Healey "closing the loophole" letter to gun dealers

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I still like the analogy

Race cars are not allowed on the road, your car is a Mass Legal race car as it has 4 tires and runs on an internal combustion engine, so she could declare that manufacturers were all getting around the law, and they are now illegal and have been illegal and you are all felons

Biggest problem with messaging is the fact this revolves around guns. That's were the biggest hurdle comes from. We have to likely drop any previously used analogies and attack this from the root issue standpoint if we want effective messaging.

The root issue here is power grab/over reach/unilateral rule without regard to the other two branches of government, etc.

Your analogy perfectly explains this, but the guns/car comparison has been beaten to death, it will instantly clam people up and shut them down. I think a better approach is find a civil right they like and attack that one.

If you're talking to a pro-choice dem: "What if a republican AG made all abortions illegal like this, except the plan B pill?"

If you're talking to a Real Estate Agent: "What if she get's slighted in a land deal and decides to get her revenge by forcing you to have a new license to sell commercial and all commercial sales in the last 20 years are now voidable"

If you're talking to a loud and staunch LQBT supporter "After things like DOMA & the results in NC & CA that were over turned, aren't you a wee bit weary of a single politician being able to decide which rights you have and when? No everyone can afford to take a case to SCOTUS."

If you're talking to a "gun owner" who approves of AWB's "We both know people will keep shooting each other, what do you think will be banned next? Likely Bolt actions, which will be called "sniper rifles". After that? Shotguns obviously no civilian needs that much power, a 12 gauge is a hell of a gun. Even though you may not like Modern Sporting Rifles, giving up this ground isn't going to make your fight, when they get to the guns you like, any easier."

If we want to make gains in messaging we need to be a-political. (That means no Trump signs, no slurs on her sexuality and no "blue lives matter" or any of that.) We need to be above the fray and on message.

This is about civil rights, today in MA. Not which POTUS candidate will possibly help rights more, not about cops & good or bad shoots and certainly not about personal attacks on the person trampling our rights not relevant to the issue. (I mean calling her a petty tyrant is hyperbole, but much different than attacks on her sexuality, marriage status or looks.)

I'm not trying to tell people what to say, or what to think. I'm just making the case for what's going to be effective in getting our voices heard and what isn't.
 
Difference now with EO's and say, the 50's, is that now the executive branch has enormous enforcement agencies with limitless resources to do its bidding while the courts sort it out.
I agree, except rather than the courts sorting it out, they have taken the stance of deferring to the agencies interpretation as long as they are "permissible". http://www.foreffectivegov.org/node/2624
 
Just talked to a gun dealer friend of mine, he finally got a call back from the AG's office.

He asked about semi-auto rifles, mentioned the M1a and the 10/22 they said they were all good to sell same with handguns that are not already banned.

What they told him is that this only applies to AR's and AK's lookalikes. If that is the case they sure wrote it poorly. Sounds like they didn't know how to write up if it "looks like" or has one evil feature... the way I read it, it could apply to any semi.

They also said anyone who has one is legal, they are looking for sales after 7/20. He said they also claimed to have a list of dealers they are "watching" which is probably fear mongering.

On the you are legal, see Healey's comments about "for now" and "at this time" so that can change with the wind.
 
They also said anyone who has one is legal, they are looking for sales after 7/20.

If on 7/20 the AG didn't make a new law this is impossible from a legal standpoint. Either the law has always been like it is, or a new law was created on 7/20 therefore previous weapons are fine.

Any ruling on an M&P 15/22 Sport? :)
 
Just talked to a gun dealer friend of mine, he finally got a call back from the AG's office.

He asked about semi-auto rifles, mentioned the M1a and the 10/22 they said they were all good to sell same with handguns that are not already banned.

What they told him is that this only applies to AR's and AK's lookalikes. If that is the case they sure wrote it poorly. Sounds like they didn't know how to write up if it "looks like" or has one evil feature... the way I read it, it could apply to any semi.

They also said anyone who has one is legal, they are looking for sales after 7/20. He said they also claimed to have a list of dealers they are "watching" which is probably fear mongering.

On the you are legal, see Healey's comments about "for now" and "at this time" so that can change with the wind.
Did you get the name of the person who told you this?

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There is NO "loophole" - there is a specific set of criteria which were complied with.

The manufacturers did NOT "decide what the law is" - the legislature did. THREE times.

The only one unilaterally deciding "what the law is" is Healey herself - and flouting 22 years of accepted criteria, under oft-enacted law to do so, for political purposes.

