AR15 sights/optics questions

racer1245

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I have an AR15 with about a 16" barrel/muzzle brake. Currently I am using it with an Eotech 1x optic and Magpul BUS. I'm doing training drills 5-50 yards on paper with a 50 yard 0. So far that's been fine.

I'm interested in trying 2-gun and the distances might be longer. So I am thinking about adding hardware but I don't want it to be overloaded. So:
Do I keep the Eotech 1 x (which I Iove) and add a 3x magnifier? If I do that then I need to move the BUS to a side angled rail or get rid of them all together. Will I be able to flip the magnifier fast enough when I need to?
Or do I switch to a magnified optic (I have a 1-6 Prism available) with the BUS on the main rail and then install a red dot on an angled rail? If I do that I am concerned that I won't be able to judge the hold over correctly.
 
I have an AR15 with about a 16" barrel/muzzle brake. Currently I am using it with an Eotech 1x optic and Magpul BUS. I'm doing training drills 5-50 yards on paper with a 50 yard 0. So far that's been fine.

I'm interested in trying 2-gun and the distances might be longer. So I am thinking about adding hardware but I don't want it to be overloaded. So:
Do I keep the Eotech 1 x (which I Iove) and add a 3x magnifier? If I do that then I need to move the BUS to a side angled rail or get rid of them all together. Will I be able to flip the magnifier fast enough when I need to?
Or do I switch to a magnified optic (I have a 1-6 Prism available) with the BUS on the main rail and then install a red dot on an angled rail? If I do that I am concerned that I won't be able to judge the hold over correctly.
Routinely use Eotech HWS at ranges longer than 50 yds with no problem. Magnifier only needed with small targets to more accurately judge holdovers/unders at longer range. Torso targets, 8 or 10"plates at 100 yds don't require magnifier as much as a stable hold and practice. LPVO is another option, but I find myself faster and accurate enough with LPVO set at 1X used as red dot most of the time anyway in a 2-gun setting. YMMV
 
I’ve spent years trying to become an LPVO fan and always end up back with a holographic + magnifier. the ability to remove the magnifier and have a legit defensive setup is huge. the bulk, weight, useless intermediate magnification ranges and eyebox issues all make the LPVOs a second choice for me. That being said I do use a few of them for dedicated purposes. For 2 gun (or other gun games) the LPVO makes plenty of sense. For a truly versatile defensive rifle I’m much more a fan of the holo + magnifier.

i have a sneaking suspicion that primary arms is going to produce a variable prism 1x/4x similar to an elcan specter. A quick flip prism optic like this could potentially convert me away from the holo + magnifier. overall I suspect the prism technology to progress and eventually we will look back at erector tube-based optics and laugh.
 
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Primary Arms makes a 3x only red dot optic that looks great but I don't want only 3x and I don't like having another dot on the side on an angle.

So I am thinking of adding a magnifier to my Eotech set-up but I need to give up my BU irons. How do you guys feel about giving those up? I could add them to the side but they seem like they would be getting caught on stuff plus the angle will mess with hold over/under.

I have a new 1x-6x LPVO that I am mounting on my 20" AR that has a heavy barrel. I won't really use that for run and gun (I think) rather for longer distances with a rest or bipod. Thoughts on that?
 
1x-6x LPVO that I am mounting on my 20" AR that has a heavy barrel.
not much sense in that i would think, a heavy 20" - if it shoots true subMOA - it is where a 3-18x is very suitable for 100-400yds shots. but a 1-6x would also work, of course.
1-10x arrowhead LPVO i got on a pencil barrel 16" AR15 that shoots subMOA as well while cold - and it is working very nice there.

tavor that shoots 3-2MOA with steel ammo is great with a 3x prism. with 1x prism i cannot hit 8" steel plate at 100yds well, 3x makes it very simple and it trackable enough.
i did not like primary arms and vortex prisms and ended up with at3 tactical - which not everybody may like.
 
This is one of the most discussed topics in the AR world, what optics do I need. There are so many choices nowadays that it's almost bewildering.

I am by no means an expert but I've tried to read as much as I can.

If I were getting into 2-gun competition with what you have right now, I would stick with that for the beginning. It's what you know.

See how you do THEN try to look at other options, maybe from other competitors.

Unless you have tons of money to pick up every little (little?) item others recommend. But that could leave you chasing that magical "perfect" optic.

Just my two pennies.
 
Primary Arms makes a 3x only red dot optic that looks great but I don't want only 3x and I don't like having another dot on the side on an angle.

