Bow hunter wants to hunt my property... What do I need to know from a legal standpoint?

[Mark from MA]

As far as your neighbors that's between you and them but as a hunter......I'd love to have you give the guy access to hunt.....and tell your neighbors to go f*** themselves if they have a problem with it.

Obviously the hunter in question can't hunt legally by law because of the stupid setback rule in MA....but this is the attitude most of the people I hunted for down in CT had. One old guy I hunted for used to say.....shoot them so they go over to those fxcking a**h***s yard and die. I hate those liberal bastards.

Honestly for urban hunting to work....this is the attitude most landowners have to have.....your gonna hurt some feelings, until then enjoy your lyme disease, ticks, hitting deer with your car, them eating your thousands worth of landscaping, and shitting all over the place.

 

[Rat187]

He was apparently grateful that I let him on my property to search for his gut shot.Buck. The next day he said he had some venison steaks and some meat for me I said all good, but when I texted him last night and told him the hunt was off, he said, "no problem" click. Apparently his feelings were hurt, because no more mention of venison meat for me...lol

 

[Mark from MA]

When I hunted on landowners land, they got all the steaks they wanted. Most of them didn't want any. These were mostly city type urbanites....some would stipulate that I give some to the homeless shelter as part of my permission. Had no issue with that. Id send a copy of the previous years donation reciept, from the foodbank, as part of my yearly letter for their permission.

Last hunt of the year, the local food bank in Stamford would get a 50# of donated meat around Xmas...... which is like 1.5 deer, so I would shoot 2 for the homeless shelter every year. The lady that ran the place, knew me by name when I'd come in every year, and say...the guys and gals have been waiting for your venison! Probably the thing I felt most bad about when I stopped hunting down there.

 

[arlow]

He was apparently grateful that I let him on my property to search for his gut shot.Buck. The next day he said he had some venison steaks and some meat for me I said all good, but when I texted him last night and told him the hunt was off, he said, "no problem" click. Apparently his feelings were hurt, because no more mention of venison meat for me...lol

Generally when you tell someone in that scenario that it is "all good" it translates to, you don't want the venison. And how does someone hang up on your text? "click".......

 

[Mark from MA]

Generally when you tell someone in that scenario that it is "all good" it translates to, you don't want the venison. And how does someone hang up on your text? "click".......

This.....and if the bowhunter continues to hunt legally somewhere else in the neighborhood and has half a brain....he would want to keep in your good graces in case he has to track again.

I had properties I had no hunting permission, but had tracking only permission on, and that to me was nearly as valuable as hunting permission. Knowing you can just walk on someone''s
place and retrieve a deer without bothering them, is good to have on adjacent properties to the one you can legally hunt.

I bowhunted some super tight spots...like an acre...but knowing I could legally track on the next 4 adjacent 2 acre lots......took a lot of stress out of the deal.

Of course some MA EPO's would argue tracking is technically hunting, and might be all gay about it.............but CT never had a problem.

Permission slip said tracking and recovery only and I didn't carry a bow on those properties during retrieval. If I knew I had to dispatch a deer on their property....I would have knocked on the door first and got the OK for it. Never happened. Deer was dead and hauled away 95% of the time without them even knowing I was there.

There was occasions I think I wounded and lost a total of 3 deer over 20 years, so that did happen too...but mainly I knew if it was lethal or not and acted accordingly. I remember each of them, Hit a doe in the shoulder once, no penetration, hit a HUGE buck, shaved its brisket, or sliced it too low, and tracked it thru several neighborhoods(not a good day), and shot a decent buck a little high in no mans land (above heart/lung but below spine) ., he was on the camera, a few days later all good.

 

[Rat187]

I understand all sides in this thread, thanks all here on NES for educating me on Ma bowhunting law and etiquette. Sometimes there this no one correct answer. especially, in my situation, vis-à-vis my non-Karen neighbor.

 

[REM870]

The problem comes if he shoots a deer and it runs onto the neighbors property who do not want to allow hunting. If they refuse to allow him to retrieve the deer he cannot enter the property to retrieve the deer because that would be trespassing and hunting without permission. In that case he would have to call the environmental police and hope that they'll assist him in retrieving the deer since they can legally enter the property to retrieve the animal or he could be stuck in a wanton waste situation. Very real possibly of more of "the man" gettinng involved in your life. Of course it also depends on how big your property is and where he'll be hunting and how skilled he is with a bow.

