holographic optics confusion...help!!

[Ryan9896]

tried to search this topic, didn't find a clear answer, so here it goes!!

what are the advantages/disadvantages of a holographic sight system versus a 1x scope sight system?? i already have a 3-9x42mm scope for my AR for 75yds+, but i would like to also have a tactical close range type of optic as well.


what is the difference between a holographic sight and a reflex sight??


also, i see some people have optics installed and also have front/rear fixed sights. are there some optics that work in conjunction with fixed sights for close range quick acquisition shooting?? my budget is about $200, so any suggestions would be great. i did get some ideas from previous threads as far as recommendations in that price range, but more couldn't hurt i guess. thanks in advance for the help??

 

[newportri]

The advantages of a holographic optic is that it's very quick to aquire the sight picture. You don't need to lign up a front and rear sight, or look perfectly straight through it like with a scope. I am right handed, but slightly left eye dominant and I find it a lot quicker to aim with a holographic. You just look at the target and the holographic will appear on/around your target.

One disadvantage with a holographic (not as much as with red dot) is that the dot takes up too much of the target if you are aiming at something a long distance. However, holographic sights are meant to be used mostly for CQB.

Since these sights are electronic, there is always a chance they will fail so many also use (flip-up) Back Up Iron Sights (BUIS) that you can use if your holographic fails.

 

[lupis42]

One big difference between the higher end holo-sights and red-dots is the reticle. Specifically, an Eotech has a 65 MOA ring for fast, close in shooting, and a small, 1MOA dot for more precise shooting. Most red dots have one larger (2-8MOA) dot.

 

[PaulD]

EOTechs (which are the only truly holographic sight that I know of) use some optical trickery to project the reticle at optical infinity. This means that you have no parallax issues and if you don't have your eye right in line with the target and sight. In other words, if you move your head around, as long as you can still see the reticle, that reticle is on the target. Regular red dot sights don't do that.

This also means that acquiring your target with an EOTech is very fast and easy. As for the dot taking up too much of the target, they make a version that only has a 1 MOA dot, no donut.

 

[newportri]

My holographic is made by Bushnell and the internals were supposedly made by the same company that made them for EOTech. However, it didn't have the rugged housing so you probably won't see it on a military rifle and I cannot use it with night vision. However, for what I use it for it was good enough, and I saved a couple of hundred bucks from what I remember.
I don't think Bushnell makes them any more. You will not find an EOTech for under $200, so you might look at something else than a holographic if that's your budget.

 

[Ryan9896]

so is a reflex sight that much worse than holographic?? and how bad are the EOTech replicas, i see those all over the place. some reviews are good, some reviews are bad....i also feel that reviews are very circumstancial so i don't always believe all of them to be 100% accurate. you never really know who is reviewing the item.

 

[atmay]

EOTechs are supposed to be 100% parralax free. Most red dots are like 95% parallax free....and even then its not much of a problem.

 

[PaulD]

so is a reflex sight that much worse than holographic?? and how bad are the EOTech replicas, i see those all over the place. some reviews are good, some reviews are bad....i also feel that reviews are very circumstancial so i don't always believe all of them to be 100% accurate. you never really know who is reviewing the item.

To my knowledge, none of the replicas are truly holographic sights. They're all reflex type red dots (which means) that are in a housing that resembles an EOTech.

 

[lupis42]

To my knowledge, none of the replicas are truly holographic sights. They're all reflex type red dots (which means) that are in a housing that resembles an EOTech.

I've also never seen another Holosight. There are a lot of red-dot type sights out there with an Eotech-style reticle, but they're typically much crappier than a good red dot, because much of the budget was blown on making it look like an Eotech.

 

[economist]

Aimpoint claims all of their red dot optics are parallax free.

Parallax is a close range issue. Test it. Set up a target and see where you hit for different head positions on the gun. I don't expect it will matter much at 1x with any decent optic unless the goal is dime sized groups at 25 yards.

Having shot a decent amount through 1-4x scopes and with various Aimpoint dots, I would say the biggest issues are ability to pick up the sight quickly and weight of the optic. Practically, I have come to value the magnified optics less inside of 200 (maybe even 300) yards if the goal is hits on torso sized targets. The value of a light quick handling gun is more to me than the benefit offered by magnification on an AR being shot from standing position, moving, etc. In kneeling, prone and at greater distance the scopes win.

 

[Ryan9896]

So what would u guys recommend for close range quick acquisition shooting in the $200 range?

 

[lupis42]

So what would u guys recommend for close range quick acquisition shooting in the $200 range?

There's not a ton of new options for that price, but I've heard decent things about the Burris Fast-fire and C-More dots.
Sometimes used Eotechs will be going for under $300 too.

One thing I will say, try before you buy. Whatever you wind up getting, try to make sure you've taken one for a spin at least once before so that you know it's what you want, as optics are no fun to buy twice.

