How Important is a Free Float Handguard on an AR-15 Anyway? (Oh, Dear.)

NixieTube

NixieTube

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It's obvious that I'm an AR platform Newbie. I have a Stag Model 4 with a 20" heavy profile barrel and I like it a lot; it's my first AR platform rifle and I decided to go with something a little bit "retro" - but with a heavy barrel because I like the way the rifle feels (which has everything to do with how I was trained to shoot rifles.)

But I have to ask this question - because, well, I have to. I'm hoping we can have a nice, gnarly discussion with some real experience beyond mine and some real engineering and/or gunsmithing knowledge thrown in, so here goes:

HOW IMPORTANT IS A FREE-FLOATING HANDGUARD ON AN AR-15 RIFLE?

Subsidiary questions:

1) Why?
2) If free floating handguards were so important, why didn't Armalite/Colt and so many others manufacture them that way from the beginning?
3) If free floating handguards are so important, does anyone have credible measurement data to suggest what the "improvement" is?
4) Is it just a matter of not having the *sling* attached to the barrel or is it that front point of contact?
5) If free floating handguards are so important, does the barrel profile matter too?
6) Which is more important to the average shooter - a free floating handguard or ammunition that peforms better, shot after shot?
7) Has anyone ever really documented an improvement in accuracy using the same gun with and without a free floating handguard?

I'll stop at 7 because I don't want to cause a bigger fight than it's worth ;). Also my avatar pic. stops at 7. However, I would be interested to know - and I guess the question boils down to:

"Free Floating Handguards - Important Accessory or Tacticool Froufrou?"

I appreciate any civilized discussion on this matter possible, because I don't know the answers. Please educate me and please try to stay on-topic.
 
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NixieTube said:
It's obvious that I'm an AR platform Newbie. I have a Stag Model 4 with a 20" heavy profile barrel and I like it a lot; it's my first AR platform rifle and I decided to go with something a little bit "retro" - but with a heavy barrel because I like the way the rifle feels (which has everything to do with how I was trained to shoot rifles.)

But I have to ask this question - because, well, I have to. I'm hoping we can have a nice, gnarly discussion with some real experience beyond mine and some real engineering and/or gunsmithing knowledge thrown in, so here goes:

HOW IMPORTANT IS A FREE-FLOATING HANDGUARD ON AN AR-15 RIFLE?

Subsidiary questions:

1) Why?
2) If free floating handguards were so important, why didn't Armalite/Colt and so many others manufacture them that way from the beginning?
3) If free floating handguards are so important, does anyone have credible measurement data to suggest what the "improvement" is?
4) Is it just a matter of not having the *sling* attached to the barrel or is it that front point of contact?
5) If free floating handguards are so important, does the barrel profile matter too?
6) Which is more important to the average shooter - a free floating handguard or ammunition that peforms better, shot after shot?
7) Has anyone ever really documented an improvement in accuracy using the same gun with and without a free floating handguard?

I'll stop at 7 because I don't want to cause a bigger fight than it's worth ;). However, I would be interested to know - and I guess the question boils down to:

"Free Floating Handguards - Important Accessory or Mall Ninja Froufrou?"

I appreciate any civilized discussion on this matter possible, because I don't know the answers. Please educate me and please try to stay on-topic.
Click to expand...
I think for range use at meets its the most consistently accurate platform. For ruggedness in the field , not so much.
 
1) Why? One reason I like them for is they allow for a longer handgaurd on shorter barrels. ie a 10" tube on a 11.5" barrel.

2) If free floating handguards were so important, why didn't Armalite/Colt and so many others manufacture them that way from the beginning? Technology advances.

3) If free floating handguards are so important, does anyone have credible measurement data to suggest what the "improvement" is? I don't care what someone else thinks will make an improvement, if it works for me, I use it.

4) Is it just a matter of not having the *sling* attached to the barrel or is it that front point of contact? It is about taking as much contact with the barrel out of the equation. Adding things like lights and lasers if you are into that is also easier.

5) If free floating handguards are so important, does the barrel profile matter too? I don't like boat anchors for rifles, so barrel profile matters a little to me.

6) Which is more important to the average shooter - a free floating handguard or ammunition that peforms better, shot after shot? Average shooter? Actually shooting their rifle instead of talking about it on the internet.

7) Has anyone ever really documented an improvement in accuracy using the same gun with and without a free floating handguard? IDK, but I know the highpower guys use a sneeky free float system that uses standard handgaurds, if that means anything to you.
 
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#2 cost is the main reason when your shooting man size targets it's not worth it. For the mill.
Mill spec means cheapest bidder.


