hunter education

SSShooter

SSShooter

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It's night 2 of 6 in my hunter education class and I'm wondering if I will learn anything. Tonight we were told "Always keep the action open. The action means the gun has 3 major actions - it loads, it fires, and it unloads."

I'm an experienced shooter so I know this is incorrect, but it's a bit concerning because I know there are people in the class that do not have an fid or ltc and have had no other firearms training yet. Are all of the classes like this, or are my instructors exceptions?
 
Makes me feel safe. [rolleyes] MN (or was it MI) last season had zero hunting accidents. 0. Zero. Granted, it's the only season on record as such, but with some hundreds of thousands of hunters, mighty impressive. In MA, we had at least two on opening day, and one with someone on NES mid season getting grazed by buckshot on nantucket. Who knows how many in total. We don't have hundreds of thousands of hunters. We don't have more than 150K licensees of all types...
 
boxerjake, I don't want to name the town in order to protect the well-meaning but not so innocent. However I will tell you that they allowed several walk-ins on the first night even though it seemed to be a full house, and they even let someone that showed up for the first time on the second night register for the class. If I were you, I'd find a conveniently located class and just show up on the first night.

It really seems like a wasted opportunity here. There are 50+ people in the class that are either getting bad info because they don't know better, or are bored out of their mind and find it ridiculous because they do know better. After it is over, I am going to look into what is involved in becoming an instructor myself.

The instructors in this class seem like real nice guys, but either they don't know their stuff at all, or they don't know how to present it. Yet on the first night we were given the impression that they are all certified instructors.

Last night I "learned":

The gun in this photo is illegal in MA because it is a rifle.
Click to expand...
This caused confusion and grumbling in the group, at which point I interjected "Don't you mean the rifle is not illegal, but hunting with it is?" The instructor agreed and the class seemed relieved. I didn't bother saying it is only illegal to hunt with depending on what caliber it is and what you are hunting.

All modern firearms except revolvers have one of the safeties shown in this photo.
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The photo was circa 1970 and showed common safeties on shotguns and rifles only. I wished I had my XD with me so I could have asked him to show me the safety. Unless I heard wrong, the guy that stated this also teaches a class that covers MA LTC requirements.

A "mod" choke means it is a "modern" choke.
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Silly me, all this time I thought it was a modified choke [laugh]

You can get a hunting license at Zayre's or Walmart
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Hmm, I knew Walmart sold them...
 
Hunter Education course in MA IS adequate for a LTC! [Much to the chagrin of many licensing officers . . . it is specifically mentioned in the statutes.]

I wonder if the canned curriculum or instructor is in a time-warp? I don't know if Zayre's ever sold hunting licenses, but they've been out of business for a very long time.
 
LenS said:
Hunter Education course in MA IS adequate for a LTC! [Much to the chagrin of many licensing officers . . . it is specifically mentioned in the statutes.]
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[shocked] Holy cow! I thought it was enough for an FID, but I didn't realize you could get an LTC with it too. I know several people that are starting to think about getting an LTC and I will definitely steer them towards better training than this.

LenS said:
I wonder if the canned curriculum or instructor is in a time-warp? I don't know if Zayre's ever sold hunting licenses, but they've been out of business for a very long time.
Click to expand...
I think a bit of both. The Zayre's remark was part of an ad-hoc story, but the slides and movies seem to be no newer than from the 70s. One of the cars that was shown looked to be 1950s vintage and much of the stuff is in black and white. The curriculum materials definitely need an update.
 
When I took my course, they were telling people to open the action and look into the muzzle of lever loading rifles to make sure they weren't loaded... I didnt like that.
 
I'm also on my second night (2/6) and so far so good. The instructors are experienced knowledgeable hunters. I do believe The Basic Hunter Education Course gets you a FID not a LTC.
 
Carabina44 said:
I'm also on my second night (2/6) and so far so good. The instructors are experienced knowledgeable hunters. I do believe The Basic Hunter Education Course gets you a FID not a LTC.
Click to expand...

And to play Scriv for a moment . . . [devil]

What part of the bolded section below do you not understand?

