3-4 yrs. I dumped Travelers mid-policy year, short-rating myself on HO and cars and went with Amica.

Amica was great on the few claims we had (Hurricane Bob, tree fell on our house). But my policy ran out on one car at the same time reg expired so I was forever having to visit Amica's office to get a stamp. No big deal when they were in Wellesley as I had clients up that way and a trip to Four Seasons was a side-benefit. Then they moved that office to Westboro and later to Raynham which became a hassle. Since both the Registrar of MV and myself were both Suffolk University grads, the online alumni records gave me her personal Email and I wrote her (Rachael as I recall) asking if there was some way to avoid getting a stamp for those of us on automatic renewal and payment programs. She replied that I should have the insurance company expire my auto policy early and re-write it so that it fell months away from my registration renewal and thus avoid the stamp issue. I paid a visit to Raynham and gave an agent the Email from the Registrar of MV and requested that they do this. The agent said that they would take care of it. It didn't happen, I called them a few more times over a couple more years and got promises and no action. So I went "shopping" and landed with MetLife in 2015 (when they offered a discount to NRA members, so guns weren't an issue to them). When Amica got notice of my policy cancellations, I got a call asking if I'd reconsider so I told the agent about the poor customer service issue, she looks on the computer and acknowledges that they screwed up and offers to fix that problem "now" . . . sorry too late and MetLife saved me $300 over Amica as well.

Even with MetLife, for 3 years I've been trying to get them to correct my policies. They have our Mass house listed with an 18 yr old roof (it was replaced in Nov. 2015 and I sent them a copy of the invoice), they show me with a mortgage - fully paid off a year prior to going with MetLife and a bunch of other small stuff. Even our newly purchased NH house policy shows a gas heating system (it is oil), age of roof is wrong, claims a 350 sq ft porch (it is 168 sq ft per assessors drawing), claims 200A service (only 100A service), shows central A/C (none present) and other stuff. On the Mass house I sent all this stuff to my (company employee) agent 2 yrs ago and nothing was changed. I drafted a letter to their corporate customer service a week ago just before I got side-lined with contractor issues for the NH house. Now that I'm back to my office, I'll review the letter and send it off to their HQ this week.

So yes, I've had some issues and don't particularly like insurance companies. On the other hand I had nothing but helpful service when I had questions dealing with Eastern Insurance's Historic Firearms policy. Dealing with Jack Richardson (RIP) was a real pleasure and I did get to meet him in person one time when he rented a table at the Marlboro gun show. Jack was a competitive shooter and developed the program we are discussing as he saw a need for such an offering. Hopefully his replacements will also be helpful when it comes time to renew.
 
These limits are for loss by theft only.
Are you sure it is not loss by theft or mysterious disappearance?

As to Amica - smooth sailing once I explained that a West Highland White Terrier is not another name for Pit Bull.

West-Highland-White-Terrier-on-White-03.jpg
 
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