Barrel length means less then profile . Length allows all the powder to be burnt and helps with fps after a length it starts to slow the round down .
Profiles depends on the material .stiffness of the (profile) barrel helps with groups more then any thing . But some metals you can have a thinner profile then other metals .


Every high end rifle the barrel is free floated.
 
I don't have one. Never saw one in person but have seen pics. For me the most important part of the free float hand-guard is that it makes the rifle look totally cool. So for me it would aesthetics. If it has performance benefits even better. But they are totally cool looking.
 
robjax said:
I don't have one. Never saw one in person but have seen pics. For me the most important part of the free float hand-guard is that it makes the rifle look totally cool. So for me it would aesthetics. If it has performance benefits even better. But they are totally cool looking.
Click to expand...

Basically any thing touching the barrel effects it . When you have nothing touch it the barrel is more predictable .
Kinda like a cold bore shot vs the 10th.
But wood or plastic changes little do to temp. So just the weather could effect your point of aim . Also you holding at one end vs the other end of the hand guard can effect it also.
Read up on barrel harmonics .
 
unless you are shooting high power matches where accuracy is extremely important to you, it wont make much of a difference. with that said i have a free float rail. why? why the **** not??
 
I can tell you from my own experience.
if you use a sling and use it tight you will pull your shots vs the free float tube.

I converted my A2 rifle with match barrel to a free float "varmint " style rifle.
with my reloads when in mil spec A2 configuration I was getting sub 2 moa groups
Now it will shoot 1moa pretty consistantly. That's from the bench using a rifle rest.
I'm 3 moa shooter on my best days...

I don't think there will be a really measurable difference if your just buying a mil spec rifle and tossing the cheapest ammo you can muster through it. skills aside good bullets go a long way in gains in the 223 rem
 
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Barrel harmonics play a part in location of original handguards would be my guess. Plus less apt to burn yourself in the jungle setting where they played.
Just a wag on my part.
One of my ARs has a free floating fluted barrel and the sling mounts are on the handguard and A2 stock. Shoots lights out.
 
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As for why no freefloat on the m16/A1/A2/A4 well US military just has to be "good enough" to what ever "mil -Spec " standards are applied. mil spec Nato ammo doesn't have a high standard of accuracy. comes out to about 4moa and a velocity spec. along with penatration specs.
Now much like the M1 garand I could not find a actual military standard accuracy test for a NEW rifle. I found specs for rifles that go through over haul.
Look at the requirements for mil spec marksmenship to qualify. A mil spec rifle and ammo capability is good enough to qualify its up to the shooter to deliver.
 
OP: It really depends on what you want to use your AR for.

Plinking - Free float not necessay.
100 yard or less shooting - nice but not necessary.
Tacticool close quarter combat - necessary on many levels [smile] to put all those lights, lasers, bipods, and grips on the rifle.

ARs are the Tinker Toys of guns. The platform is so flexible that you can buy/build a rifle that fits your desired use for it. Simple, tactical, or long-range. Free floats are just one of the options. You decide what's right for you. [Wink]

Sent from the Warlock Command Center (in my basement).
 
Thanks for everyone's comments so far, I can see that free-floating handguards are well-regarded by the majority here, and I can definitely understand the points about the extra length and space for reach and grip, even on a shorter barreled gun. I like having the full "rifle length" handguard on my Model 4 and it was a factor in my purchase (in addition to the sight radius and the heavier barrel itself).

One thing I was theoretically concerned about is that most free-floating handguards seem to attach directly to the front of the receiver and my thought was: "OK, now you've solved the problem of contacting and/or exerting pressure directly on the barrel but you're instead transmitting that force to the front end of the upper receiver -- worse or better?" I guess what people are saying is that the receiver can take it and the benefit of not torquing the barrel is more important.

Then adding the huge plethora of options, etc., etc. ... OK, you're convincing me.
 
NixieTube said:
Thanks for everyone's comments so far, I can see that free-floating handguards are well-regarded by the majority here, and I can definitely understand the points about the extra length and space for reach and grip, even on a shorter barreled gun. I like having the full "rifle length" handguard on my Model 4 and it was a factor in my purchase (in addition to the sight radius and the heavier barrel itself).

One thing I was theoretically concerned about is that most free-floating handguards seem to attach directly to the front of the receiver and my thought was: "OK, now you've solved the problem of contacting and/or exerting pressure directly on the barrel but you're instead transmitting that force to the front end of the upper receiver -- worse or better?" I guess what people are saying is that the receiver can take it and the benefit of not torquing the barrel is more important.

