If you're running an aftermarket glock trigger you best check it closely

[BostonBullit]

I thought I tested the safety functions of my Glock 22 after installing a new Zev trigger kit; I pulled on the trigger without touching the tab and verified that it stopped without releasing the striker. when I got to the chrono station at Area 7 the trigger was tested by holding the grip between both palms, putting one finger on each side of the trigger, and pulling back with increasing pressure. to my surprise (horror) the striker was loosed and I was nearly DQ'd. Luckily I had the old trigger group in my range bag and was able to swap everything at the safe table before my squad left the chrono stage.

So if you run an aftermarket (or modified) trigger in your Glock and are planning on hitting a large match I recommend you test your rig in the way I described before getting there

 

[Supermoto]

Lots of glock shooters were at the safe table trying to fix their guns during A7

 

[TY43215]

Lots of glock shooters were at the safe table trying to fix their guns during A7

I think it was like 18 including a Team Glock shooter. Most were from "Drop in" triggers. Not one Sig or 1911/2011 or M&P failed. Only Glocks.

 

[whatluck]

Obligatory

 

[Golddiggie]

I think it was like 18 including a Team Glock shooter. Most were from "Drop in" triggers. Not one Sig or 1911/2011 or M&P failed. Only Glocks.

Classic...

Love 0 safety issues with the other pistols. Just another reason I'll continue to keep clear of glocks...

 

[Supermoto]

Obligatory

That happened too

Every time a Glock KBs, an angel gets its wings

 

[Glockster30]

Classic...

Love 0 safety issues with the other pistols. Just another reason I'll continue to keep clear of glocks...

These are drop in competition triggers being discussed. If you are suggesting that you keep clear of a Glock for self-defense too, I've been carrying various CCW Glocks/calibers for 20 years with absolutely zero FTF or FTE.

 

[Golddiggie]

These are drop in competition triggers being discussed. If you are suggesting that you keep clear of a Glock for self-defense too, I've been carrying various CCW Glocks/calibers for 20 years with absolutely zero FTF or FTE.

IMO, any 'competition' grade parts should be MORE reliable than the original parts. If this is not the case, then whatever make those parts were needs to be told so they can be avoided.

I've used my 1911 wide-body pistol in both competition (ISPC) and to carry. Zero safety issues in 20+ years too.

BTW, this just another reason for me to keep clear of glocks. I have plenty of other reasons to not want one.

 

[bill o]

Classic...

Love 0 safety issues with the other pistols. Just another reason I'll continue to keep clear of glocks...

So you're keeping clear of Glocks because Glockworx makes an aftermarket competition trigger that can fail an arguably overzealous interpretation of USPSA production division rules. Makes sense.

 

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

I thought I tested the safety functions of my Glock 22 after installing a new Zev trigger kit; I pulled on the trigger without touching the tab and verified that it stopped without releasing the striker. when I got to the chrono station at Area 7 the trigger was tested by holding the grip between both palms, putting one finger on each side of the trigger, and pulling back with increasing pressure. to my surprise (horror) the striker was loosed and I was nearly DQ'd. Luckily I had the old trigger group in my range bag and was able to swap everything at the safe table before my squad left the chrono stage.

So if you run an aftermarket (or modified) trigger in your Glock and are planning on hitting a large match I recommend you test your rig in the way I described before getting there

Glocks work fine until you try to improve them. There are many things you can do to improve the trigger in a Glock, such as changing springs and the connector. However, trying to change the pre-travel and over-travel is the easiest way to cause real trouble. I had issues myself with a Zev trigger, and first adjusted then simply replaced it. Problem fixed.

 

[Glockster30]

IMO, any 'competition' grade parts should be MORE reliable than the original parts. If this is not the case, then whatever make those parts were needs to be told so they can be avoided.

I've used my 1911 wide-body pistol in both competition (ISPC) and to carry. Zero safety issues in 20+ years too.

BTW, this just another reason for me to keep clear of glocks. I have plenty of other reasons to not want one.

I know that Glocks are not for everyone, but I also have two 1911 with trigger jobs, a Colt Gold Cup (70 series), and a PARA P-14 (wide-body), from when PARA made excellent firearms. However, with the light trigger pulls, I would never carry either one for CCW!

