Gun Store Price Matching

[drgrant]

I know nothing about the economics of the gun business, but I have a very hard time understanding how some of these smaller gun shops make money on guns. I'll use Pullman Arms, because I'm most familiar with them. They generally have 2 people on, sometimes just one, and it takes a good half hour to get a gun processed. And they don't sell 2 guns or 4 guns an hour all week. Maybe on weekends they get that, but certainly not during the week. So, how do they stay in business, just counting labor costs? The markup on guns must be fantastic! Don't get me wrong, I love Pullman Arms, and I'm just using them as an example. I could point to the gun shop down in Natick as another example.

I would bet that they don't make the bulk of their money on guns, it's probably all the other stuff that goes out the shop door. Or gunsmithing services they do. Guns are just the product they have to carry to drive the sales of the other products.

So, to sum it up, I never cared if Pullman was 20 bucks more than 4 seasons. or 40 bucks. or even 60 bucks. My time and gas and wear and tear on the vehicle to drive to 4 Seasons never made any sense, and I wanted to ensure that Pullman was there for a long time to come.

There will always be other dealers selling guns. Walmart doesn't even sell guns anymore (in MA?) and Dicks barely sells anything (just fudd stuff that almost nobody wants, save for things like 10/22s, few other guns) and no handguns, and I don't think a lot of the box stores get into used guns (unless maybe Cabelas?).

Part of the problem is in the northeast we probably have like maybe SIX non box store dealers (and that's probably pushing it) in upper new england (MA, NH, VT, ME) selling gun products at anything resembling market floor. This is because of the shitty distribution model in the gun industry, as well as the fact that the northeast doesn't have enough gun owners to make the marketplace bigger (and foster more competition).

I don't tend to fret too much when an overpriced LGS goes under. Another one will pop up to take its place. It seems like every time a shop dies, one or two new ones pop up around the same time. The situation in MA sucks though with this healy BS, though. That destroys an entire channel of profit for a lot of dealers.

-Mike

 

[Nick Leduc]

Treat any gun shop like you would a local market. Would you walk into a family owned market and try talking them down on a gallon of milk or a 12 pack of beer? They have set that price because they have determined that price is the price they need to sell it at to be a profitable business. Unfortunately, the gun market is so cut throat between dealers that some dealers are willing to cut prices so low, that they are making $10 off of one sale (and hope to drive sales numbers up) that their super ridiculous price now becomes the "norm". I cant even tell you the amount of times I have purchased guns without doing a price comparison elsewhere because I don't want to know how much I am "overpaying".

It reminds me of one of my coworkers who once scolded me because he saw I was getting gas at a station next to our work....... "you can get is $0.06 cheaper at so and so".............. Yeah, drive across the city to save on 10 gallons. LOL

 

[Rob Boudrie]

They have set that price because they have determined that price is the price they need to sell it at to be a profitable business.

What a store needs is of no concern to me as a buyer, just as what price I need to fit a gun into my budget is of no concern to the store.

Gun pricing is strangely different from other others. Most items that big box chain stores sell are cheaper at the huge chain that has tremendous buying power. The buying power allows these big chains to sell the products at prices that would not even allow a small independent to survive.

But, for some reasons, guns are different. Chains like Cabelas are either paying lower prices than Carl at Four Seasons, or have incompetent buyers - but still fail to be price competitive with the small shops.

 

[drgrant]

What a store needs is of no concern to me as a buyer, just as what price I need to fit a gun into my budget is of no concern to the store.

Gun pricing is strangely different from other others. Most items that big box chain stores sell are cheaper at the huge chain that has tremendous buying power. The buying power allows these big chains to sell the products at prices that would not even allow a small independent to survive.

But, for some reasons, guns are different. Chains like Cabelas are either paying lower prices than Carl at Four Seasons, or have incompetent buyers - but still fail to be price competitive with the small shops.

Box store has better floor traffic than an lgs. They probably figure they can afford to wait and perhaps make a larger margin on each sale. They also know that most of the time, the level 2 or better skinflints aren't going to set foot in their store anyways- so why give product away? It's all about the target demographic of the gun buyer typically involved. People who buy guns from a box store are typically a whole other planet from most of us.

 

[spcantwell]

I tend to prefer to spend a few extra bucks to keep a lgs in buisness. It helps that I don't hagel and generally if I like the gun I've already done the leg work and know what a reasonable price is. So if I see one marked in the range, I buy it...

