Guns and Alcohol.

MrHappy and Trinket,

I agree with the both of you, but sometimes you need to know and understand the details of the law.

For example, in CT, you can be above the limit and not be in violation of any laws, if your firearm is unloaded. The 0.1% BAC limit only applies to CARRYING firearms that are LOADED .

So this nuance is important. If you are out hunting with your buddies and want to go out for a drink or three, you can legally lock the guns in your trunk provided they are unloaded.

This makes sense.

I've had a couple of drinks after shooting or hunting. My personal ethos dictate that I wait until the next morning before I unload the car. But either way, the details are relevant.

Don
 
For example, in CT, you can be above the limit and not be in violation of any laws, if your firearm is unloaded. The 0.1% BAC limit only applies to CARRYING firearms that are LOADED .
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I'd have to question if the unloaded part doesn't apply in ma. as well. I personally don't carry if drinking, but let's say you don't have a lock box or trigger guard in your trunk (i know that many if not most might store it anyhow thinking that it was better than risking the consequences) and end up going out for drinks. It stands to reason that by the letter of the law you could simply keep it holstered and empty. I wouldn't want to be the guy testing that argument if only because if you do get pinched and subsequently not charged, your issuing COP will still probably pull your LTC.
 
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In CT you could carry on your person unloaded and there's nothing they could do.

I'm not saying its right, or ethical, but its legal. Even if you were arrested. They could pull your PP and if you appealed, 6 months later the BFPE would order the DPS to send it back to you.

Don
 
AFAIK, there is no "real difference" under mass law between carry of a loaded, and an unloaded firearm. Though the media may make much of a "fully loaded" firearm.

There is no statutory limit for "under the influence" in mass law (0.08 is for driving). There is no prohibition in Mass against carry in a bar.

The above being said, be careful.
 
Terra:

I that section that you reference I don't see what you're getting at.

At the start of the section, there's this language:

Section 10. (a) Whoever, except as provided or exempted by statute, knowingly has in his possession; or knowingly has under his control in a vehicle; a firearm, loaded or unloaded, as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty without either:

Bolded mine.

Since we know from another thread that you can be shot by an unloaded gun [rolleyes].......
 
MisterHappy said:
I that section that you reference I don't see what you're getting at.
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He was referencing 269-10H...

Whoever, having in effect a license to carry firearms issued under section 131 or 131F of chapter 140, carries on his person, or has under his control in a vehicle, a loaded firearm, as defined in section 121 of said chapter 140, while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or marijuana, narcotic drugs, depressants or stimulant substances, all as defined in section 1 of chapter 94C, or the vapors of glue shall be punished by a fine of not more than $5,000 or by imprisonment in the house of correction for not more than two and one-half years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
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...and even the statute you quoted contains additional penalties if the firearm is loaded...

MGL 269-10 said:
(n) Whoever violates paragraph (a) or paragraph (c), by means of a loaded firearm, loaded sawed off shotgun or loaded machine gun shall be further punished by imprisonment in the house of correction for not more than 21/2 years, which sentence shall begin from and after the expiration of the sentence for the violation of paragraph (a) or paragraph (c).
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And then lets also not forget about suitability. If you are found in your car with an unloaded gun while under the influence of the items detailed above, and it makes its way to the CLEO in your town, he can revoke your license based simply on his determination that you are not a suitable person.

Bottom line - if you are drinking in MA. Don't have any firearms on your person or in the car. Loaded or unloaded.

As some of you probably know, I'm a bit of a safety freak. Whenever I would drink at the bar at Niantic Sportsmen (in CT), I would leave the guns in the car when I got home.
They would sit in my locked, alarmed garage until the next morning when all alcohol is completely out of my system. Then I would check them all for empty, wipe them down and put them in the safe.

Again, thats just me. I absolutely positively will not handle a firearm if I've had anything to drink.

Don
 
Kevlar:

I see what you're saying, but I coined the term Massprudence for a reason.....the absolute worst possiblity is the most likely....and further penaltes means that there were soe to begin with.

Remember in Mass, leaning a loaded shotgun against a parked car, along the side of the road, is considered unlawful transportaton. [rolleyes]

Don:

IIRC, there was a recent case where a guy got nailed for OUI: He was asleep in the passenger seat, car was off, he was parked in a parking lot. But, since he was legally over the limit when John Law talked to him, he got "caught". Even though he was doing the responsible thing (Well, eventualy, I guess. He did have to drive there but he knew he was in no shape to drive, so he pulled over).
 
Misterhappy,

The cops can arrest you for anything. I'd like to hear what he ended up with. In CT, its about intent to actually drive the MV. One common litmus test in CT is 1) are you in the drivers seat 2) is the key in the ignition. I don't know anything about MA law, but if the guy kept his mouth shut and hired a decent atty. this would be a piece of cake to get out of.

One interesting difference between CT and MA is that CT's do some stupid arrests of gun owners. However, in 99% of cases, the prosecutor chooses not to prosecute unless an actual law has been broken. (Duane Dutel a standout exception recently. http://www.ammoland.com/2012/07/30/...uane-doutel-has-been-dismissed/#axzz2BFv7cKdo

But even that has ended well, with all charges being dismissed and a Federal Civil Rights suit pending. )

And if a prosecutor chooses to prosecute, the judges seem to be fair. Its not quite that way here.
 
dcmdon said:
Misterhappy,

The cops can arrest you for anything. I'd like to hear what he ended up with. In CT, its about intent to actually drive the MV. One common litmus test in CT is 1) are you in the drivers seat 2) is the key in the ignition. I don't know anything about MA law, but if the guy kept his mouth shut and hired a decent atty. this would be a piece of cake to get out of.
Click to expand...

