I have a 30.06 with a 22.5 inch barrel and a twist rate of 10. Can someone help me out with identifing the best long distance hand load

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I want to shoot over 500 yards and have the most accurate consistent ammo.
I can't walk the woods to hunt anymore, so I want to get into comp shooting. Close range is too easy to keep me interested for long, but the long range will.

I heard about 600-800 yard competetion and would love to get into that, and reloading my ammo will also give me something I can actually do.

I ordered the reloading setup, and have my eyes on a ATN 4K Pro 5-20 power scope. It sounds very good, but a bit pricey

Hoping for someone to help with some guidance, and if you have experience with the ATN scopes, please let me know what you think of them. - My rifle has a muzzle brake and has a kick that is more like a shotgun, than the 30.06 pump that it is.

Thank you

Ken
 

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A river runs thru it........
make friends with Lyman, Speer, Hodgdon, Sierra, Hornady, Nosler. They will lead you in the right direction. But be prepared to spend a lot of money and time......If you're in a hurry, go find another hobby........
 

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Might get better answers in the Swamp Yankee thread.
Nope, his desired scope's too expensive. A true Swamp Yankee will refuse to spend more than the lowest level of Leupold. Preferably, the gun will come with a package deal scope. If not, the question's what's available at the local sporting goods store or KTP. Scope must be in 3-9x40.

@kenjmcd, if you're trying to get into 600+ yard rifle competition and you don't currently handload, take the pump .30-06 with some decent factory .30-06 like surplus match-grade ammo or something quality like Norma ammo and see how well you do for hits with the rifle. You can probably get 1" groups at 100 yards from a bench with a 7600. However, see how your groups are at 200, 300, 400, and 500 yards before planning on doing long range rifle competition with a pump rifle. Pump rifles are primarily designed for short range hunting in heavily wooded states like in New England, NY, PA, and OH, plus down South. Pump rifles are not match rifles. If you're trying to compete at long distance, you want a match rifle.
 

Dave Marshall

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The best hand loading recipe for a .30-.06 pump for long range competition is this:

Take $50 and flush it down the toilet. That is what you are doing trying to shoot anything beyond 200yds with a pump rifle.

It’s also why go-karts aren’t allowed on the interstate.
 
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My rifle took a deer at 550 yards with federal premium. a friend shot it when we swapped guns in the woods - I was to be a driver for that part of the day my current scope is setup to hit 4 inches below the cross hairs at 300 yards, so he was lucky to hit it - he had to convince me where he shot it from

I am serious about long distance accuracy.... will probably not be so much at 1000 yards, but the 800 sounds like a good challenge

I am physically too messed up to go through the woods much if at all. Can't even ride my ATV very much any more.

But I have always been a very good shot.

Hunting was more of an excuse to get into the woods, but love to shoot as well.

At 18 I qualified as expert in the army with the rifle, and have gotten better over the last 40 years.

I found some posts and they are pretty close to each other regarding a long shot load, but was hoping to find someone to shorten my path to the round I will end up using.

I just spent 600 on a reloading setup. Mostly for 30.06, but have a 308, and a couple 45s.

With the 45 my group is about 6 inches at 50 feet, but just got out for the first time in a couple years.

Last year I had 4 surgeries, next month I am scheduled for a knee replacement, later a minor back surgery fix my spinal implant, so I can get an MRI so they can work on my neck.

After that we will see if I can get back to the woods, but really not expecting it to work out that easy.

I am not rich, but I don't do much of anything in the last 10 years, even sold my land in Maine because I couldn't make the 325 mile ride to it very well any more - used to go non stop in 5 hours.

Next year is retirement and planning to move into a 34 foot trailer to live in and see the country for a few years, then what happens. So I have a year to perfect my ammo setups and get better at long shots.

As far as being a troll...I think that would be a physical upgrade compared to what I have had to live with since 1989

In case anyone wants to reach me or wants to see if am a troll

Ken McDonald
378 Village st
Northford, ct 06472
203-605-1633
 

Dave Marshall

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Ken,

if you’re serious about this endeavor, the first thing you need is a good reloading manual.