 

[drgrant]

I have a Primary Arms micro dot on my AK, and it actually works pretty well.... like $80 or so. It;s the only cheap optic I've ever bought that wasn't a complete piece of shit. I have no doubt that it is nowhere near as good as something like an Aimpoint T1 Micro, but it seems pretty decent for what it is.

-Mike

 

[Ryan9896]

anyone know someone selling something used?? i searched classifieds but not much there for optics....

so leapers, truglo, barska, etc....these are all junk?? i read so many mixed reviews on all of these brands, and i don't know any one with all kinds of different optics to try out first hand before i buy, so unfortunately i don't think i can "try before i buy". most gun shops in my area won't even open the glass optics case unless you definately want to buy whatever it is your asking about, nevermind open the box, and definately nevermind mounting it on a gun and trying it out!! most MA gunshops are like federal reserves or something, haha.

 

[atmay]

I have a CMore STS, it was ~250 bucks plus a mount and stuff. Works pretty well.

The AimPoint PRO is a good deal to begin with, if you can find a used one it'll probably be around your price range.


Or, like Mike said....Primary Arms is hugely popular for range use.

 

[Ryan9896]

I have a Primary Arms micro dot on my AK, and it actually works pretty well.... like $80 or so.

i found a micro dot w/ kill flash, american defense T1 mount, and a spacer for $179, is this something i should consider?

 

[PaulD]

I have a Primary Arms micro dot on my AK, and it actually works pretty well.... like $80 or so. It;s the only cheap optic I've ever bought that wasn't a complete piece of shit. I have no doubt that it is nowhere near as good as something like an Aimpoint T1 Micro, but it seems pretty decent for what it is.

-Mike

The Vortex Strike Fire is supposed to be another good budget red dot option.

 

[Ryan9896]

i see a Vortex SPARC red dot w/ mount for $195 shipped, plus the Primary Arms package i mentioned above.......both of these are in my range.

 

[lupis42]

i found a micro dot w/ kill flash, american defense T1 mount, and a spacer for $179, is this something i should consider?

I would definitely include Primary arms in any consideration of budget optics/reddots.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

I recently purchased a PA red dot and was impressed with the quality for a sub-$100 sight. Definite clicks when adjusting windage and elevation, limited bleeding of the sight ( mine has the 4 different sights), and uses a AA battery. While it is not a top tier sight, for the money it was well worth it.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

The Vortex Strike Fire is supposed to be another good budget red dot option.

Not a bad sight but there is some substantial bleeding of the dot that can cause issues for some.

 

[Another_David]

So what would u guys recommend for close range quick acquisition shooting in the $200 range?

Practice iron sights / save your $$$. But yes, you can look for used but beware of cheap knock offs. There was an Eotech group buy not long ago and the Aimpoint R1's were discontinued (silver colored version) and they were like half price for a while and a bunch ended up on eBay. But I would save your $$ for a new Eotech XPS, which has the rail mount integrated. (you have a rail already)?

do some youtube-research and you'll see how the eotech hologram floats on the target regardless of the user's sight picture

 

[Ryan9896]

yes, i have a flat top M&P15FT with a mid-length quadrail & Magpul folding battle sights. i would be fine with just the battle sights, but they are completely useless in low light situations or when aiming at any dark-colored target/background.

maybe i will wait for my tax return and just buy an EOTech, but i really have a tough time dropping that kind of money on optics, it kills me!! i'd rather spend that money on another gun!!!

 

[47stages]

If you don't mind my asking, are you just looking for general target shooting or are you planning to take part in USPSA/IDPA carbine shoots? If you are doing carbine competitions the difference between an EOTech and $200 is ~ 3-4 match's worth of ammo (depending on match length and if you get a sale on the sight). If you are really interested in doing matches extensively, the sight cost really ends up being dwarfed by ammo costs.

I have never used a 1x4 scope but have used an EOTech extensively and have only good things to say. Personal anecdote: my sight came off in the middle of a stage (Don't use the allen key bolt for securing an EOTech; if it get's loose, you cannot tell) and I was only able to finish through the use of back-up sights. After the stage, I cleaned off the EOtech and put it back on thanks to the advice of a fellow shooter. It was within 1 MOA of its original sighting, and that is impressive. I think Supermoto and the rest generally use higher quality scopes though, the magnification option is hard to beat for long distance shots.

 

[FREDDY401]

I know your budget is in the $200 range, but I would suggest saving for an EOTech 512. Some can be had for around $350 - $400. I've had mine for about a year now and absolutely love the thing. Nice sized sight window and rugged as hell. I've heard good things about the Vortex's but I've also heard of that bleeding problem too. I would go with the proven EOTech's.

