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Home Defense and CT Invasion/Burglary

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I've serached a bit on the Gun Laws forum and I can't find a definitive post that speaks to what home defense situations warrant a use of deadly force.

My understanding, which could be incorrect is that retreat is not required in one's home in MA but one must fear grave bodily harm or death (to oneself or a loved one) by the assailant.

I've also seen comments about how citizens of MA have been/likely would be prosecuted for using a handgun in these types of situations. It has been implied (or maybe I just interpreted) that there is a pretty high bar for fearing grave bodily harm or death - i.e. one needs to see an assailant with a weapon or something of that nature. Simply shooting someone because they have illegally entered your house does not seem to cut it.

In light of what seems to have been a burglary gone wrong in CT (given the lack of voilence in the perps' past it seems to have been a crime of opportunity as opposed to premeditated rape/murder) at what point would it be reasonable to fear for one's life and use requisite force to stop the threat?

My approach would be thus: I hear any type of noise downstairs (I hope I wake up before they get upstairs and bludgeon me) I have my wife call 911 while I turn on the stairwell lights and hold the upstairs landing, possibly shouting "I've called 911, take what you want and get out but if you place a foot on these steps I will kill you as I have a gun." I have no interest in heading downstairs to investigate with a loaded gun (although there are scenarios where this may be required - how loud a crash translates into a 911 call?)

The idea being irrespective of what the intruder is carrying, etc. if he tries to mount the stairwell I can only assume that he means me and my family grave bodily harm even if he is unarmed so I would shoot (repeatedly) to stop him from advancing.

Any thoughts on whether that type of scenario would cut the mustard legally?
 
When I announce that I've called 911, that the police are on the way, and that I'm armed and ready, the fact that anybody would decide to hang around and come at me is going to create a pretty reasonable presumption that they're not just there for some spare change. Also, there's the fact that they are unlikely to be around to argue to the contrary. Regardless, faced with such a situation, any possible legal consequences would fall into the category of minor distractions in my decision making process.

Ken
 
My approach would be thus: I hear any type of noise downstairs (I hope I wake up before they get upstairs and bludgeon me) I have my wife call 911 while I turn on the stairwell lights and hold the upstairs landing, possibly shouting "I've called 911, take what you want and get out but if you place a foot on these steps I will kill you as I have a gun." I have no interest in heading downstairs to investigate with a loaded gun (although there are scenarios where this may be required - how loud a crash translates into a 911 call?)
Say instead "I will shoot" as opposed to "I will kill you".
 
When I announce that I've called 911, that the police are on the way, and that I'm armed and ready, the fact that anybody would decide to hang around and come at me is going to create a pretty reasonable presumption that they're not just there for some spare change. Also, there's the fact that they are unlikely to be around to argue to the contrary. Regardless, faced with such a situation, any possible legal consequences would fall into the category of minor distractions in my decision making process.

Ken

+1

I've noticed a disturbing trend here that many guys incessantly ponder the legal nuances of shooting to stop someone who breaks into your house at a time when anyone would reasonably expect you and your family to be there.

I hate to sound harsh, but some of you all should just really stop pretending you will use firearms to defend yourselves. All some of you obsess about is the legal repercussions of what you do to defend your loved ones and yourselves. And guess what is the most likely thing you will do at the moment of truth? That's right. Yoiu will ponder what the law will do to you if you shoot.

There is no state that I know of where retreat from your own home is required. And the legal standard everywhere I know is a REASONABLE BELIEF that one or loved ones is in danger of death or severe bodily harm. You do not have to be certain of it. And your actions will be judged by what a reasonable person would believe IN YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES. Not the next day or with hindsight.

I have already decided what I will do.

I live in a single story house. That means I have precious little time to asses and react. Run across the little hall separating my daughter from me. Grab her and take her back to the master bedroom. Set up in the bedroom aisle which creates a death funnel for any intruder. Warn loudly that I am armed and to best get the f*** out. Any advance in my direction will be met with deadly force. Period.

If the intrusion happens to be directly into one of the bedrooms, there will be no warning. Just gunfire.
 
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My approach would be thus: I hear any type of noise downstairs (I hope I wake up before they get upstairs and bludgeon me) I have my wife call 911 while I turn on the stairwell lights and hold the upstairs landing, possibly shouting "I've called 911, take what you want and get out but if you place a foot on these steps I will kill you as I have a gun."?

Say instead "I will shoot" as opposed to "I will kill you".