Hope? ! Hope!!??? I'd be all over Ranger Rick if he didn't escort me onto the property to gather my legally harvested dear.
Its part of there job to keep situations exactly like this from escalating into something else.
They even mention it in hunter ed.

 

[Mark from MA]

Hope? ! Hope!!??? I'd be all over Ranger Rick if he didn't escort me onto the property to gather my legally harvested dear.
Its part of there job to keep situations exactly like this from escalating into something else.
They even mention it in hunter ed.

Speaking for CT, as this happened to me once in 20 years. De-escalation is keeping both parties apart from each other.

This is the rule there from what the GW explained to me one time during a recovery, when the landowner was a super a**h*** about it. This was early in my urban hunting career, as if it was later....I would have just let the deer rot and walked away if I got that much grief from a douchebag landowner.

The deer are property of the state, the landowner does have right of first refusal to the deer, even if you as a hunter legally killed it, as its on his land, and the warden has to ask the landowner if they want it. After the landowner saying no, the warden decides disposition and in most cases would give the deer to the hunter who killed it.

At NO time was I to be on the property of the landowner in question......even with the Warden present, with exception of the first time in a situation where I went and asked permission to retrieve. Once they said NO, (landowner hated me instantly in this case) I HAD to stay off.

If I was knowingly on the land after that first incident......., he would have to issue me trespass order by law. So if the landowner doesn't want you on the property.....you are not going to be escorted by the Warden. You are gonna wait on legal land until the disposition of the deer is determined and most cases they will bring it over to you.

In that case, Warden just told me shoot as many as you want, but if it ends up over there, don't go over there. Call me and Ill go get it. If you step foot on his land I have to trespass you.

In CT, if you kill it, and its on the landowners land you don't have permission on, and they want it.....YOUR SOL.

Fisher Tech can tell us more how this relates to MA as he was an EPO here. Laws may be different as CT is a full private land permission only state for hunting access.

 

[REM870]

Speaking for CT, as this happened to me once in 20 years. De-escalation is keeping both parties apart from each other.

This is the rule there from what the GW explained to me one time during a recovery, when the landowner was a super a**h*** about it. This was early in my urban hunting career, as if it was later....I would have just let the deer rot and walked away if I got that much grief from a douchebag landowner.

The deer are property of the state, the landowner does have right of first refusal to the deer, even if you as a hunter legally killed it, as its on his land, and the warden has to ask the landowner if they want it. After the landowner saying no, the warden decides disposition and in most cases would give the deer to the hunter who killed it.

At NO time was I to be on the property of the landowner in question......even with the Warden present, with exception of the first time in a situation where I went and asked permission to retrieve. Once they said NO, (landowner hated me instantly in this case) I HAD to stay off.

If I was knowingly on the land after that first incident......., he would have to issue me trespass order by law. So if the landowner doesn't want you on the property.....you are not going to be escorted by the Warden. You are gonna wait on legal land until the disposition of the deer is determined and most cases they will bring it over to you.

In that case, Warden just told me shoot as many as you want, but if it ends up over there, don't go over there. Call me and Ill go get it. If you step foot on his land I have to trespass you.

In CT, if you kill it, and its on the landowners land you don't have permission on, and they want it.....YOUR SOL.

Fisher Tech can tell us more how this relates to MA as he was an EPO here. Laws may be different as CT is a full private land permission only state for hunting access

In Mass that's YOUR animal !!!
As long as you took it legally but yes the landowner says no you cant be on my land (to retrieve)
You call the EPO's don't bother with the local police. They will show up landowner will call them.
Don't talk to them only to inform them yes the game warden has been called they are on there way.

Local pd is gonna go fishing don't talk !! Sit in your vehicle and wait for the game warden

 

[Dennis in MA]

Generally when you tell someone in that scenario that it is "all good" it translates to, you don't want the venison. And how does someone hang up on your text? "click".......

I usually slam mine down on the granite counter like I was hanging up a 70's era BellElectric handset.

