I hope Wayland stays green

You have the option to get a class III here in MA and you don't have it?! You lucky son of a gun... I'd get the class III just to have it while you can. Buy at least one class III item and then when you have to renew perhaps they'll be more willing to re-issue
 
FWIW, it's a Machine Gun license, not a "Class III". You can have some
factory produced SBS and SBRs without ANY additional license in MA (you
just have to pay the fed tax and do the fed paperwork) so it is rather
counterintuitive to lump NFA/C3 in general in with the MA Machinegun license.
considering that it only covers one sub-category of NFA items.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
FWIW, it's a Machine Gun license, not a "Class III". You can have some
factory produced SBS and SBRs without ANY additional license in MA (you
just have to pay the fed tax and do the fed paperwork) so it is rather
counterintuitive to lump NFA/C3 in general in with the MA Machinegun license.
considering that it only covers one sub-category of NFA items.

-Mike
Click to expand...

Good, valid point [grin] Side note: I thought I had read somewhere that sbs are not allowed in MA.
 
Scrivener said:
You're right; they aren't.
Click to expand...

IIRC SBS are legal as long as they come from the factory as an SBS- the
way the MGLs are worded I believe it only bans guns which were modified
after the fact; eg, a gun owner using a Form 1 to modify an existing
shotgun. I've heard from at least one reliable source that Factory SBS'es,
like the ones remington sells, are MA legal.

Edit: I found the snippet of law that pretains to this: Chapter 140: Section 121 .

" “Sawed-off shotgun”, any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. "

Since a factory SBS is "born" in a certain length, this would preclude the whole bit about "alteration/modification" of course the word "otherwise" I suppose is open to
interpretation.


-Mike
 
Last edited:
In this corner the reigning champion, Scrivener the Insatiable, and in that corner, the challenger, drgrant, also known as Dr. Fearless. Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen, place your bets!

[popcorn]
 
IIRC SBS are legal as long as they come from the factory as an SBS- the
way the MGLs are worded I believe it only bans guns which were modified
after the fact; eg, a gun owner using a Form 1 to modify an existing
shotgun. I've heard from at least one reliable source that Factory SBS'es,
like the ones remington sells, are MA legal.
Click to expand...
The problem is that an SBS meets the state definition of "Firearms" thus placing under the 1998 law that requires lab testing as well as the AG's regulations.

Too bad, the Serbu Super Shorty looks like a really fun toy.
 
Bruce is a heck of a nice guy. Very pro-gun. I've never seen him shoot, but rumor has it that he's quite good with a .44 Magnum Smith.

My first LTC was issued by his predecessor. It was for Target and Sporting, or some such drivel. I took a bunch of classes from Aware, LFI-1, and got my NRA instructor certification. When I went in to renew, I asked for All Lawful Purposes. I was all nervous and worried. I wrote up a letter trying to justify it, and attached about 10 course certifications to the front of my application.

Lt. Cook took a brief look at it. Tore the mess off the application, handed it back to me, saying "I don't need this," and proceeded to type up my LTC for All Lawful Purposes.

We'll miss him.
 
Here's the actual language:

“Sawed-off shotgun”, any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

“Shotgun”, a weapon having a smooth bore with a barrel length equal to or greater than 18 inches with an overall length equal to or greater than 26 inches, and capable of discharging a shot or bullet for each pull of the trigger.
Click to expand...

Note that "sawed-off" does require modification of an existing shotgun; however, as Rob noted, once the barrel length falls below 18", the gun becomes a handgun under Mass. law.
 
Cuda444 said:
So does that mean the Serbu Super Shorty is still out even though it comes that way from the factory? Or would it just need to be registered as a pistol?
Click to expand...


IF it needs to be "registered as a pistol", then it needs to get put on the EOPS List (handgun testing) and AG Regs compliant. Doesn't sound like that is in the cards here.
 
G.L.c. 269, § 10. Carrying dangerous weapons; possession of machine gun or sawed-off shotgun.


(c) Whoever, except as provided by law, possesses a machine gun, as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty, without permission under section one hundred and thirty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty; or whoever owns, possesses or carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a sawed-off shotgun, as defined in said section one hundred and twenty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for life, or for any term of years provided that any sentence imposed under the provisions of this paragraph shall be subject to the minimum requirements of paragraph (a).
 
So does that mean the Serbu Super Shorty is still out even though it comes that way from the factory? Or would it just need to be registered as a pistol?
Click to expand...
Mark is a cool guy, but he's not cool enough to drop 5 of the Super Shorty's onto concrete so he can sell one or two in MA.
 
LenS said:
Lts (Sgts or Capts) do NOT make policy. Either the Chief does or the Mayor/Selectmen/Town Manager DOES make policy!

Just provided as an FYI.
Click to expand...

You're right, but the others may not care enough about the issue to set policy. I think Lt. Cook was granted a lot of leeway, and left to deal with it himself; I'd just hope that we weren't in for a big change.
 
M1911 said:
Nevertheless, as LenS points out, it is the chief that sets policy.
Click to expand...

Even when it is not obvious to outsiders!

There was a particularly difficult town (not mine) where the Lt. handling permits had a bad reputation. When chatting with the Chief (Brother, same Lodge) he winked at me and said "who do you think set that policy?"! [This was said to me shortly after he announced that he'd be retiring in a few months. Said Lt. is now the Chief . . . but I don't think that things have improved there wrt LTCs either.]
 
M1911 said:
Last I heard, Officer Wilkins was in charge of firearms licensing. I would be surprised if that changes.

Nevertheless, as LenS points out, it is the chief that sets policy.
Click to expand...

Huh, that must have been really recent, as Cook handled it just a few months ago for my gf's LTC.

Yes, I know full well that it's the chief that ultimately sets policy; my point was that the chief may or may not have strong feelings about the issue, and may well defer to the Lt to handle things how he/she sees fit. (Until there's a furor in the town.)
 
All I can say is that he must have mellowed later on. I grew up in Wayland, lived there from 1955 to 1979. Back then Cook was universally hated by both the towns people and other cops.

This quote (taken from the link above) typical of his mind set back then

"It seemed like society was going through a readjustment after Vietnam, and we had a lot of young people who were upset with the government," said Cook of his first years as an officer in the early 1970s. "You could either be on the side that was rioting or be on the side of law and order. I gravitated toward the side of law and order."

What Cook said he experienced on the Wayland force in those years was a confrontational generation which included a rapidly growing drug culture, youth groups organizing against police, and violent attacks on police with bullets, razor-tipped tennis balls, and dynamite.

"That was the mindset up until the end of the ’70s," said Cook. "Police would be shot at in Wayland. I knew another officer who was ambushed and attacked by a group after they gave him a phony distress call. The Burlington police station was even dynamited.


"It was pretty much understood back then that if you were responding to a noise complaint, you put on your face shield and grabbed your night stick," said Cook.
Fortunately, said Cook, that level of confrontation in Wayland decreased by the 1980s when the Vietnam generation became older and "slowed down a little bit."


"In the 1980s, when we saw a couple hundred people at the Cochituate ball field, we knew they were there for a baseball game, not for a riot," said Cook.



I spent many,many nights at the cochituate ball field. All the other cops would come by and check up on us, but rarely did we have any problems with them. But every time Cook came by it was a big hassle. He was always looking for a confrontation and was so disliked, he usually found one.

As a side note, I received my first LTC in Wayland when I turned 21 in 1973 (which I have had ever since) so obviously I had no problem with any of the other cops in town.
 

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