I'm not having any conversations and I sure ain't gonna do any yelling. (Reveal my location.) Anybody I don't recognize shows themselves on the stairs and I'll shoot till the slide locks. I aint clearing any rooms either, that's what the cops are for. If the goblins woke me up at 0 Dark Thirty they ain't here selling bibles.

Note in addition to personal sidearm have;

1. Charged Cellphone
2. Front door key attached to a chemical lightsticks.
3. Back door key attached to a different color lightstick.

When the cavlery shows up, snap lightsticks & toss out the window. You've already told 911 the red light stick is the front door & the yellow is for the rear. (Not my actual color code.)

That way the cops don't have to kick in your door.

I will defend the safety of my family. Have a plan and then work your plan when the time comes.
 
So how do you know that the person coming up the stairs whom you don't recognize isn't one of the cops clearing the house? I too use the light sticks for my toss keys, and am happy to sit still and let the police clear my house for me, but I don't shoot at people just because I don't recognize them. That's a good way to lose everything to the attorneys trying to keep you out of jail. I'll announce my location and what I'll do to anybody who approaches without being identified and cleared, just so there can be no misunderstandings. I won't see anybody on my stairs, anyway, because I'm behind my closed bedroom door; opening that door without identifying yourself by name (and that name matching the one the 911 operator told me when I asked) will most likely get you stone dead.

Ken
 
So how do you know that the person coming up the stairs whom you don't recognize isn't one of the cops clearing the house?
Ken

I doubt if the BG's will be in uniform. Besides I live in a very small town and if I don't know the officers personally I'll at least recognize them.

One of the advantages of rural life.

I or my wife would remain on the phone with 911 until an officer was in the house, 911 will tell you when they are about to enter, and as always rule No. 4 applies
 
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So how do you know that the person coming up the stairs whom you don't recognize isn't one of the cops clearing the house? I too use the light sticks for my toss keys, and am happy to sit still and let the police clear my house for me, but I don't shoot at people just because I don't recognize them. That's a good way to lose everything to the attorneys trying to keep you out of jail. I'll announce my location and what I'll do to anybody who approaches without being identified and cleared, just so there can be no misunderstandings. I won't see anybody on my stairs, anyway, because I'm behind my closed bedroom door; opening that door without identifying yourself by name (and that name matching the one the 911 operator told me when I asked) will most likely get you stone dead.

Ken

+1 - Consider me educated by the school of Ken
 
Do any of you own pets? THERE'S the reason that you may be clearing your house/apartment, or walking around your house with your firearm.

I've got two cats, and I don't know how many times I've checked out noises coming from downstairs, armed. It's always been (and I pray that it always will be) the cats knocking something over - but my gun does me no good in the dresser properly locked up that one time it isn't the $#%#$ cat. There is also no way, based on my experience, that I could call 911 every time I hear a noise (I guess after the 3rd time in one week, I may either get ignored, or become known as the nuisance).

This was before the alarm, mind you. Now, I go back to sleep when I hear the thunk without an associated beeping from the alarm (which, of course I never hope to hear) - but before the alarm, I always checked things out.

VOICES, on the other hand - would have me set up my static defenses upstairs and call for help - but just a thud, I usually check that out myself.
 
I was just talking to a coworker in our CT office, and she tells me that pump shotguns are going out the doors of gun shops there at a record pace... since it takes a month or longer to get a carry permit there, which is what you need to get a handgun. Apparently folks down in CT are well and truly spooked...
 
I was just talking to a coworker in our CT office, and she tells me that pump shotguns are going out the doors of gun shops there at a record pace... since it takes a month or longer to get a carry permit there, which is what you need to get a handgun. Apparently folks down in CT are well and truly spooked...

Good. Maybe the fools will realize that gun control is not what keeps society safe.
 
So the red light stick is the back door and yellow is the front?

Geez, that was easy to figure out.

duh.gif
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Anyone know if the MD is going to start carrying?

BTW, I'm a big fan of X10 lighting systems. This technology allows you to control lights, appliances and other electrical devices from remote controllers using the power lines. In my home, I have 14 different lights on this system, and can turn all of them on at once using a single button. If I hear anything unusual around my home, I'm going to light up the place like MCI Cedar Junction!
 
When I announce that I've called 911, that the police are on the way, and that I'm armed and ready, the fact that anybody would decide to hang around and come at me is going to create a pretty reasonable presumption that they're not just there for some spare change. Also, there's the fact that they are unlikely to be around to argue to the contrary. Regardless, faced with such a situation, any possible legal consequences would fall into the category of minor distractions in my decision making process.

Ken

If just to resolve any minute lingering immunity, try one round into the beam halfway up the stairs, after the fellow mounts the first step. If he takes the next one, well . . . .
 