Then adding the huge plethora of options, etc., etc. ... OK, you're convincing me.
Click to expand...

All of the free floats I have seen and installed have attached to the GI barrel nut, or come with some kind of proprietary/integrated barrel nut.

I have both free floats and a traditional handguards (MOE), different tools for different applications.
 
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NixieTube said:
Thanks for everyone's comments so far, I can see that free-floating handguards are well-regarded by the majority here, and I can definitely understand the points about the extra length and space for reach and grip, even on a shorter barreled gun. I like having the full "rifle length" handguard on my Model 4 and it was a factor in my purchase (in addition to the sight radius and the heavier barrel itself).

One thing I was theoretically concerned about is that most free-floating handguards seem to attach directly to the front of the receiver and my thought was: "OK, now you've solved the problem of contacting and/or exerting pressure directly on the barrel but you're instead transmitting that force to the front end of the upper receiver -- worse or better?" I guess what people are saying is that the receiver can take it and the benefit of not torquing the barrel is more important.

Then adding the huge plethora of options, etc., etc. ... OK, you're convincing me.
Click to expand...

Although a small note, one to consider for those in MA or where muzzle devices need to be pinned and welded. If you buy a barrel with a non threaded "target" crown you can play around with your opptions of hand guards,tubes,sights,rails, gas blocks ectect with out the worry of removing a pinned and welded MD or the hazzle of getting a MD rewelded/pinned. Just some opptions to consider.
 
mac1911 said:
Although a small note, one to consider for those in MA or where muzzle devices need to be pinned and welded. If you buy a barrel with a non threaded "target" crown you can play around with your opptions of hand guards,tubes,sights,rails, gas blocks ectect with out the worry of removing a pinned and welded MD or the hazzle of getting a MD rewelded/pinned. Just some opptions to consider.
Click to expand...


This is is really good advice, pinned and welded muzzle are a PITA if you like to change things up.
 
71montess said:
This is is really good advice, pinned and welded muzzle are a PITA if you like to change things up.
Click to expand...

Yes it is a good point and I'm glad someone mentioned it. As much as I like the long/heavy barrel on the Model 4, because of MA regulations my muzzle brake is pinned on (I don't know about welded). The pin is very prominent and visible on the bottom of the barrel, and I know that removing the brake is going to require some real effort. So if I want to switch to a free-floating handguard by removing the A2 front sight and going to a lower profile gas block it's going to take some effort.

That's OK. I *did* think about that when I bought the gun. I decided to go with it anyway and put some rounds down range before I started to "accessorize" the rifle. The only thing I've done to it are to add a sling and an aluminum charging handle, the rest is stock. Again, it's because I was trained to shoot with the gun as it comes, with iron sights, before "tricking it out." I don't have an optic on the gun yet, I'm using the stock Stag A2 front and switchable peep rear sights that come attached to the removable carry handle, and I probably will until I've gotten as good as I can get with the iron sights first.

I started this thread because of my sincere interest in modifications I might perform in the future. I really like my Model 4 as it is from the factory (it's a little heavy for an AR I guess, but for me the offhand hold is rock solid, esp. with a sling) but I know that I'll tinker with anything I buy, eventually :) so I wanted to hear some rationale that I can defend to my checkbook.
 
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NixieTube said:
Yes it is a good point and I'm glad someone mentioned it. As much as I like the long/heavy barrel on the Model 4, because of MA regulations my muzzle brake is pinned on (I don't know about welded). The pin is very prominent and visible on the bottom of the barrel, and I know that removing the brake is going to require some real effort. So if I want to switch to a free-floating handguard by removing the A2 front sight and going to a lower profile gas block it's going to take some effort.

That's OK. I *did* think about that when I bought the gun. I decided to go with it anyway and put some rounds down range before I started to "accessorize" the rifle. The only thing I've done to it are to add a sling and an aluminum charging handle, the rest is stock. Again, it's because I was trained to shoot with the gun as it comes, with iron sights, before "tricking it out." I don't have an optic on the gun yet, I'm using the stock Stag A2 front and switchable peep rear sights that come attached to the removable carry handle, and I probably will until I've gotten as good as I can get with the iron sights first.