 

[TY43215]

So you're keeping clear of Glocks because Glockworx makes an aftermarket competition trigger that can fail an arguably overzealous interpretation of USPSA production division rules. Makes sense.

You seem awful critical of the way we did things. Maybe you can step up next year and do it right. As the Head RO on the Chrono stage with 14yrs experience in this sport and over 30yrs experience in competition and firearms, I could learn a lot from you I guess. Since you have been a member for a whole 3yrs

 

[bill o]

You seem awful critical of the way we did things. Maybe you can step up next year and do it right. As the Head RO on the Chrono stage with 14yrs experience in this sport and over 30yrs experience in competition and firearms, I could learn a lot from you I guess. Since you have been a member for a whole 3yrs

I wasn't criticizing you. I have a difference of opinion in the way NROI instructs chrono staff to test the Glock trigger safety.

In terms of your sarcasm and personal comments, I'm a certified RO and production Glock shooter so I think I'm entitled to have an opinion on this rules matter, as is every other USPSA member.

 

[Lugnut]

Mike- stay out of this thread! You got to see your Glock Kaboom for the weekend... be happy!

 

[Mooney]

Hmmm...increasing pressure? There was far less than 2 lbs pressure being applied to each. I have big meathooks, but was doublechecked in how the triggers were being checked- especially since my paws are big, to make sure I was not contacting the "safety".

18 or so failed, many more, including Director NROI's, passed easily. Mr. Amidon himself came over to recheck the first few from all the crying. It was done correctly, as I don't want to break anyone's stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry- *AFTER* the first few. Typing on phone and couldn't see verbiage.

 

[Gammon]

Thanks for the warning. I had no idea that trigger safeties were checked that thoroughly at major matches. Both of my Glocks with custom triggers passed my "home version" of the test. I can understand how some shooters got caught with their pants down as I never checked either of my Glocks. Never knew that the trigger safety would be tested.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

Glocks work fine until you try to improve them.

Pretty much sums it up right there...

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Thanks for the warning. I had no idea that trigger safeties were checked that thoroughly at major matches. Both of my Glocks with custom triggers passed my "home version" of the test. I can understand how some shooters got caught with their pants down as I never checked either of my Glocks. Never knew that the trigger safety would be tested.

Sometimes a major match chrono station will be consist of little more than running rounds over the chrono and maybe weighing a bullet. Competitors who get used to this can be surprised when they run into a skilled and equipped chrono team.

Area 7 had the good fortune to have a chrono staff that had the right equipment (chrono, bullet scale, production box, production gun/weight list, gun scale, 1 Kg calibration weight traceable to the national bureau of standards, etc.) and a detailed knowledge of the rules so they knew to check everything. There is a chance for everyone doing a job at a major match to do it just a bit better, and Mooney and Round Gun stepped up to the plate.

 

[Lugnut]

Pretty much sums it up right there...

Really? Interesting. I didn't know that.

 

[Mooney]

Thanks Rob, that praise means a lot to us, particularly coming from you.

 

[GeeTen]

Huh, you learn something new everyday!

After firing my P226 X-Five Tactical at Chrono, Mooney handed the pistol back to me and said, "Your safety works." I thought (to myself) "Of course it does." I never realized my safety was checked, too. Good thing I didn't make some wise-@ss comment like I usually do, eh?

TTFN,
"Point Blank" Frank

 

[Mooney]

Well, Frank we already knew YOU had nothing to hide with your morning wardrobe choice...

I would refer people to not the production division rules, but to page 72, appendix C2, item 47a of the 2010 rulebook. Basically tells folks their primary (external) safety has to work.

We had great preparation hy RGS for this match. I basically did little, equipment-wise. I had backup stuff only.
We also had great help from Marsha C. And Dori S. (I don't like posting last names on the 'net). Aside from a few quickly remedied clerical issues, they helped us get all the squads through without backups or delays.