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0052.htm


OLR Research Report
January 17, 2007

2007-R-0052

CASTLE DOCTRINE AND SELF-DEFENSE

By: Christopher Reinhart, Senior Attorney

You asked about the “castle doctrine,” how it acquired its name, how many states have adopted bills on it, and any information about its effect in states that have adopted it.

SUMMARY

Generally, the “castle doctrine” provides that someone attacked in his home can use reasonable force, which can include ly force, to protect his or another's life without any duty to retreat from the attacker. It is defined differently in different states. The name appears to have its origin in the English common law rules protecting a person's home and the phrase “one's home is one's castle. ”

In recent years, a number of states have adopted or considered bills referred to as “castle doctrine” bills. These bills expand the circumstances where a person can use self-defense without retreating and contain other provisions, such as immunity for someone who legally uses force in self-defense. A Washington Post article states that the Florida bill was given the name the “castle doctrine” by Florida lobbyist Marion P. Hammer, a former National Rifle Association president (“Florida Gun Law to Expand Leeway for Self-Defense,” Washington Post, April 26, 2005). These bills have also been called “stand your ground” bills.

We found 15 states that adopted a “castle doctrine” bill in the last two years. These states are: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and South Dakota. A number of other states considered bills on this topic. In New Hampshire, the legislature passed a “castle doctrine” bill but the governor vetoed it.

These “castle doctrine” bills contain a number of different provisions and the states vary in which provisions they adopted. Some of these expanded the circumstances where force could be used in self-defense without a duty to retreat, some adopted provisions on criminal or civil immunity for legally using force in self-defense, and some contained all of these provisions.

We could not find any studies on the impact of these laws. A June 11, 2006 Orlando Sentinel article stated that it was too early to see the impact of Florida's new law, which took effect October 1, 2005, and there were no statewide statistics on the number of self-defense claims before or after that date. The newspaper found 13 people who used self-defense in central Florida over five months (resulting in six s and four people wounded). In the investigation of the 13 people who used self-defense, three were charged with a crime, five cleared, and the others were still under review. The newspaper stated that police and prosecutors handled investigations of these cases in a range of ways. A copy of this article is attached (“Cases Involving the New ly Force Law are Handled in a Broad Range of Ways,” Orlando Sentinel, June 11, 2006).

The sections below describe provisions in the “castle doctrine” bills and Connecticut's laws on self-defense.

“CASTLE DOCTRINE” BILLS

We found 15 states that adopted a “castle doctrine” bill in the last two years. Some of these expanded the circumstances where force could be used in self-defense without a duty to retreat, some adopted provisions on criminal or civil immunity for legally using force in self-defense, and some contained all of these provisions. In general, the bills contained at least one of the following provisions.

1. They remove the duty to retreat from an aggressor using force or ly force under certain circumstances. The states vary in how broadly this applies. For example, Alaska expands the types of premises where a person does not have a duty to retreat when using force in defense of self to include any place the person resides, a place where he is a guest, and his workplace. The Alaska law also applies to protecting a child or member of the person's household, regardless of location.

2. Kansas removes the duty to retreat from its use of force statutes and adds a general statement that a person not engaged in illegal activity who is attacked in a place where he has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his ground and meet force with force.

3. Some states add a legal presumption about when a person is justified in using force against intruders. For example, Florida added a presumption that a person using force had a reasonable fear of or serious injury to himself or another if (a) the person against whom he used force was illegally and forcefully entering a dwelling or occupied vehicle, was in the process of doing so, or removed or was attempting to remove a person against his will and (b) the person using force knew or had reason to believe this was occurring. These presumptions, which vary by state, have exceptions and do not apply under specified circumstances, such as when (a) the person force is used against had a right to be in the dwelling or was a lawful resident, (b) the person using force was engaged in illegal activity, or (c) the person force is used against is a law enforcement officer performing his duties who identified himself or the person using force knew or should have known the person was an officer.

4. Some states, such as Florida, include a presumption that a person who illegally or forcefully enters or attempts to enter a dwelling or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with intent to commit an illegal act involving force or .

5. Many of the bills provide immunity from criminal prosecution for a person who legally uses force or ly force. This can apply to arrest, detention in custody, charging, and prosecuting. Some also specify that law enforcement is authorized to use standard procedures to investigate but cannot arrest the person unless there is probable cause that the use of force was unlawful.

6. Many also provide immunity from civil actions for a person who is justified in using force or ly physical force. They require a court to award reasonable attorney's fees, costs, compensation for lost income, and expenses if the court finds that the person acted lawfully and is immune from prosecution.