I've lost 4 phones that way in teh last 18 months. LOL

 

[RumRunner]

I usually slam mine down on the granite counter like I was hanging up a 70's era BellElectric handset.

I've lost 4 phones that way in teh last 18 months. LOL

 

[Mark from MA]

In Mass that's YOUR animal !!!
As long as you took it legally but yes the landowner says no you cant be on my land (to retrieve)
You call the EPO's don't bother with the local police. They will show up landowner will call them.
Don't talk to them only to inform them yes the game warden has been called they are on there way.

Local pd is gonna go fishing don't talk !! Sit in your vehicle and wait for the game warden

That may be the case in MA.....especially if they can charge you with wanton waste for not following up.

In either state once told no, I would not go on the land again, and let the EPO deal with all of it. Like I said before, after I hunted down in CT a while, I never ran into another situation like this, but if I did......I wouldn't waste my day. Stupid landowners can deal with smelly rotting carcasses if they don't want me to retrieve.

Yeah...cops were at that incident in CT I described, because the landowner called them. Once I showed up, wanted the deer, and the cop found out it was a hunting thing,.......he just said, EPO is on the way...its his jurisdiction, and the he quickly left. EPO showed up right after, checked my license, and permission slip for the adjacent property, asked landowner if he wanted it, Landowner said no, EPO said ok, Ill put it on the deer rack and drive it over to you.

That's when the landowner flipped his lid.....and the EPO threatened to arrest him if he got in his way. I was giggling all the way back thru the woods, but there was some yelling for sure.

EPO must have been really pissed off at the landowner after that, when he drove the deer over on the rack, he told me shoot as many deer here as you have tags for, Id love to go over and ruin that guys day 3 or 4 more times.

 

[straightshooterjake]

I am not a hunter, but I have been following this thread with interest. I am saddened by the stories about difficulty tracking and recovering animals.

I have spent a lot of my life in the suburbs, and some of it in much more rural areas. And I have really seen a difference between country liberals, and liberals who live in the country, but don't understand the realities of having land.

In my experience, there really are liberal people who know rural life. There are not many of them, but there are some. And everyone I have met who really knows the country wants responsible wildlife management. I have known people who would not hunt, and do not like hunting, who are still in favor of hunting in their area. Having your gardens and shrubbery destroyed, and ticks everywhere, will do that too you. And responsible people understand that if the deer are overpopulated, then in some bad year there will be a huge die off from starvation over the winter.

I understand people who do not want hunting on their property, but I really do not understand people with lots of land who want to interfere with nearby hunters. On the plus side, some people do evolve on this issue as they spend more time in the county, but sadly others don't.

 

[Mark from MA]

I am not a hunter, but I have been following this thread with interest. I am saddened by the stories about difficulty tracking and recovering animals.

I have spent a lot of my life in the suburbs, and some of it in much more rural areas. And I have really seen a difference between country liberals, and liberals who live in the country, but don't understand the realities of having land.

In my experience, there really are liberal people who know rural life. There are not many of them, but there are some. And everyone I have met who really knows the country wants responsible wildlife management. I have known people who would not hunt, and do not like hunting, who are still in favor of hunting in their area. Having your gardens and shrubbery destroyed, and ticks everywhere, will do that too you. And responsible people understand that if the deer are overpopulated, then in some bad year there will be a huge die off from starvation over the winter.

I understand people who do not want hunting on their property, but I really do not understand people with lots of land who want to interfere with nearby hunters. On the plus side, some people do evolve on this issue as they spend more time in the county, but sadly others don't.

There will always be 10-15% of the population that are just anti hunting because they are just wired that way and go on about their day to do something anti hunting. Just like 10% of the hunters are game hogs or poachers and act like slobs killing everything they see, doing stupid shit, giving hunters a bad name. The people in between are who we need to provide a positive message to.

The evolving comes in when they realize that most hunters just dont want to kill everything they see, they love the animals too, and also love the natural meat they provide, and its a balance.

The more I interacted with regular people who didn't hunt, or understand hunting until they met me, let me hunt a while, and the better they understood, and always signed my slips. Some of them would even call me and say, hey, haven't got your slip to sign, your not quitting me are you? Many of these people looked at me like I had 4 heads the first day I darkened their door asking for permission. A lot of them ended up good friends and talking to their friends and getting me more spots.

