HARVARD OCTOBER 10 MONTHLY MATCH - RIFLE

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Will all the stages have steel or just one like last year? If there's a lot of steel, I might use the M1 carbine because I have plenty of non-steel ammo for it (ammo for it is not cheap) - and yes, it's a rifle cartridge. Money's so tight at the moment that I don't think I can afford 250 rounds of quality .223 in that timeframe, all I have is Silver Bear, Wolf, and Tula, all of which attract a magnet.

Make some "Mexican Match" ammo. Pull the bullets, and replace them with non steel bullets.
 
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This will be my first rifle match. What do I need to bring?

Dave
A rifle, preferably one that's sighted in, ammo, take note of the steel bulleted ammo in previous threads, magazines and holders, a case for the rifle. Eye and ear protection is mandatory!
Oh, and entry fee money.
 
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And if anyone even hints about bringing rimfire or pistol caliber things, we're going to bring out the 1-inch thick plates and make them worth 50 points (minus 100 for a miss). And we'll have special "rimfire" scoring; "A" is worth 1 point, "B," "C," and "D" are worth zero; oh, and the "Rimfire/Pistol-caliber/Cowboy Rifle" division entry fee is $200.

Seriously, I completely understand that rifle ammo is ridiculously expensive and I wish that there was light at the end of the tunnel. But this is only once a year so let's go out and find a pair and strap 'em on. It would be very difficult to score a fair rifle match if some competitors are using ammunition that isn't on the same scale. Folks asked for a Rifle Match and we're going to do our best to make it a good one; so let's all bring a rifle.

Ah ya ....... "find a pair" ...... to shoot pistol distance's [rolleyes]

Hell why don't you make it real manly and ban optics too !!
Real men shoot iron sights and Garands [smile]



(I think the flaming bug from the idpa thread has bit me on the arse)
 
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OK a serious rookie question. I'm sighted in at 25 yds zero. I'm assuming that wouldn't be that far off at the 75yds right? I'm shooting a stock AR 15 with iron sights. If I remember correctly it shouldn't be more than an inch high or so at those distances.
 

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IMO 50 > 25

Numbers are close depending on barrel length, bullet weight, and FPS.

YDs DROP(in)
0 -2.0
25 -0.9
50 0.0 <- ZERO
75 0.6
100 1.0
 
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IMO 50 > 25

Numbers are close depending on barrel length, bullet weight, and FPS.

YDs DROP(in)
0 -2.0
25 -0.9
50 0.0 <- ZERO
75 0.6
100 1.0

Hmm makes some sense to me. thanks. I'm likely using Federal X193 which I think it 55gr. I have a Bushmaster M4A3 Carbine. If I don't get to zero at 50 yds it doesn't seem like it wouldn't be much more than 2-3" at 75 yds right? I can live with a little hold under if that's what the jargon is.
 
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OK a serious rookie question. I'm sighted in at 25 yds zero. I'm assuming that wouldn't be that far off at the 75yds right? I'm shooting a stock AR 15 with iron sights. If I remember correctly it shouldn't be more than an inch high or so at those distances.

Sight it in at no less than 50 yards, 100 will be better. Windage adjustments will be much closer. Don't forget the sight offset that's about 2 1/2 -2 3/4 "
Dave, look here! Bruce's answer is THE answer!
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114457&pid=1298904&st=0&#entry1298904
 
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You are probably going to have under 10 shots at 75 yards. but more than 100 rounds at 7-25 yards. I rather have to not worry about hold over on the fast shots and use hold under on the precision shots
 
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You are probably going to have under 10 shots at 75 yards. but more than 100 rounds at 7-25 yards. I rather have to not worry about hold over on the fast shots and use hold under on the precision shots

So are you saying you are sighting your gun in at 25 yds and then using hold under for the longer ones? Just getting some ideas...
 
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25 yard zero
Drop Chart for XM193
Range 25 zero
25 0
50 2.24
75 4.2
100 5.86
150 8.26
200 9.31
250 8.85
300 6.71
350 2.7
400 -3.39

My mistake --- thought you were talking about a 50 yard zero.

Rob are you shooting the match too?

I have no match experience, and the OP makes me think this may not be a good place to start, though it does sound like fun. I may come to watch.
 