CONNECTICUT LAW

Under Connecticut law, a person may use physical force (self defense): to protect himself or a third person, his home or office, or his property; to make an arrest or prevent an escape; or to perform certain duties (for example, a corrections officer may use force to maintain order and discipline, a teacher to protect a minor, and a parent to discipline a child). A person cannot use physical force to resist arrest by a reasonably identifiable peace officer, whether the arrest is legal or not (CGS § 53a-23).

Self defense or justification is a defense in any prosecution (CGS § 53a-16). The person claiming justification has the initial burden of producing sufficient evidence to assert self-defense. When raised as a defense at a trial, the state has the burden of disproving self defense beyond a reasonable doubt (CGS § 53a-12).

Physical Force in Defense of Person

A person is justified in using reasonable physical force on another person to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of physical force. The defender may use the degree of force he reasonably believes is necessary to defend himself or a third person. But ly physical force cannot be used unless the actor reasonably believes that the attacker is using or about to use ly physical force or inflicting or about to inflict great bodily harm.

Additionally, a person is not justified in using ly physical force if he knows he can avoid doing so with complete safety by:
1. retreating, except from his home or office in cases where he was not the initial aggressor or except in cases where he a peace officer, special policeman, or a private individual assisting a peace officer or special policeman at the officer's directions regarding an arrest or preventing an escape;

2. surrendering possession to property the aggressor claims to own; or

3. obeying a demand that he not take an action he is not otherwise required to take.
 
Part 2


Lastly, a person is not justified in using physical force when (1) with intent to cause physical injury or to another person, he provokes the person to use physical force, (2) use of such force was the product of a combat by agreement not specifically authorized by law, or (3) he is the initial aggressor (unless he withdraws from the encounter, effectively communicates this intent to the other person, and the other person continues to or threatens to use physical force) (CGS § 53a-19).

Physical Force in Defense of Premises

A person who possesses or controls property or has a license or privilege to be in or on it is justified in using reasonable physical force when and to the extent he reasonably believes it to be necessary to stop another from trespassing or attempting to trespass in or upon it. The owner can use ly physical force only (1) to defend a person as described above, (2) when he reasonably believes it is necessary to prevent the trespasser from attempting to commit arson or any violent crime, or (3) to the extent he reasonably believes it is necessary to stop someone from forcibly entering his home or workplace (and for the sole purpose of stopping the intruder) (CGS § 53a-20).

Physical Force in Defense of Property

A person is justified in using reasonable physical force when and to the extent he reasonably believes it necessary to (1) prevent attempted larceny or criminal mischief involving property or (2) regain property that he reasonably believes was stolen shortly before.

When defending property, ly force may be used only when it is necessary to defend a person from the use or imminent use of ly physical force or infliction or imminent infliction of great bodily harm as described above (CGS § 53a-21).

Supreme Court Decision on Self Defense

In 1984, the Connecticut Supreme Court articulated the test for determining the degree of force warranted in a given case. Whether or not a person was justified in using force to protect his person or property is a question of fact that focuses on what the person asserting the defense reasonably believed under the circumstances (State v. DeJesus, 194 Conn. 376, 389 (1984)). The test for the degree of force in self-defense is a subjective-objective one. The jury must view the situation from the defendant's perspective; this is the subjective component. The jury must then decide whether the defendant's belief was reasonable (DeJesus at 389 n. 13).
 
Step 1: Have alarm with panic button, if it has not already gone off.
- If alarm company calls, wife will take call.

Step 2: Retreive Firearm while wife gets kids from their room to ours.

Step 3: Have a fair sized dog that is protective of the home/family
- My Boxer fits both.

Step 4: Keep Dog at top of stair with me, lights out, flashlight in hand and 9mm in other.

Step 5: Pitty the poor bastard that comes into my sights and is not wearing a police uniform.
 
Step 1: Have alarm with panic button, if it has not already gone off.
- If alarm company calls, wife will take call.

Step 2: Retreive Firearm while wife gets kids from their room to ours.

Step 3: Have a fair sized dog that is protective of the home/family
- My Boxer fits both.

Step 4: Keep Dog at top of stair with me, lights out, flashlight in hand and 9mm in other.

Step 5: Pitty the poor bastard that comes into my sights and is not wearing a police uniform.

One ?. What happens if your kid invites a buddy home who is drunk. The friend comes to the stairs, and you blow him up. Not a good situation. If he's armed, then fine. If he's not, I'd think about other responses.
 
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