How to identify pre-ban magazines???

[GSG]

The research I've done usually eneds up pulling up guys that have been hit with 131G? or somesuch.... which is another law in MGL that pertains to "Possession of an LCAFD without a license" which obviously is far easier to prosecute on, especially in the realm that 95% of all gun cases in MA are against people who were otherwise engaged in some criminal act- eg, the individuals being charged typically don't have an LTC of any kind.

Yeah, most cases you see that mention high caps are 269-10(m) prosecutions, which applies to anyone without an LTC. 140-131m is the AWB, which isn't well known and would be a pain to prove. By definition all AWB goods are large capacity, but not all large capacity are AWB. Like squares and rectangles.

My best guess is that AWB charges, in practice, are probably piled on in order to induce a plea bargain. Most prosecutors expect the accused's lawyers to not have a clue about MA firearms law (And they'd be right, most of the time- I honestly believe there are probably only a handful of criminal law attorneys in MA that are really competent and informed enough to handle firearms law issues in MA) so they probably feel safe in blowing smoke up their rear end by piling on an AWB charge, even if the chances of it succeeding in a full blown trial are in the "slim to none" category. It's used as a "bargaining chip" by the prosecution.

I agree in a huge way about lawyers not knowing their way around the law. I think most of them are used to working a "plea down to a fine" deals for the teenaged thug busted with a Lorcin. The issue with relying on someone who's only used to the "criminal" aspect of MA criminal law is they're only used to dealing with the blunt hammer laws in MA.

I've read caselaw in Mass. where a lawyer brilliantly defended a 4A/5A or procedural aspect of a gun case, but completely failed to pick up on huge glaring errors buried in the details of another charge. 140-131C is a great example of this, the only two pieces of caselaw on it made it all the way to the SJC; in one, the court noticed that 131C only applies to LTC holders, in the other, they completely missed it. There's also bad caselaw on things like Terry stops based on suspects young age (they only read one part of the law and assume you have to be 21 to legally posess a handgun in Mass.) or the thousands of "Poss. w/out FID" charges applied to handgun cases, which post GCA-1998 is an incorrect charge.

I wonder if it is possible to obtain transcripts from those trials to see what was actually said in the courtroom... assuming, of course, there wasn't some backroom deal, which I imagine might have been likely in the Manso case.

What's irritating is the Cape Code Times only published the narrative from the Manso police report, and not the sheets with charges, evidence log, pictures, etc. Anyone with the money could do a 66-10 request (basically the MA version of FOIA) of all the police reports and court documents for his case, probably for $30 or so altogether, depending on the various fees applied by the two courts and PD involved. It would be great to see, especially because we don't even know why his case was dropped. It could've been a nol pros, straight dismissal, CWOF, plea deal, etc. The documents lay the groundwork but still don't tell the whole story. I also doubt the guy who beat charges that could have sat him in prison for the rest of his natural life is going to want to create waves explaining the ins and outs of his case either.

The main thing these incidents show, though, is that in some locales in MA they are willing to throw baloney at a wall to attempt to "prosecute someone more".

Yup. They also show that the laws aren't applied uniformly, or even known in some jurisdictions.

Staying out of trouble to begin with (keeping your head down) seems to be the operative thing to do.

I think this is the biggest thing. Another reason to keep the scary looking guns in a case in the trunk out of sight.

 

[GJB1124]

So I read through this topic and the links that were posted along with some others. I came across a question that I think has gone unanswered.
An AR magazine with no exterior markings but has internal markings of K1 on one side and 01 on the other side.
The mag contains a black follower. The mag is silver colored metal. The floor plate is stamped:
CAL. 5.56 MM
Colt's Firearms Division
Colt Industries
Hartford, Conn. USA

Is this a pre or post-ban magazine? I know both the follower and floor plate could have been placed on a post-ban mag body.
If the "01" is the manufacturing year, the mag should have been stamped externally, correct?
I read in the links above (or links of links) that Colt has stated they do not stamp the inside of mags. Was thinking of contacting Colt myself tomorrow.

 

[1903Collector]

I don't know about Colt but either Adventurline or Parsons did stamp the inside of their mags, I have a bunch of them. If I am not mistaken the "K1" refers to the month and the "01" is indeed the year.

 

[Colt Delta Elite]

So I read through this topic and the links that were posted along with some others. I came across a question that I think has gone unanswered.
An AR magazine with no exterior markings but has internal markings of K1 on one side and 01 on the other side.
The mag contains a black follower. The mag is silver colored metal. The floor plate is stamped:
CAL. 5.56 MM
Colt's Firearms Division
Colt Industries
Hartford, Conn. USA

Is this a pre or post-ban magazine? I know both the follower and floor plate could have been placed on a post-ban mag body.
If the "01" is the manufacturing year, the mag should have been stamped externally, correct?
I read in the links above (or links of links) that Colt has stated they do not stamp the inside of mags. Was thinking of contacting Colt myself tomorrow.

The black follower and the text you stated was on the floor plate points towards 70's vintage mags. Green followers came in in later production. Look for some NY shooting forums these very mags are discussed at length. I bought a bunch of these NOS and the box they came out of from Colt was marked 1974. The guy I bought them from said the k code is the month and the other number (mine are marked 02) is the year of manufacture. As in 72' or 82' by 92 they were being stamped differently and the text on the floor plate were different. If they were 2002 they would have been marked Leo only mags as the ban was still in effect. I believe FS is selling these same mags in last email I got from them, $$$ though. Search the Ny boards just google "Preban colt mags" and your have tons of reading. Hope some of this helps.

 

[1903Collector]

If they were 2002 they would have been marked Leo only mags as the ban was still in effect

Was that a requirement of the AWB?

 

[Colt Delta Elite]

Yes it was a requirement that any mags manufactured during the federal ban had to be marked LEO/military use only. When the ban sunset so did the requirement to mark the mags.

 

[GJB1124]

The black follower and the text you stated was on the floor plate points towards 70's vintage mags. Green followers came in in later production. Look for some NY shooting forums these very mags are discussed at length. I bought a bunch of these NOS and the box they came out of from Colt was marked 1974. The guy I bought them from said the k code is the month and the other number (mine are marked 02) is the year of manufacture. As in 72' or 82' by 92 they were being stamped differently and the text on the floor plate were different. If they were 2002 they would have been marked Leo only mags as the ban was still in effect. I believe FS is selling these same mags in last email I got from them, $$$ though. Search the Ny boards just google "Preban colt mags" and your have tons of reading. Hope some of this helps.

I read a ton of posts last night on the NY boards. I still had questions which is why I posted them here.

Thanks all, for your help and info.
Edit: Didn't have time to call Colt just yet.

 

[Colt Delta Elite]

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[Sinster]

Sorry to bring back an old thread. My head hurts trying to find out how to ID post ban magazines. So what I gathered from the internet, this forum, and NYShooters forum. Is that there isn't any definite way to tell the difference between a Post and Pre ban unstamped magazine. That's it is up to the DA to prove it is or isn't a pre-ban magazine. That people can say it's a pre-ban when in all actuality they can be selling you a post ban. Some say stay away from magazine that look new and others say that just BS as you can refurb your magazine to make them look new. What it comes down to in a nutshell it's a game of chance.