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I'm going to sight in at 25 yards or under, then if the stage with the long shots is only long shots, I will adjust my scope for a 75 yard zero. If it is a mixture, I will keep my short range zero.
 
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I'm going to sight in at 25 yards or under, then if the stage with the long shots is only long shots, I will adjust my scope for a 75 yard zero. If it is a mixture, I will keep my short range zero.

Makes sense. I think I'll check my zero next week if I can and see if I can adjust the clicks for 75 yds... although I think when it's set up for a zero at 25 yds the adjustments/clicks are only for much longer shots where the shots would be below the line of sight.... I'll figure it out. It will be fun either way.
 

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Anyway, while we always welcome new shooters to USPSA shooting, this match may not be a good venue for people new to Action Shooting. That's a difficult thing to say because we love having new shooters, but don't worry, we still have another pistol match coming in November (not to mention what the winter might bring.)

Ahh I didn't even read this far down. Oh well, I guess I'll train that day instead. [thinking]
 

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Ahh I didn't even read this far down. Oh well, I guess I'll train that day instead. [thinking]

You shot the John Kelly match, so you're not new to action shooting, plus you have military experience.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think Dan was more referring to people who've never done anything beyond static paper punching on a square range. A match isn't the place to learn to to shoot under pressure, shoot while moving and reload at speed, etc.
 
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I'm going to sight in at 25 yards or under, then if the stage with the long shots is only long shots, I will adjust my scope for a 75 yard zero. If it is a mixture, I will keep my short range zero.
You do it your way, I'll do it mine.
I'll trust Bruce Piatt's experience, I've known him longer.[smile]

Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Manufacturer: Hornady Description: Full Metal Jacket Boat Tail W/C
Caliber: 0.224 in Weight: 55.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.243 G1

Muzzle Velocity: 3000.0 ft/s

Sight Height: 2.80 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg

Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph

Temperature: 70.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft

Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 4.695 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA

Atmospheric Density: 0.07488 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1128.2 ft/s

Maximum PBR: 335 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 290 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 171 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 411.0 ft•lbs

Sectional Density: 0.157 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
10 -2.3 -22.2 0.0 0.1 2960.2 2.624 1070.0 0.010 1.8 16.9
20 -1.9 -9.0 0.0 0.2 2920.7 2.589 1041.6 0.020 3.6 17.0
30 -1.5 -4.8 0.1 0.3 2881.6 2.554 1013.9 0.031 5.4 17.1
40 -1.2 -2.8 0.2 0.5 2842.9 2.520 986.8 0.041 7.2 17.3
50 -0.8 -1.6 0.3 0.6 2804.5 2.486 960.4 0.052 9.1 17.4
60 -0.6 -0.9 0.4 0.7 2766.4 2.452 934.5 0.062 11.0 17.5
70 -0.4 -0.5 0.6 0.8 2728.6 2.419 909.1 0.073 12.9 17.6
80 -0.2 -0.2 0.8 0.9 2691.2 2.385 884.3 0.084 14.9 17.7
90 -0.1 -0.1 1.0 1.1 2654.1 2.352 860.1 0.096 16.8 17.9
100 -0.0 -0.0 1.2 1.2 2617.3 2.320 836.4 0.107 18.8 18.0
110 0.0 0.0 1.5 1.3 2580.7 2.287 813.2 0.119 20.9 18.1
120 -0.0 -0.0 1.8 1.4 2544.5 2.255 790.6 0.130 22.9 18.3
130 -0.1 -0.1 2.1 1.6 2508.6 2.223 768.4 0.142 25.0 18.4
140 -0.2 -0.2 2.5 1.7 2472.9 2.192 746.7 0.154 27.1 18.5
150 -0.4 -0.3 2.9 1.8 2437.6 2.161 725.5 0.166 29.3 18.7
160 -0.7 -0.4 3.3 2.0 2402.5 2.129 704.8 0.179 31.5 18.8
170 -1.0 -0.6 3.8 2.1 2367.7 2.099 684.5 0.191 33.7 18.9
180 -1.4 -0.7 4.3 2.3 2333.2 2.068 664.7 0.204 35.9 19.1
190 -1.8 -0.9 4.8 2.4 2298.9 2.038 645.3 0.217 38.2 19.2
200 -2.3 -1.1 5.3 2.5 2265.0 2.008 626.4 0.230 40.5 19.4

28/09/10 13:46, JBM/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi
 
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You do it your way, I'll do it mine.
I'll trust Bruce Piatt's experience, I've known him longer.[smile]

Dan,
your advice is always spot on. And at a match with a lot more long shots, I would say thats the way to go. but with the the majority of shots last year under 10 yards, If you have to make a tight A shot or a head shot. I prefer to have the dot POA/POI the same. It is what I am used to with my open gun. For me, when I'm hosing, I don't have the time to thinking holdover. Just follow the bouncing ball and slap the trigger. On the long shots when I am focused on the trigger, then I have time to think about holdovers.
 