No one can give you specific loadings for your rifle. It would be irresponsible to do so. Loading for pumps actions is also not the same as for bolt actions. There are loads that are quite safe for bolt actions that could destroy your pump rifle.

I also suspect a .30-06 would be somewhat punishing to an already damaged body. You can achieve the same or even better ballistic performance with a bolt action .223 without abusing yourself.
 

mac1911

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Only input i have is the 4 people i know with the ATN night vision scopes love them.
3 are farmers and have them for critter and varmit control. 2 of those have the thermal scopes
4th likes to try and capture his hunts on video. He has yet to capture anything worthwhile.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqwzUwC0nmY
 
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mac1911

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My rifle took a deer at 550 yards with federal premium. a friend shot it when we swapped guns in the woods - I was to be a driver for that part of the day my current scope is setup to hit 4 inches below the cross hairs at 300 yards, so he was lucky to hit it - he had to convince me where he shot it from

I am serious about long distance accuracy.... will probably not be so much at 1000 yards, but the 800 sounds like a good challenge

I am physically too messed up to go through the woods much if at all. Can't even ride my ATV very much any more.

But I have always been a very good shot.

Hunting was more of an excuse to get into the woods, but love to shoot as well.

At 18 I qualified as expert in the army with the rifle, and have gotten better over the last 40 years.

I found some posts and they are pretty close to each other regarding a long shot load, but was hoping to find someone to shorten my path to the round I will end up using.

I just spent 600 on a reloading setup. Mostly for 30.06, but have a 308, and a couple 45s.

With the 45 my group is about 6 inches at 50 feet, but just got out for the first time in a couple years.

Last year I had 4 surgeries, next month I am scheduled for a knee replacement, later a minor back surgery fix my spinal implant, so I can get an MRI so they can work on my neck.

After that we will see if I can get back to the woods, but really not expecting it to work out that easy.

I am not rich, but I don't do much of anything in the last 10 years, even sold my land in Maine because I couldn't make the 325 mile ride to it very well any more - used to go non stop in 5 hours.

Next year is retirement and planning to move into a 34 foot trailer to live in and see the country for a few years, then what happens. So I have a year to perfect my ammo setups and get better at long shots.

As far as being a troll...I think that would be a physical upgrade compared to what I have had to live with since 1989

In case anyone wants to reach me or wants to see if am a troll

Ken McDonald
378 Village st
Northford, ct 06472
203-605-1633
far
IF truely serious you could probably get a entry level bolt gun and scope more suite for 800 yard matches .. I also highly recomend figuring out what type of matches you plan to attend.
Prone, bench, multiple position ectect.
For the money on those ATNs your probably into the price range of some decent scopes more suited for long range precision shooting.
The 7600 is limitted in over all length of your ammo because of the magazine , single load is a option.
Also setting that pump up for some matches wont be easy. Bipod is a no go. Its fairly light.
not sure how good the trigger could be worked over. Plus you will have to break position to cycle the action.
as far as loads , try some 175gn FGMM . Should easily get you out to 800 yards. Or load up some 168 match bullets with any suitable powder to 2600-2700 fps and do some OCW testing and see where you can get with it.
I will be getting my hands on a 7400 semi auto in 30-06 at some point and testing it out.
 
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Well, Dave Marshall said it best.
Your expectation will require a great deal more than $50.
But you can work up some fantastic handloads and see how far you can push your level of confidence, tho.
That's what shooting is.
Not the lofty goal of a specific yardage, but I'm certain that you can impress yourself with the discipline that long range shooting will require.
Here's a place I get alot of recommended loads here, some verified and some just recommendations: I wish you had a bolt action to start with, tho.

Win mod 70 XTR varmint .243 Win.JPG
 
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I have the ATN scope, and set it up and zeroed it. Because of the distance I plan at shooting (600) yards, and the shells looked good while working up the scale, I made a bunch of rounds at the 90 percent scale between Min and Max loads. I think the shells are being made a bit too wide because I am having a hard time re-sizing the shells, and think I should use less powder. I have the Lyman 8 position turret press - have three sizes setup on it.

Can someone give an idea of where on the scale between minimum and maximum that would be a likely place for a 600 yard target round.

I don't care about the cost of the powder because its small, so I figured since it seemed like the shells were not being mis-shaped I would go high - seems that is not a good idea. Looking for serious help on this.