This x 1000. There is no loophole...the law is the loophole. It was a narrowly-crafted law with detailed specifics, most likely so it would pass constitutional muster by not banning an entire class of weapons (all semis). Building a weapon without certain features in order to comply with the specifics of the law is not a loophole!

-JR
 
now you can't buy a full rifle but what about a lower receiver...or would something like that get flagged once you register it...what about a scar
 
What about AR-type bolt and pump action?

For example POF Revolt
http://pof-usa.com/revolt/

It uses what essentially is a fully operational AR lower and for ban states they permanently fix the front pin so that the rifle cannot be taken apart completely. Of note, legal in the UK and Australia.

Troy has a pump action "AR". Now I've seen the 223 version and the receiver is different - no hole for buffer tube so it cannot be converted to a semi auto without access to a machine shop.
 
Technically anything that mounts to a rail, yes.

Any muzzle device is probably interchangeable between the 2 (but I've never tried). They look quite scary, so...
Rail mounted accessories and muzzle devices are not on the AGs list of interchangeable parts.
 
Rail mounted accessories and muzzle devices are not on the AGs list of interchangeable parts.
I agree that they aren't on the list, however, the list is not exhaustive it is just an example.

Such operating components may include, but are not limited to: 1) the trigger assembly; 2) the bolt carrier or bolt carrier group; 3) the charging handle; 4) the extractor or extractor assembly; or 5) the magazine port.
 
New development:


GOAL is supporting this.


I m reading this, there is a lot or protection built in for pre-7/21 folks. There is some language that states guidances cannot be given. I am not sure why we need the protection if the guidance is removed. Its like this bill is more for pre 7/21 protection but less for "i can go buy an AR tomorrow". Hopefully i am confused.
 
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Sending emails and tweets to everyone who carried the article on "Baker Pushes Back" to let them know Cyndi Roy Gonzalez, Healey's communication's director lied to you. Now @MassAGO "dealer hotline" is telling callers to call EOPPS b/c they won't/can't answer questions.
 
New development:


GOAL is supporting this.


I m reading this, there is a lot or protection built in for pre-7/21 folks. There is some language that states guidances cannot be given. I am not sure why we need the protection if the guidance is removed. Its like this bill is more for pre 7/21 protection but less for "i can go buy an AR tomorrow". Hopefully i am confused.

So this bill accepts the AG's interpretation going forward but grandfathers pre 7/21? And goal is supporting it? WTF???
 
So this bill accepts the AG's interpretation going forward but grandfathers pre 7/21? And goal is supporting it? WTF???

It gives you everything you want, but it is broken down to explicitly 1) protect the pre-7/21 status quo, 2) remove AG authority to make stuff up, 3) remove 93A oversight, 4) add some higher penalties for criminals.

If I read it correctly, you should be happy with this bill.

- - - Updated - - -

Im not reading it that way. I think this puts us back to 7/19. I'll wait for other to weigh in.

And then some. It would appear to eliminate 'the list' as well as rule by executive fiat.

IMO, it's pretty well constructed. Everyone can get at least some of what they want, and if it passes, we're in at least clearly protected.
 
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Healey "closing the loophole" letter to gun dealers

According to the summary it looks like it strips her o authority to regulate firearm sales, prohibits changes to assault weapon definitions, increases the fine for not registering a gun, increases jail time for for using a gun while committing a felony if the person is unlicensed, and throws in some extra protection for everyone who bought guns before 7/21. I don't know why they need that part. Maybe just playing it safe in case healey says they can't take away her authority?


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Edit: looks pretty good other than increased punishment for not registering. But if that is the compromise they need to get rid of the handgun bs I am ok with it.
 
Im not reading it that way. I think this puts us back to 7/19. I'll wait for other to weigh in.

It does seem to imply that anyone who became licensed AFTER that date is not permitted buy or transfer "assault weapons." In effect, we begin to go extinct once that legislation becomes law.
 
It does seem to imply that anyone who became licensed AFTER that date is not permitted buy or transfer "assault weapons." In effect, we begin to go extinct once that legislation becomes law.
I'm not as sure. I read it as explicit protection. I will reread it.
 
Edit: looks pretty good other than increased punishment for not registering. But if that is the compromise they need to get rid of the handgun bs I am ok with it.

It's not really a compromise if you do transfers the way you always have. And this gives all of the legislators the ability to say 'Look, we passed a law that increases penalties for guns!' The way I see it, if any part of this passes, it's good for everyone. If all of it passes, it will be a great day. (I am not optimistic to dare hope that will happen.)
 
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