InRange Battle Rifle Trials

Whiskeywon

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Aside from the top 3, I had the rest pegged exactly. While the top 3 could have gone any which way depending on the group you have it was pretty clear where the rest were going to go. Between the bullpup that had straight magazine and short throw for the charging handle being in the middle and the M1A while also being rock and lock like the rest of the bottom has a pretty retard proof way of getting the magazine in. Since the stock itself acts as one big magazine well and all you can fumble from there is locking it correctly. Which is steps above the G3 and FAL.
 

jpk

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The robinson is a cool rifle

Been around for a bit, too bad it hasnt become more widely adopted.....price is certainly a factor
 

Picton

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The professionalization of the shooting “community” has, I think, resulted in a lot of Internet shooters who know all about the “AR platform” and squat about anything else.

Of course they’ll prefer mag wells they’re familiar with. The real lesson is that practice makes perfect. Plenty of guys went from learning on an M14 to fighting in Vietnam with an M16 to becoming a soldier of fortune in Rhodesia with an FAL and were somehow magically able to make all three rifles function well.

Give those internet guys enough ergonomic familiarity with non-AR rifles and the result might be far different. They do acknowledge that, however.
 
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The professionalization of the shooting “community” has, I think, resulted in a lot of Internet shooters who know all about the “AR platform” and squat about anything else.

Of course they’ll prefer mag wells they’re familiar with. The real lesson is that practice makes perfect. Plenty of guys went from learning on an M14 to fighting in Vietnam with an M16 to becoming a soldier of fortune in Rhodesia with an FAL and were somehow magically able to make all three rifles function well.

Give those internet guys enough ergonomic familiarity with non-AR rifles and the result might be far different. They do acknowledge that, however.

But did any of those guys have tacticool beards? Did they get operator patches on amazon ?
 

mac1911

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The professionalization of the shooting “community” has, I think, resulted in a lot of Internet shooters who know all about the “AR platform” and squat about anything else.

Of course they’ll prefer mag wells they’re familiar with. The real lesson is that practice makes perfect. Plenty of guys went from learning on an M14 to fighting in Vietnam with an M16 to becoming a soldier of fortune in Rhodesia with an FAL and were somehow magically able to make all three rifles function well.

Give those internet guys enough ergonomic familiarity with non-AR rifles and the result might be far different. They do acknowledge that, however.
Thats true as you tend to get used to using what .Gov tells you to use.
 

C. Stockwell

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The professionalization of the shooting “community” has, I think, resulted in a lot of Internet shooters who know all about the “AR platform” and squat about anything else.

Of course they’ll prefer mag wells they’re familiar with. The real lesson is that practice makes perfect. Plenty of guys went from learning on an M14 to fighting in Vietnam with an M16 to becoming a soldier of fortune in Rhodesia with an FAL and were somehow magically able to make all three rifles function well.

Give those internet guys enough ergonomic familiarity with non-AR rifles and the result might be far different. They do acknowledge that, however.
The number of guys who actually did that, going from M14 --> M16 --> FAL, is tiny. There were 300 +/- members of the "Crippled Eagles," the Americans who fought for Rhodesia. Half of the KIA Crippled Eagles were some sort of US veteran prior to service in Rhodesia. Out of those, it appears that most of the US vets in Rhodesia did a tour or two before going to Rhodesia. Meaning they weren't around for decades in the US military, experiencing the switchover from M14 (or Garand) to M16. Probably John Coey did as he was in ROTC prior to joining up with Rhodesia, but he was a combat medic over there.

The Crippled Eagles - Wikipedia

Rock-and-lock mags are just slower than straight-in mags. In sport shooting where time is part of the score, like 3-gun and 2-gun, the AK guy (the most common rock-and-lock gun on the market) either is a newb or never really wins on a regular basis. Put it this way, Russell Phagan is not out there with an Arsenal AK every weekend.

SinistralRifleman

The raison d'etre for the rock-and-lock mag-well is that its in theory more reliable and less sensitive to poor QC. Probably easier to tool up for too. You just need a lug on the mag and a catch inside the well. This does not translate on the clock -- presumably competition shooters, at least the winners, aren't using cheap, sub-standard crap mags given the proliferation of the PMAG and USGI mags.
 

Picton

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All true.

Which is why it's a good thing none of these weapons were designed for "speed competitions." Most of them do pretty well when fighting battles, at least. The best AK reloaders in the world aren't playing on a range in Illinois, they're capping government troops in Yemen or someplace.
 

M1911

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I agree that rock and lock is slower than straight in. It is also more error prone. Can you learn how to use rock and lock mags well? Of course, bit it will take more repetitions than straight in. Is that important in selecting a rifle? As Paul Harrell says “you be the judge...”
 

Sweeney

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The M14 isn't strictly rock and lock as the forward catch is spring loaded. The magazine can be inserted straight but the main benefit is that it makes the rock and lock more forgiving.

There was clearly a lot of fumbling with magazines and some with charging due to the shooters being unfamiliar with the rifles.

I look forward to the next installment.
 
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You know to be honest, I got InRange confused with the girl with the short shorts and that tactical guy
 

Mountain

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Speaking from competition experience of actually using both the AR and M1A/M14 in the same competition format: Yes, changing mags is slightly slower with the M14 but with practice the difference is minimal. The more important aspects such as staying in or quickly regaining position and maintaining sight picture are what make a bigger difference. Despite the heavier recoil, I tend to score better with the M14.

In any case, those of us who are competing are simply playing games and select the best tools to 'play'.
 

M1911

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Speaking from competition experience of actually using both the AR and M1A/M14 in the same competition format: Yes, changing mags is slightly slower with the M14 but with practice the difference is minimal. The more important aspects such as staying in or quickly regaining position and maintaining sight picture are what make a bigger difference. Despite the heavier recoil, I tend to score better with the M14.

In any case, those of us who are competing are simply playing games and select the best tools to 'play'.
In Service Rifle, most everyone has gone to the AR. It has noticeably less recoil in the “rapid fire” strings.

In general, I like what these guys at InRange are doing. Can you argue about how important their tests are? Sure. But at least these folks are trying to do side-by-side tests with objective measures. I’m not aware of anyone else doing that.
 

daekken

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All true.

Which is why it's a good thing none of these weapons were designed for "speed competitions." Most of them do pretty well when fighting battles, at least. The best AK reloaders in the world aren't playing on a range in Illinois, they're capping government troops in Yemen or someplace.
Or doing wetwork in the Caucasus.
 

Mountain

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In Service Rifle, most everyone has gone to the AR. It has noticeably less recoil in the “rapid fire” strings.

In general, I like what these guys at InRange are doing. Can you argue about how important their tests are? Sure. But at least these folks are trying to do side-by-side tests with objective measures. I’m not aware of anyone else doing that.
Agreed- side by side test is a good way to do it and it's impossible to make a perfect test. My comment is more oriented to those who would put a lot of stock in 3-gun / 2-gun results.

Still a game and of course not real world, but I think CMP as-issued competition is a better comparison for the various platforms. A 13 lb AR in Service Rifle with a high end barrel is going to be very difficult to beat, but good gawd it's a heavy beast and nothing you want to carry around.
 
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