I started this thread because of my sincere interest in modifications I might perform in the future. I really like my Model 4 as it is from the factory but I know that I'll tinker with anything I buy, eventually :) so I wanted to hear some rationale that I can defend to my checkbook.
Click to expand...

with current market prices it might be less money and hassle to buy another upper
or just remove the current barrel assembly and build off your upper reciever with new barrel (maybe one suited for heavier bullets) with no MD? and free at will to add any thing to that barrel...
lets just say you want to install a NM style free float. 100$ or so plus you destroy a 30$ brake, then another brake to purchase ( mindful that brakes are not allowed in cmp/nra service rifle) plus 40-90$ for pin and weld ......travel time, gas ectect 200$ plus into the rifle.
also think of this.
see how the Nato barrel groups with assorted ammo. If its shooting 3moa with good ammo is a free float going to really help? not likely.
here is my little test from yesterday with my new "varmint" build. built of a match grade service rifle barrel.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-A-quick-comparison-of-different-bullets-ammo. all 28 shots where fired slow fire style
I like to test my rifles under shooting conditions. my last group after the three tested was factory match ammo which did 1.18 inch with 8 shots. heavy rain destroyed the paper target so no pics.
 
mac1911 said:
Although a small note, one to consider for those in MA or where muzzle devices need to be pinned and welded. If you buy a barrel with a non threaded "target" crown you can play around with your opptions of hand guards,tubes,sights,rails, gas blocks ectect with out the worry of removing a pinned and welded MD or the hazzle of getting a MD rewelded/pinned. Just some opptions to consider.
Click to expand...

Or just don't care .
 
warwickben said:
Or just don't care .
Click to expand...

yes you can do this that and not care. Up to you I guess. As much as I don't like the laws I hate to get hung up in mass if for what ever reason they discover your un pinned muzzle device.
Also with a response with why care you could just cut up your permit and say FU to the entire system. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see that happening?
 
mac1911 said:
yes you can do this that and not care. Up to you I guess. As much as I don't like the laws I hate to get hung up in mass if for what ever reason they discover your un pinned muzzle device.
Also with a response with why care you could just cut up your permit and say FU to the entire system. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see that happening?
Click to expand...

Build a rifle test it out etc . Once you got it the way you like pin the brake .
Unless you did some thing really bad a cop not going to try to remove your brake .

Have friends in nh? Leave upper with then till you figure out what you really want .
 
warwickben said:
Build a rifle test it out etc . Once you got it the way you like pin the brake .
Unless you did some thing really bad a cop not going to try to remove your brake .

Have friends in nh? Leave upper with then till you figure out what you really want .
Click to expand...

I did nothing wrong. I was part of an investigation my guns where siezed as evidence. I had to argue the pre ban post ban issues on a few guns they where trying not to return. I also got no where with the marks they left on my muzzle device when they tried to remove it.
short story my brother tried to shoot someone then shot himself. I had some of his guns my name came up in the investigation ...........and it ran its course. I ended. up with all of my guns my fathers and my brothers... So yes you can not care... ohh and also a search warrent for my mags and "storage" that was fun but was handled well.
investorgator and 2 uniformed officers. checked my shit and left.
 
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mac1911 said:
I did nothing wrong. I was part of an investigation my guns where siezed as evidence. I had to argue the pre ban post ban issues on a few guns they where trying not to return. I also got no where with the marks they left on my muzzle device when they tried to remove it.
short story my brother tried to shoot someone then shot himself. I had some of his guns my name came up in the investigation ...........and it ran its course. I ended. up with all of my guns my fathers and my brothers... So yes you can not care... ohh and also a search warrent for my mags and "storage" that was fun but was handled well.
investorgator and 2 uniformed officers. checked my shit and left.
Click to expand...

Sorry for what happen .
But even you have to admit 99% of the time bringing a upper to a range with a few brakes to test out you really don't have to worry .
Keeping it long term is a different story .
 
warwickben said:
Sorry for what happen .
But even you have to admit 99% of the time bringing a upper to a range with a few brakes to test out you really don't have to worry .
Keeping it long term is a different story .
Click to expand...
well it all comes down to personal choice. I say **** the brake for 98% of the shooters I end up shooting next to it is nothing more than a piece of gun bling
I sold all my ARs when things got stupid. kept only one with a brake and its fabricated in such a way that the percussion will move your hat when you shoot.
after shooting my non brake rifles I have come to like them better.
I still think a target crown non threaded barrel is the way to go if you might be playing around with different set ups.
 
By all means help stimulate the economy by buying all the toys you can. Real world says if you just screwing around at 100 yds with a diet of commercial brass and steel ammo it isn't going to make any difference. If your trying to shoot 300yds+ with handloaded ammo tuned to your gun than free float is the way to go. Besides it looks more bad ass than the original triangle handguards.
Dave
 
IMO barrel harmonics and stiffness are more important than whether its free floated or not.
not my original idea....people much smarter than me have explained the harmonics issue and I drink their coolaid.
 

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