But there will always be the 10 percenter Karen who doesn't get it........

 

[kerryman71]

Had a guy one time ask how I could kill an innocent animal. I went into the conservation aspect of things, and pointed out that left to their own devices, deer will destroy their own habitat with some getting it all or most of it, and the others literally starving to death, when their population is above carrying capacity. He said he didn't care, it's cruel. At that point I started to explain that with a good ethical shot, the deer is generally dead before it really even knows what happened.

Call me crazy, but if I could choose to be walking along in the peace and quiet in the woods one minute, then, unbeknownst to me, going on a ride in a sled out of the woods the next or starving to death, I think I'd choose the walk and sleigh ride

 

[Mark from MA]

Had a guy one time ask how I could kill an innocent animal. I went into the conservation aspect of things, and pointed out that left to their own devices, deer will destroy their own habitat with some getting it all or most of it, and the others literally starving to death, when their population is above carrying capacity. He said he didn't care, it's cruel. At that point I started to explain that with a good ethical shot, the deer is generally dead before it really even knows what happened.

Call me crazy, but if I could choose to be walking along in the peace and quiet in the woods one minute, then, unbeknownst to me, going on a ride in a sled out of the woods the next or starving to death, I think I'd choose the walk and sleigh ride

I would explain this to people who were on the fence. Its easy where deer are in the suburbs overpopulated. They see them injured and killed by cars all the time.

I simply say, which do you think is more cruel....a deer getting hit by a car, and maimed and dying a slow death in a ditch, that could take days. Or me shooting an arrow thru its lungs and it passes out in 30 seconds time from oxygen loss to the brain.

Remember a death from Mother nature due to starvation, car strikes, and coyotes eating its guts out while its still alive.....is gonna be worse than any arrow it will see from me. Add to that there will be less shrub damage, less lyme disease, and less injuries to the human population as result of hunting to maintain proper deer management as well. And, the meat from deer is providing nourishing meals to the homeless, or my family. Not wasted rotting on the side of the road in a ditch.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

Like anything in Massachusetts it's difficult finding clear rules with regards to bow hunting.... One of the things I don't want is to invite 'the man' onto my property or any hassle with my neighbors appreciate any help you can give

As long as you are not charging him anything for access, you have no liability. The law explicitly protects property owners in this instance and absolves them for hunting injuries suffered on their property. However, if you do charge him - then it's a lease and you assume much liability. All of those explicit protections - are gone.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

"Legally he'll be less than 500 feet from my neighbors dwelling".... Hence he would be illegally hunting, N'est Pas?

Yes, he would be.

 

[arlow]

"Legally he'll be less than 500 feet from my neighbors dwelling".... Hence he would be illegally hunting, N'est Pas?

Depends. The law is " no hunting within 500 feet of an occupied dwelling without owners permission". If the neighbors whos dwellings are too close aer ok with him hunting inside that 500 foot setback from their dwelling and permit him to do it, then he is legal. It can be an easy sell if they are logical people and he is bow hunting from elevated treestands where all the shots are in close and shot down towards the ground. I have several properties like this that are small and I have the neighbors permission to shoot inside the 500 feet setback archery only.

 

[Rat187]

Depends. The law is " no hunting within 500 feet of an occupied dwelling without owners permission". If the neighbors whos dwellings are too close aer ok with him hunting inside that 500 foot setback from their dwelling and permit him to do it, then he is legal. It can be an easy sell if they are logical people and he is bow hunting from elevated treestands where all the shots are in close and shot down towards the ground. I have several properties like this that are small and I have the neighbors permission to shoot inside the 500 feet setback archery only.