This was a surprise to me too back when I was still with the PD, but MGL is very different, you can be in the back seat sleeping it off and still be charged with OUI! I agree that a good mouthpiece and a thinking judge might get you off, but the law makes this illegal.
 
Glockaholic said:
What ever happened to "gunpowder and alcohol don't mix"?
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mctrinket said:
The best law in this case is Common Sense. Alcohol and firearms do not mix.
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There is the argument that if you've got bad judgement with a beer in you, you've probably got bad judgement sober, and that if a beer makes the difference between clear headed enough to carry, and not, you probably shouldn't ever carry.

MisterHappy said:
Same applies to alcohol and gasoline, and a lot of other substances.

be an adult.
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Yea, that.
 
Tried searching and scrolling through some threads and didn't see anything, so let me propose this; I'm out with my gf Christmas shopping an hour away from home, and a friend in that area invites me last minute to a party he threw together. I'd like to go have a few drinks, but I'm carrying concealed. I have a lock box in my truck with a cable locking it to the seat. Can I lock the gun up in the box and lock the truck and have a few drinks? Say I get pulled over and breathalized on my way home and I'm under the legal limit of .08%, but have a gun in the locked case under the seat. Am I legal? I'm technically under the influence, but not carrying. Are there laws on the books regarding transporting while under the influence but not over the limit, or do I just catch up with my friend the next time I'm out that way?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
gus310, although this sounds all nice and legal, it would be up to a LEO, DA, judge and jury to determine HOW they want to interpret MGL C. 269 S. 10H. I fear that it may not be in your favor if they find significant (but under 0.08) alcohol in your system.
 
gus310 said:
Tried searching and scrolling through some threads and didn't see anything, so let me propose this; I'm out with my gf Christmas shopping an hour away from home, and a friend in that area invites me last minute to a party he threw together. I'd like to go have a few drinks, but I'm carrying concealed. I have a lock box in my truck with a cable locking it to the seat. Can I lock the gun up in the box and lock the truck and have a few drinks? Say I get pulled over and breathalized on my way home and I'm under the legal limit of .08%, but have a gun in the locked case under the seat. Am I legal? I'm technically under the influence, but not carrying. Are there laws on the books regarding transporting while under the influence but not over the limit, or do I just catch up with my friend the next time I'm out that way?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

Well, first of all you need to unload it and place the ammo into "original containers", i.e. not in magazines. Second, in this state? I'd rather not. It is not illegal to transport under influence, but do you want to argue law with an officer that may not know it? Arrest is a bit more likely if the officer knows you have a gun in the car. Disclaimer: I just threw up a little after writing this. If only we could be sure that officers of the law actually knew the law............
 
waltherlover said:
Interesting that I can fly an airplane drunk and it's a misdemeanor (two years max), but drive a car drunk and it's a felony. I can do a lot more damage with a plane than a car. The FAA would have a field day with my pilots license...
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Thats because up in the sky their is less traffic so its less likely you will crash into someone.[grin]

Should also add to the law "under the influence of vagina vapors" I do crazy things when sniffing vagina!
 
LenS said:
Please provide us with a quote from MGLs where it says this? I agree with the unload part, not the rest of it however.
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I confused it with the home storage verbiage, I apologize. In fact, there is no law that says anything about loaded magazines in the car, neither does it say the ammo should be separated.

However, absence of the verbiage in law may suggest it's up to the court to decide and create case law on the subject of a gun being unloaded. Would you want to be a test case?
 
LenS said:
gus310, although this sounds all nice and legal, it would be up to a LEO, DA, judge and jury to determine HOW they want to interpret MGL C. 269 S. 10H. I fear that it may not be in your favor if they find significant (but under 0.08) alcohol in your system.
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Len,
Does the MGL differentiate between loaded and unloaded?

In CT, the law specifically prohibits carrying a LOADED gun with a BAC over .1.

Would it have made a difference with Gus's example if he first unloaded the gun prior to putting it in the case and stowing the ammo somewhere else??
 
"Whoever, having in effect a license to carry firearms issued under section 131 or 131F of chapter 140, carries on his person, or has under his control in a vehicle,"

So if someone had three beers while out, went to the car, and then locked a loaded handgun in a pistol case in the back seat, chained to the seat, would it be considered under "direct" control of the driver?.
 
A1850 said:
"Whoever, having in effect a license to carry firearms issued under section 131 or 131F of chapter 140, carries on his person, or has under his control in a vehicle,"

So if someone had three beers while out, went to the car, and then locked a loaded handgun in a pistol case in the back seat, chained to the seat, would it be considered under "direct" control of the driver?.
Click to expand...

Nope. That fulfills the storage laws though. As for the direct control law, MA makes it pretty unclear what it really means but I would never want it to be any other place than on my hip.


Sent from my POS iPhone
 
Firing a warning shot when the cop is approaching your car will reliably inform him that you're carrying; firing a second warning shot is expected to both let the officer know that you've been drinking, and that you're placing the firearm in your lockbox so that it's not under your control.

This state is retarded
 

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