 

[kingfisher]

after installing a new Zev trigger kit; I pulled on the trigger without touching the tab and verified that it stopped without releasing the striker.

when I got to the chrono station at Area 7 the trigger was tested by holding the grip between both palms, putting one finger on each side of the trigger, and pulling back with increasing pressure. to my surprise (horror) the striker was loosed

Can anybody explain why the test procedure used in the second bolded section resulted in a different outcome than that in the first paragraph?

What was happening "mechanically" in each instance that made the trigger act differently?

 

[Supermoto]

Every major match I go to, the first thing I do in the morning is have my mags checked by the Chrono staff. JJ had his equipment location check before the match also. I don't think I have seen anyone else do that. I bet there were a bunch of first time Open shooters that wished they had

 

[bill o]

Can anybody explain why the test procedure used in the second bolded section resulted in a different outcome than that in the first paragraph?

What was happening "mechanically" in each instance that made the trigger act differently?

The safety tab or frame slot can become rounded over and worn down from dryfire. But most likely the aftermarket trigger was just out of spec from the factory trigger and only had a tiny bit of engagement with the frame. Maybe it wasn't resetting to the full "safe" position for some reason? My stock Glock passed this test easily, at chrono and when I tried to reproduce it at home.

- - - Updated - - -

Every major match I go to, the first thing I do in the morning is have my mags checked by the Chrono staff. JJ had his equipment location check before the match also. I don't think I have seen anyone else do that. I bet there were a bunch of first time Open shooters that wished they had

I didn't even know you could do that. Good to know.

 

[BostonBullit]

The safety tab or frame slot can become rounded over and worn down from dryfire. But most likely the aftermarket trigger was just out of spec from the factory trigger and only had a tiny bit of engagement with the frame. Maybe it wasn't resetting to the full "safe" position for some reason? My stock Glock passed this test easily, at chrono and when I tried to reproduce it at home.

That's possible, I have probably 1000-1500 pulls on the trigger since installation and it's not something I thought to re-check every once in a while. It's also possible that when I did my original test and the trigger stopped moving forward I just stopped applying pressure to it and assumed that things were working properly. On game day the trigger did not release the striker when one finger was used to pull it but did when two were. a leverage issue? who knows. I have submitted two requests for assistance on the manufacturers website but haven't heard anything back. I need to call them but haven't had the time while at work.

There are reports of similar issues cropping up when too heavy a reset spring is used allowing the trigger to reset but not the safety. more reports indicate that it's possible for the plunger spring to get sideways and cause issues. Since the factory trigger group with a different connector and heavier reset spring put the gun back into compliance I don't think either of these issues is the problem....have to do a close inspection looking for what bill is talking about.

 

[TY43215]

Every major match I go to, the first thing I do in the morning is have my mags checked by the Chrono staff. JJ had his equipment location check before the match also. I don't think I have seen anyone else do that. I bet there were a bunch of first time Open shooters that wished they had

He wasn't the only one and I wish more had done ot or the staff ROs had checked on the first stage. even better, ROs at local matches should be checking equipment locations also. Being lax with rules doesn't do anyone a favor. If you only realized how many times I heard, "No one ever said anything before"

Can anybody explain why the test procedure used in the second bolded section resulted in a different outcome than that in the first paragraph?

What was happening "mechanically" in each instance that made the trigger act differently?

Using two fingers, one on each side allowed the trigger to be pulled straight back rather than off to one side or the other. The only Glock I own has an after market trigger group installed and passes the test with no problems. It is tested whenever I leave the range because it is a carry gun. When you read about training accidents in LE it is not always finger on trigger when re-holstering. Many times it is defective safety and the trigger catching on a level three holster. But no one ever believes that now do they.......

 

[Mooney]

Mike Seeklander was quick to man up to not checking his equipment today. It's a shame he didn't see this thread first. He is a class act, for sure, and I have been lucky enough to squad with him a LONG time back.

 

[divehunter]

I'll bet you are right I was one of them. EGW magazine gauge and new base pads arriving today. I had to laugh at myself not checking my magazines with a gauge that costs less than 100 rounds of ammo. Pretty silly, huh? If I could have kicked my own ass, I would have

 

[10mmdave]

I think the chrono team did such a great job they should do it All the time