Yes, I get it and no my neighbor didn't give permission to hunt on her property. When I get a knock on the door by this bow hunter, who got shot a big buck, I did give him permission to search on my property. I couldn't give him permission for my neighbors property. Again it all begin with a bad decision by the bowhunter to take a point blank shot that resulted in a gut shot buck. He never found the buck just a carcass three weeks later, so the animal died in agony. Eff him

 

[Mark from MA]

Yes, I get it and no my neighbor didn't give permission to hunt on her property. When I get a knock on the door by this bow hunter, who got shot a big buck, I did give him permission to search on my property. I couldn't give him permission for my neighbors property. Again it all begin with a bad decision by the bowhunter to take a point blank shot that resulted in a gut shot buck. He never found the buck just a carcass three weeks later, so the animal died in agony. Eff him

Unless the guy told you he took a shot he shouldn't have and made a bad decision, your making some assumptions. A gut shot can happen to anyone and is part of hunting. Still better than hitting it with a car IMHO.......

There is nothing wrong with point blank, or close shots. When I hunted I strived for 20 yards and in as it tends to decrease the error. I strived for relaxed feeding animals broadside only, not quartering away as recommended, to reduce deflections, and make a bigger kill zone, and increase odds that the arrow would penetrate fully, hit both lungs and not one, and not be left in a fleeing animal.

However, mistakes can happen, as there are multiple factors when the shot it released......unseen twig, animal moves, ducks or drops, you were in a weird position when shooting, etc....there are tons of bad things that can happen.

Or the guy just plain made a bad shot....which can happen to the best of us, who practice regularly and could shoot a dime under good conditions at 20 yards. No one is perfect.

Experience is a teacher.......there are shots and shot angles, I'd take in the woods, with unlimited tracking...... that I wouldn't take urban hunting.

Also knowing when to follow up on a gut shot is just as important as learning to shoot well..........most people track too early and act like Jo Jo the circus clown when doing it. The deer will generally go 100 yards or less and lay down, and stay in the same place most likely if left to die. If you track early (less than 8 hours) your probably gonna kick the deer back up and if its running it can go far. Gut shots leave little blood to track as well. And your not shooting arrows when while standing on the ground, at running deer in the middle of suburbia. Its unsafe in most conditions.

I've had to deal with a few gut shot deer by some hunting buddies, and one time my son. My rules were, as part of them hunting the properties I aquired, and as part of having to deal with a bullshit tracking job................if you know its a gut shot, or question in your mind it is...... note where you last saw deer, leave quietly, we will come back 12 hours later, no excuses, no sooner, no tracking, no going to look for the arrow....nothing. Just leave in the opposite direction the deer went.

Or in easy terms to remember...when in doubt, back out. If they did anything else other than that........they had the pleasure of looking for that deer and knocking on 18 fxcking peoples doors and bothering them, while I went back to hunting.

100% recovery rate with that method within 100 yards and usually where the person last saw the deer. Coyotes were not a problem at that time, now down there they are...doesn't matter either way.......you kick the deer up.....your odds of finding it become 50% less, and if your in suburbia, the odds of you running across some douchebag that doesn't give you access to track...becomes a lot higher.

 

[arlow]

Yup, big ignorant, arrogant assumptions loaded with unnecessary attitude. Those that have problems with "the man" usually are the ones that created said problems through their own poor actions. Time for him to stop blaming everyone else and look on the mirror........

 

[Amputee Marksman]

In Mass that's YOUR animal !!!

No it isn't. I just took the class yesterday and today. It's not yours until the tag is on it.

You need to call EPO and they will retrieve it and decide who gets it. Most likely you will end up with it but it is not given.

 

[Mark from MA]

No it isn't. I just took the class yesterday and today. It's not yours until the tag is on it.

You need to call EPO and they will retrieve it and decide who gets it. Most likely you will end up with it but it is not given.

I didn't think so either, its not cut and dry. MA is that lovely first knife in the deer thing......and people have lost deer all the time because douchebags got to them before the person that shot them did, and tagged it.

The animal is untagged on their property....especially if its legally Posted Private Property........who killed it might not be of any consequence if they want it, had a hunting license, and legally tagged it. Good luck getting it....your not.

In most cases, if legally shot, the EPO wants to give it to the hunter Im sure. But if the landowner wanted it and tagged it. NFW are you getting it, and if it was posted land and you tried to sneak on to retrieve it....all your probably getting is a warning or ticket for trespassing.

In CT....its the landowners first before its yours and I was told that specifically he legally had to offer it to the landowner before he would give it to me. Right of first refusal thing. That said, CT is a private property state and landowner tags are free.