So I am thinking of adding a magnifier to my Eotech set-up but I need to give up my BU irons. How do you guys feel about giving those up? I could add them to the side but they seem like they would be getting caught on stuff plus the angle will mess with hold over/under.

I have a new 1x-6x LPVO that I am mounting on my 20" AR that has a heavy barrel. I won't really use that for run and gun (I think) rather for longer distances with a rest or bipod. Thoughts on that?
The magnifier won’t be as good as you think and I don’t mean that by quality or brand. Most of the time you will not be using the magnifier. When it’s off to the side it can be cumbersome, get in the way of racking your charging handle, spend brass hitting the lense when not in use, and it just isn’t my cup of tea. I would use your LVPO. Doesn’t have to be on a 20 inch upper for distance. U can do room clearing to 500+ yard shots and everything in between with it. I have a gently used Sig Juliet 3x Magnifier and 3 different LVPO’s that look like they have been dragged through a forest. 👍🏻
 
chasing that magical "perfect" optic
there is no perfect - any optic serves to hit specific anticipated target.
hitting a same bullet hole at 300yds from a bench differs from hitting a full size torso target at 50yds while running.

it i really a very simple thing. any rifle owner needs to know what spray cone his specific rifle does with what specific type of ammo.
as long as your optic of choice allows you to see that area well at all the distances you need - it is optimal for that rifle. end of story.
 
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The magnifier won’t be as good as you think and I don’t mean that by quality or brand. Most of the time you will not be using the magnifier. When it’s off to the side it can be cumbersome, get in the way of racking your charging handle, spend brass hitting the lense when not in use, and it just isn’t my cup of tea. I would use your LVPO. Doesn’t have to be on a 20 inch upper for distance. U can do room clearing to 500+ yard shots and everything in between with it. I have a gently used Sig Juliet 3x Magnifier and 3 different LVPO’s that look like they have been dragged through a forest. 👍🏻
The solution is a flip to center magnifier mount unless you’re built like Gimli and use a low mount.
 
I walked that same path and at the same distances. I am not sure I have found a good solution, but I will share my experiences:

- Started with an Eotech and a flip-in magnifier. This combo got heavy, the magnifier never seemed to be in the right place for the current range I had to shoot at. In the rain, the two separate optical devices meant 2 more surfaces to gather raindrops. Also, I have bad astigmatism. The Eotech is clearer than most red dots, but always a little fuzzy, "prism" scopes, do not have that problem. Note: If you do not have astigmatic eyes, I would probably stick with this solution, using the lightest flip-in magnifier you can get. I know of no other sight solution quicker on-target than an unmagnified Eotech.

- Tried an LVPO (1-6) (Vortex Strike Eagle) prism scope. The high weight (scope is 17 oz? plus the mount) got annoying. The real killer was the time it takes to line up the thing for a shot. A full-sized scope means more time is required to get it aligned every time you bring it up. The magnification was again constantly needing adjustment depending upon distance. In a recent class, I ended up just leaving it at 3X. Something to consider: prism scopes have etched glass, so even if the battery/electronics fails, you still have a black sight reticle you can use.

- Now I am trying a Vortex 3X micro prism (I wanted the new 3X micro prism from Primary Arms, but it is ridiculously backordered). It is half the weight of the LVPO. Shorter than the strike eagle, so it seemed quick to get a sight picture when bringing it up to my eye. I have not tried it in a class yet, but ran 2 mags through the gun for sight-in and offhand practice and liked it. The downside of the prism scopes is that it is a scope with a certain focus distance. The distance at which you must keep between your eye and the scope is not very large and the range is narrow, not like a red-dot or eotech, where any distance is fine.


What I have not figured out is a good backup sight solution. The two prism scopes above block backup sights (because they are magnified and they are all the way to the rear on the rail). I tried quick-release mounts, but that adds more weight (and cost). I tried the 45 degree offset backup sights, but they stick out and tend to get caught on things (like the sling) or block the ejection port or charging handle, left or right side. So...I have no backup sights at the moment.
 
Vortex 3X micro prism
this one has a really narrow eye box - what you have already discovered. it is its major (probably, single) flaw, but it renders this one not very usable.
it is not normal nor expected for prisms. it is just what vortex did. most 1x prisms do not not that issue, btw, including vortex ones.
 
Have you tried an ACOG yet? Best of both worlds and sounds like it will handle what you’re trying to do.
 
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