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131p.htm
Chapter 140: Section 131P. Basic firearms safety certificate; instructors

Section 131P. (a) Any person making application for the issuance of a firearms identification card under section 129B, a Class A or Class B license to carry firearms under section 131 or 131F or a permit to purchase under section 131A who was not licensed under the provisions of this chapter on June 1, 1998 shall, in addition to the requirements set forth in said section 129B, 131, 131A or 131F, submit to the licensing authority a basic firearms safety certificate; provided, however, that a certificate issued by the division of law enforcement in the department of fisheries, wildlife and environmental law enforcement pursuant to the provisions of section 14 of chapter 131 evidencing satisfactory completion of a hunter education course shall serve as a valid substitute for a basic firearms safety certificate required under this section;
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To the OP: please call 508 389 6300 and report this instructor to Mass F&W so they can review the instructor. If hes bad enough they will revoke his creds and make him retrain. The only thing worse than no info is the wrong info, his horrible training will get someone hurt in the field.
 
terraformer said:
. In MA, we had at least two on opening day, and one with someone on NES mid season getting grazed by buckshot on nantucket. Who knows how many in total. We don't have hundreds of thousands of hunters. We don't have more than 150K licensees of all types...
Click to expand...
My first day photo. Inny and outy.
415602579988d98b35a0b.jpg
 
yanici said:
I stand corrected. Won't work in most of the towns I know of.
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That's because many PDs do NOT follow MGL when it's convenient to do otherwise.

I've read the arguments by some PDs, but Hunter Safety is ensconced in MGL as ACCEPTABLE TRAINING for LTC or FID. So the Legislature (and the Gov signed it) says one thing is now law and local LE says "screw the law, I'll do what I want to". I ask "what's new?"

Again, this is why H 5229 SHOULD become LAW!!
 
Like I'm in 3rd Grade Again

I was in the 3rd grade in the late 60s, which is when the slides and 1 film we watched in the Hunter Ed class were made. But what really harkens back to 3rd grade is the homework.

In the package of materials is a laminated card with the "10 Rules" of safety. Actually each rule is about 3 and should be the 30 Rules. The homework? Each week, hand copy the rules onto a piece of paper, put my name and date on the paper and turn it in as my proof of attendance. I timed it. It took 12 minutes to copy it. It took 1 full sheet of paper and I had a hand cramp at the end.

I understand the importance of committing rules of safety to memeory. I understand that they have to cater to the lowest common denominator, but this is effen rediculous. I'm not looking forward to 5 more classes!
 
Sorry Bob, it sounds like you are in a very similar class to mine. The materials are sorely in need of an update and I had to do the same homework. My instructor called those rules the 10 commandments, but I referred to them as the 100 commandments. My 6 year old that can recite the 4 rules on demand and is VERY safe with a gun read the "10" rules and said they were "stupid" because they duplicated rules and listed 2 or three different thoughts per rule while adding nothing to the 4 that he obeys.

Hopefully your instructors are better than mine, since that was the source of misinformation in my classes. At the end of it all, I did pick up some tidbits from the EPO that visited (like no lead shot for waterfowl), and the guy that covered black powder provided a nice introduction to something I have been interested in for a while now. Everyone in my class passed the final test, with almost everyone scoring in the 90s. I still wouldn't want to be in the same woods as some of the folks that passed though if their only introduction to firearms remains this "training".
 
Thanks for the sympathies SSS. I actually don't need the class since I have a valid hunting license from CA, but I'm going to tough it out anyway. The last hunter safety course I took was 25 years ago in CA where the rules and hunting styles are very different. I'm sure I'll find some wheat in the chaff.
 
IMHO, these classes are critical in MA. Unlike other states that are even a little more wide open(not even talking Wyoming here) we are squeezed tightly together even on public land by setbacks.
And then, Opening day of shotgun season is so fuddtastic that I'm almost afraid to leave my house :/
You combine no room and lack of hunting safety fundamentals with buck fever and you end up with more hunting accidents.

Also, I know many people who are great shots with a lot of shooting experience and knowledge and they can't hunt. Shooting is one small part of hunting. An important skill that should be honed, but, still a small part.
The newly introduced shooter is practically on the same playing field with most seasoned shooters when it comes to 'learning' to hunt. Shooting is just shooting, it's not combat, it's not self-defense, it's not hunting. These things require training.

These classes should be the most up-to-date information we can provide but it's not there yet. And, the instructors do this without pay because they enjoy passing their passion on to others. Many of the instructors take favorably to constructive criticism and differences of opinion but some don't. Either way, the folks at MassWildlife most definitely need to know your opinions about your classes and instructors.
(/end mini-rantish post)
 

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