It would be easier if I lived on a farm, but don't have a easy place to shoot

For the 308 I have Varget, and for the 30.06 I have IMR 4350.

I am using Hornady ELD-X 178 grain bullets and plan on using the same bullet in both guns.

I don't really want to buy another gun, but may check it out.

In a year or so ( depending on this virus ) I am selling the house and moving into a new 33 foot camper to explore the country and don't want to have more guns than I need.

Because of the virus, most ranges are closed, and having a hard time finding a place to shoot

Thank you

Ken
203-605-1633
 

Dave Marshall

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I have the ATN scope, and set it up and zeroed it. Because of the distance I plan at shooting (600) yards, and the shells looked good while working up the scale, I made a bunch of rounds at the 90 percent scale between Min and Max loads. I think the shells are being made a bit too wide because I am having a hard time re-sizing the shells, and think I should use less powder. I have the Lyman 8 position turret press - have three sizes setup on it.

Can someone give an idea of where on the scale between minimum and maximum that would be a likely place for a 600 yard target round.

I don't care about the cost of the powder because its small, so I figured since it seemed like the shells were not being mis-shaped I would go high - seems that is not a good idea. Looking for serious help on this.

It would be easier if I lived on a farm, but don't have a easy place to shoot

For the 308 I have Varget, and for the 30.06 I have IMR 4350.

I am using Hornady ELD-X 178 grain bullets and plan on using the same bullet in both guns.

I don't really want to buy another gun, but may check it out.

In a year or so ( depending on this virus ) I am selling the house and moving into a new 33 foot camper to explore the country and don't want to have more guns than I need.

Because of the virus, most ranges are closed, and having a hard time finding a place to shoot

Thank you

Ken
203-605-1633
Ken,

Do have a reloading manual and have you read it? If not, is your health insurance and life insurance paid up?

The questions you are asking demonstrate a real lack of understanding of the reloading process. You MUST get a manual and some guidance. You are setting off a 40,000psi explosion next to your face. It’s not the time for guess work.

Load safe ammo first. Then learn to load accurate ammo.

I would recommend you get yourself a quality bolt action rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor and shoot factory ammo. There are many quality offerings available that will get you to 1000yds easily.
 
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I have all of those, and I am already a physical trainwreck.

I like your delivery with the message and hope you can tell me where in the scale between minimum and maximum do you load.

I made several load levels with the powder then worked my way up after checking the cases for bad news.

The cases all looked good, so I thought I was ok until I tried to re-size the shells.

Now I am thinking I should be around the 40 percent load.

Can you, or anyone let me know where in the range is normal for a long shot

The only time I reloaded before this was in 1979 and it was a 44 mag, and they gave one amount of powder

thank you
 

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Nobody can tell you what the best load for your gun is. First and foremost, is, is your barrel up to the task. It's a lot of trial and error. You need to try different bullets different loads and different powder until you find what works best in YOUR rifle.

A 90% load should not deform your cases. Are you lubing them before you resize them?


The best I would do for you is give you a chart and you need to figure out what works best for you and your setup.



 
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The gun is still fine, and shot some of my left over Core-lock 180 grain, and Federal premium Pointed rounds and all looks good.

When I shoot any of the ones I made, they felt like the store bought ammo

Hornady gave me the powder info, and I made the info below - next to the powder name is the amount I was using - 90 percent of the scale.

Hornady ELD -X 178 grain ( 308 )

Hodgden Varget
( Powder ) 41.6 grains

35 grains ( min charge ) – 42.4 grains ( max charge )

80% scale is 40.92 5% scale is .37

Hornady ELD -X 178 grain ( 30.06 )

IMR 4350 ( Powder ) 53.7 grains

48.4 grains ( min charge ) – 54.3 grains ( max charge )

80% scale is 53.12 5% scale is .295



I used the lube that came with the press, and I called Lyman to talk with them. I talked to a tech that said the lube ( in a hand spray bottle ) is not a good lube. So I ordered a couple different ones to try out.

I took apart the rounds I had left. I am switching from the sierra bullets to Hornady, so I figured now is a good time to make up some different strength rounds to see if I see a difference.