 

[Supermoto]

I've use a lot of different red dot and scopes. I change them out depending on the match I'm shooting

For 3 gun or rifle matches with long stages, I use a ACOG TA11 3.5x with red chevron. It gets me to 600 yards with ease. I also use it for precision shots from 25 yards out. Stuff like clay bird that I need to be able to see a hole in if it doesn't break. The acog is just awesome, well worth the cost.
For the close in fast stuff I use a offset dot. right now its a aimpoint micro.

Other dots I have used in the order I like them

C-more standard design. This is an awesome red dot. parallax is not an issue as I'm rarely taking precision shots, but I have used it successfully out to 300 yards on pepper poppers. Sighting in can be a pain since there are no click, but I haven't had any issue with the dot wondering. The sight has been rugged and reliable. but battery life is not good. so its a range only red dot It is very fast to shoot with, and you can get different size diodes to change dot size with out buying a new scope. I have a bunch of them, on handguns and rifles

Aimpoint Micro, can't beat the battery life and ruggedness, 4 moa is to small for close fast stuff, but to big for far stuff. Dot is nice and bright, works great in the rain. I find the c-more to be a little faster. I'm running it as a side offset now, adds a little weight compared to the minis, but hasn't been an issue

C-more STS, rugged, dot is bright, but not a true red, more orange, my eye doesn't pick it up as fast as a true red. The screen is a little small and has a blue tint. Has an on/off/max switch with is nice and battery life seems to be good. I run this on my Saiga shotgun and it has not missed a beat.

Primary Arms Green reflex, the dot is green, but very bright, battery life is good, the screen is clear and the scope weighs nothing. but ruggedness suffers, I had mine crap out during a class and a practice right before a match. Primary arms was great about replacing it, but it won't go back on a match gun. But it is very light, very small and bright, if it was 100% reliable it would be back on my rifle as a side mount. I shot a match with it on top as the primary and likes it a lot.

Primary Micro replica, nice sight, battery life is good. dot is bigger than a true aimpoint, but not as bright so it made it harder to track at speed. reliability has been good, doubling up on batteries helps with he brightness, but its still not enough on very bright days shooting at a white target

Eotech. don't care for the reticule, to cluttered, sight is to big and bulky, buttons suck, I found a single aimpoint is faster up close for me, especially on targets that require holding high. Personal preference thing. But I have had batteries break and corrode the inside, killing the dot while shooting.

Jpoints, shot with one for about a year, mainly on handguns and rifle, dot is not bright enough and if you ramp up the voltage, it will star. wasn't very reliable, had to send a couple back, so did a few other people I know.

A primary arms scope with get you a decent dot for cheap with great customer service, but I wouldn't depend on them for a match and certainly not for self defense, but they are fine for the range

 

[Ryan9896]

If you don't mind my asking, are you just looking for general target shooting or are you planning to take part in USPSA/IDPA carbine shoots?

i am just starting to get back into shooting after being out of the game for abour 4 years. i recently bought myself an AR15 (5.56/.223) for messing around at the range and my friends private property, i have always wanted one, and of course it serves as a home defense weapon. i am awaiting my membership to a club that has a 50, 100, & 300 yard outdoor range, i will need to practice on the shorter ranges before i can attempt to qualify for the longer range, of course. i have never participated in any competitions or shoots, so i am completely in the dark with that stuff. i am not a veteran, i am not a LEO, i am not active military, i am not a sharp shooter, and i am not swimming in money!!! so given that, i want decent quality optics which will allow me to participate in both long and short range target shooting, and maybe once i get some experience and practice under my belt i will participate in some competitions. for right now i just want to get back in the groove of things and have some fun blowing off some rounds.

knowing that, i also don't like buying things twice. so i don't want to get cheap equipment, but i WILL NOT spend more than $500 on optics, i just can't do it, doesn't make sense given my financial position. i had a hard enough time telling the wife i spent $1100 on the black rifle, nevermind trying to explain $500 on a sight system for it!! (do those come with an extra bedroom??? haha) i really like the EOTech and understand the difference in quality, so when my taxes come in i would feel more comfortable spending the $300-$400 on one, so i think that's what i'll do.

 

[Another_David]

maybe just get some trijicon AR iron sights then?

 

[DrNVP]

You can get an EOTech for around $400. Nothing wrong with the EOtech provided that you use lithium batteries. Certainly not as rugged as an Aimpoint, but I have put a ton of rounds through mine doing drills, competitions, and classes with 0 problems.

IMO, practice with irons and continue to save up until you can get a real quality optic. You'll be better off than if you blew what you already saved on a piece of junk that craps out on you at the worst possible time (you mentioned home defense was one reason why you have an AR)

 

[FREDDY401]

You can get an EOTech for around $400. Nothing wrong with the EOtech provided that you use lithium batteries. Certainly not as rugged as an Aimpoint, but I have put a ton of rounds through mine doing drills, competitions, and classes with 0 problems.

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