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Dan,
your advice is always spot on. And at a match with a lot more long shots, I would say thats the way to go. but with the the majority of shots last year under 10 yards, If you have to make a tight A shot or a head shot. I prefer to have the dot POA/POI the same. It is what I am used to with my open gun. For me, when I'm hosing, I don't have the time to thinking holdover. Just follow the bouncing ball and slap the trigger. On the long shots when I am focused on the trigger, then I have time to think about holdovers.

Mike, the only time that could be a factor, is head shots on the 1/2 size targets. Get a mix of small targets on a stage, and trouble ensues. Been there, done that.[wink]
 
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So the rulebook says the "max round count" is 40 on a long course with 2 hits per target. Is that likely to be the case (plus a couple makeup shots)? I'm trying to figure out if I'll be totally hosed with just 2 functional 30-round magazines. I think I'll be hunting a couple pre-ban 30 rounders this week, but how many would one really need?
 
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So the rulebook says the "max round count" is 40 on a long course with 2 hits per target. Is that likely to be the case (plus a couple makeup shots)? I'm trying to figure out if I'll be totally hosed with just 2 functional 30-round magazines. I think I'll be hunting a couple pre-ban 30 rounders this week, but how many would one really need?
An extra or two won't hurt. You may wind up dropping a mag into the dirt. I'd bring a mag brush too, just in case.
 
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Would this be good for a guy who's shot a few pistol (IDPA) events but hasn't shot a rifle action match?

What kind of equipment is needed? Any sort of special safety flags or the like?

Currently about all I have for rifle gear as a AR-15 with a light and red dot, a half dozen 30rd magazines, a sling, a pelican case, and some ammo.

Is this the correct rulebook?

What's the typical per-stage round count? Any problems with carrying spare magazines in a back pocket?
 
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Would this be good for a guy who's shot a few pistol (IDPA) events but hasn't shot a rifle action match?

What kind of equipment is needed? Any sort of special safety flags or the like?

Currently about all I have for rifle gear as a AR-15 with a light and red dot, a half dozen 30rd magazines, a sling, a pelican case, and some ammo.

Is this the correct rulebook?

What's the typical per-stage round count? Any problems with carrying spare magazines in a back pocket?
A chamber flag or equivelent it advised, other wise they give you a big cable tie to act as one.
You shouldn't need a sling at all, but, I always have one in my case.
You have enough magazines, as long as they all work. Folks do put mags in pockets, no problem with that. Take the light off the gun, it will be light outside. Dan Hurley mentioned 180-200 rounds of ammo. There will be steel on some stages, bullets that attract a magnet will not be allowed on steel. Most of the cheap Euro ammo will have a plated steel jacket. Drill a plate, you bought it! A disqualification is possible too.
It's a USPSA match, not IDPA. Round count can be fairly high per stage.
Rules are here.
http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2009RifleRules2-5.pdf
 
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A chamber flag or equivelent it advised, other wise they give you a big cable tie to act as one.
You shouldn't need a sling at all, but, I always have one in my case.
You have enough magazines, as long as they all work. Folks do put mags in pockets, no problem with that. Take the light off the gun, it will be light outside. Dan Hurley mentioned 180-200 rounds of ammo. There will be steel on some stages, bullets that attract a magnet will not be allowed on steel. Most of the cheap Euro ammo will have a plated steel jacket. Drill a plate, you bought it! A disqualification is possible too.
It's a USPSA match, not IDPA. Round count can be fairly high per stage.
Rules are here.
http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2009RifleRules2-5.pdf

Thanks.

After a quick search, I don't seem to even own a magnet (other than computer parts, and I'm not gutting a hard drive for the magnet). Any idea if American Eagle .223 55gr FMJ is safe against steel out of a 16" barrel?
 
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