I got a couple shells stuck, so I ordered a set of lee dies to see if they act different. Lyman just switched from a set of 3 to a set of two dies for 30.06.

When I got a couple shells stuck when I got them all the way into the die. And they have to go all the way in per the instructions and multiple videos I watched.

If I could find someone to check out and setup the press right I would pay them to go over this - but don't know anyone, and the virus isn't helping.

So I am going to the beginning using all new brass, and will start lower and see if maybe I had bad brass in those cases where they were more out of shape
 

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I’ll repeat my previous advice.

Get a rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 and buy factory match ammo.

You are wasting time and money trying to reload .30-06 for a pump action rifle to shoot at 600 yards. The rifle will not be accurate and neither will the reloaded ammo. The reason no one is giving you any answers to your questions is because no one would actually do what you are trying to do.
 

dhuze

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If you are getting cases stuck in the dies you need a little more lube. You also need to lube inside the case mouth. Buy a lube pad, pud some lube on it and lightly roll your cases on the pad before putting them in the dies.
Lymans dies aren't going to work worse than another brand. Save your money.

As was mentioned, you are going to be better off with .223/5.56 all the way around. Ammo is cheaper, components are cheaper and they are very accurate at those distances. It will also be a lot easier on you since you seem to have some serious problems.

You also mention you have a .308. What is this gun? It might be a much better option than your 30-06 pump.
 

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I’ll repeat my previous advice.

Get a rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 and buy factory match ammo.

You are wasting time and money trying to reload .30-06 for a pump action rifle to shoot at 600 yards. The rifle will not be accurate and neither will the reloaded ammo. The reason no one is giving you any answers to your questions is because no one would actually do what you are trying to do.
Amen.
 
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my 308 is a savage 99 from 1954. It has a 20 inch barrel and 10 twist.
My reloading goal is a consistant round for 600 yards.

Once I get that the rest is on me.

I have target shot at 300 yards with the 30.06 and the round hit 4 inches below the cross hairs, an easy compensation.

I will look int a long distance gun as sell, it may be cheaper in the long run.

With my body issues, there is not a lot I can do anymore, so I will be doing this a lot as long as I can.
 

mac1911

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my 308 is a savage 99 from 1954. It has a 20 inch barrel and 10 twist.
My reloading goal is a consistant round for 600 yards.

Once I get that the rest is on me.

I have target shot at 300 yards with the 30.06 and the round hit 4 inches below the cross hairs, an easy compensation.

I will look int a long distance gun as sell, it may be cheaper in the long run.

With my body issues, there is not a lot I can do anymore, so I will be doing this a lot as long as I can.
when you resize your brass there will be some resistance. The cases expand to "fire form" to your chamber. So depending On how far your setting your shoulder back on your resized brass will depend on the "expansion"

Take the time to learn to set up your brass for your rifle, Dont just adjust the die until it contacts the shell holder and 1/4 turn more and call it done.
As for loads.... your going to have to do some of your own load development.

I am doing something different than you. 98% of all my rifle shooting is at 200 yards so my loads , even my 30-06 are with lighter bullets and lower powder charges. I start with the lowest powder charge with the load data for my bullet/powder/caliber and work up usually in 1 grain steps or if the data has 5 or six loads I will load them. until I get the best consistent groups. I will then go back and work with some finer adjustments in say 1/2 grain steps.

I look for a balance of consistent groups and also how much of a change with in a certain powder charge can change mu poa vs poi

Check out Optimum Charge Weight

Now this stuff does not work really well until your consistently shooting at least sub 2moa. It took a me a while to get all this to work for me but once I had a rifle and ammo and skills to hold sub 2 moa ( on a really good day I can shoot moa and sneak in some sub moa days) it really started to make more sense and show its face on paper down range.
 

PatMcD

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my 308 is a savage 99 from 1954. It has a 20 inch barrel and 10 twist.
My reloading goal is a consistant round for 600 yards.

Once I get that the rest is on me.

I have target shot at 300 yards with the 30.06 and the round hit 4 inches below the cross hairs, an easy compensation.

I will look int a long distance gun as sell, it may be cheaper in the long run.

With my body issues, there is not a lot I can do anymore, so I will be doing this a lot as long as I can.
This has got to be a troll post.

But on the off chance that it's not, let me reply by saying: don't bother trying to get a 600 yard load for a Savage 99, and don't bother trying to get one for a Remington pump-rifle either. Neither rifle is capable of doing what you want it to do.
Unless all you want to do is occasionally hit a 4x8 sheet of plywood at 600 yards.
 

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This has got to be a troll post.

But on the off chance that it's not, let me reply by saying: don't bother trying to get a 600 yard load for a Savage 99, and don't bother trying to get one for a Remington pump-rifle either. Neither rifle is capable of doing what you want it to do.
Unless all you want to do is occasionally hit a 4x8 sheet of plywood at 600 yards.
I was about to comment how the real trolls are people like you. Who gives one f*** what anyone does with their own guns and rifles. Then I read how he dropped a deer at 550 yards, flame away 🤷🏼‍♂️
 

PatMcD

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I was about to comment how the real trolls are people like you. Who gives one f*** what anyone does with their own guns and rifles. Then I read how he dropped a deer at 550 yards, flame away 🤷🏼‍♂️
The original post was about being interested in 5-600 yard competition with a Remington pump rifle, then goes to shooting the same with a Savage 99. I reply that he shouldn't bother with either of those rifles, and that makes me a troll?

edited to add: I never doubt somebody when they say they shot a deer at 550 yards (or 1000 yards for that matter). Any rifle/cartridge/shooter combination can do anything once. When shooting competition, it's all about consistency; you need to do it again and again with precision. Those rifles aren't capable of it. It's a waste of time to even try. A person will be much happier, less frustrated, and above all SAFE if they use the proper tool for the job.
 
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JRT

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The original post was about being interested in 5-600 yard competition with a Remington pump rifle, then goes to shooting the same with a Savage 99. I reply that he shouldn't bother with either of those rifles, and that makes me a troll?

edited to add: I never doubt somebody when they say they shot a deer at 550 yards (or 1000 yards for that matter). Any rifle/cartridge/shooter combination can do anything once. When shooting competition, it's all about consistency; you need to do it again and again with precision. Those rifles aren't capable of it. It's a waste of time to even try. A person will be much happier, less frustrated, and above all SAFE if they use the proper tool for the job.
Nah, you're not a troll but the guy clearly isn't interested in your opinion, no matter how learned it may be. You were the 10th guy to tell him his pump rifle wasn't up to the task and he pushed through and you still responded to him that his post must be a troll post. I'm a fairly accomplished PRS competitor, maybe not as accomplished as you but you act like reaching 600 is some holy grail. I have a 600 yard range at my house and I could have anyone with a modicum of shooting experience on 20 inch steel with a heavy barreled AR with limited coaching in 5 minutes. Would they win a PRS competition, probably not, maybe he's not looking to win anything either. Now, I don't know shit about a pump rifle because that sounds stupid, but could it be any worse than a mid level AR with a heavy barrel?
 

PatMcD

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Nah, you're not a troll but the guy clearly isn't interested in your opinion, no matter how learned it may be. You were the 10th guy to tell him his pump rifle wasn't up to the task and he pushed through and you still responded to him that his post must be a troll post. I'm a fairly accomplished PRS competitor, maybe not as accomplished as you but you act like reaching 600 is some holy grail. I have a 600 yard range at my house and I could have anyone with a modicum of shooting experience on 20 inch steel with a heavy barreled AR with limited coaching in 5 minutes. Would they win a PRS competition, probably not, maybe he's not looking to win anything either. Now, I don't know shit about a pump rifle because that sounds stupid, but could it be any worse than a mid level AR with a heavy barrel?
I don't know about 600 yards being any kind of Holy Grail, but I do know what is required to consistently score well at that range. When I read "600 yard competition", I assume either Highpower XTC or F-class. Both require a pretty high level of accuracy. I don't shoot PRS (yet), so I'll let you educate us on that, but being able to hit 20" steel doesn't mean much to me (that's either a 9, a 10, or an X, but which?).
A pump or lever hunting rifle, other than probably not being accurate enough to safely keep all rounds on target, is also impossible to use when in position with a sling (or off a rest if F-class).
 
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