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[Rob Boudrie]

Box store has better floor traffic than an lgs. They probably figure they can afford to wait and perhaps make a larger margin on each sale. They also know that most of the time, the level 2 or better skinflints aren't going to set foot in their store anyways- so why give product away? It's all about the target demographic of the gun buyer typically involved. People who buy guns from a box store are typically a whole other planet from most of us.

True, but why just guns and not do this with other products as well?

 

[Lignum Vitea]

As someone who has done a whole lot of sales. I find it good business to have a little wiggle room in the price. Knocking off a few bucks makes the customer feel like he's got a good deal. As for FS, a 4 hour round trip to save $40 is not going to happen.

 

[magoo]

My gun shop is in NH no sales tax he offers 5 to 10 % off for cash. He's prices are great too with the internet you have to be price what others are charging or you will get no sales.

 

[EJFudd]

What a store needs is of no concern to me as a buyer, just as what price I need to fit a gun into my budget is of no concern to the store.

Bingo. Someone actually willing to tell it like it is.

I didn't get a whole lot of sympathy out of the last shop I visited that wasn't willing to lower its price to what I could afford... and yes, I know the market for that particular gun like I know the back of my hand.

If he needs that price to survive, God bless him. But unlike a lot of others here (apparently), I am just not in a position to knowingly overpay.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There are a fair number of shops out there that actually think "what they need" determines price.

I know of one excellent specialty software product that totally failed because the business manager priced it at "what he needed".

 

[84ta406]

I tend to prefer to spend a few extra bucks to keep a lgs in buisness. It helps that I don't hagel and generally if I like the gun I've already done the leg work and know what a reasonable price is. So if I see one marked in the range, I buy it...

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That's exactly how I am. Only problem is the shop closest to me isn't 20-30 higher, they're 60-80 sometimes 100 higher. Sadly I have since stopped shipping there.

 

[fencer]

My policy on just about everything is 10% + or -. Not just firearms. If the local guy is within 10%, sometimes 15%, they get my business. Especially if the local guy offers service I need. Just bought a new robotic pool vac. Best price on the internet was $1100. My local pool guy was $1200. And he is the guy I call if I have an issue and am treated fairly and with a quick turn around. Local guy get the business.

Exception to this is meats. I don't care if Market Basket is half the price, we buy from the local butcher shop. It is soooo worth it. Recently had some close friends over for dinner and called the butcher shop and told them " I would like a dozen rib eyes about 1-1/2" thick " True perfection. Priceless.

 

[mac1911]

Do gun stores typically match prices of other gun stores in Massachusetts? Like will any gun store on the Northshore match prices with Four Seasons in Woburn? I know Four Seasons gets more bulk, but will any other store in the area typically match prices to make a sale?

I think Carl mentioned many years ago his Cost prices are not much less if any from other vendors.
Last I knew Carl still buys from whole sale vendors at most levels.
Like JSC, camfour and other true whole sale distributors.
When you think volume from a manufacture think in 10s of thousands of units.
Smaller manufactures will sell directly to small shops.

Carl just wants to turn over more guns and keep the cash flow going.
Some shops might price match others get all flustered and butt hurt over it also.

Shops can do what they want.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Smaller manufactures will sell directly to small shops.

And really small manufacturers sell directly to end users with "special order FFL transfer" being the most typical sales method.

 

[darthraige]

Well this thread escalated quickly. Haha. I guess I could have just called a place, but then I wouldn't have gotten these entertaining responses. The shop I was originally looking at was about 50-60 higher than FS, but there customer service was amazing. I guess in the end I could just tell myself that extra 50 was for phenomenal customer service.

 

[drgrant]

I think Carl mentioned many years ago his Cost prices are not much less if any from other vendors.
Last I knew Carl still buys from whole sale vendors at most levels.
Like JSC, camfour and other true whole sale distributors.
When you think volume from a manufacture think in 10s of thousands of units.

Many years ago that may have been true but the big kids like FS try to cut out mids whenever they can, by using buyers' groups. Basically you put up a bunch of cash up front and you buy an allotment of a production run, a lot of those things start at 10K, 20K, or even far more, on up. It is the only way you can get around the RAPE TRAIN of the mids that you just mentioned. He probably still buys stuff from the mids too like everyone else, but probably is running on the best tier or one of the best tiers of pricing they have.

-Mike

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Many years ago that may have been true but the big kids like FS try to cut out mids whenever they can, by using buyers' groups. Basically you put up a bunch of cash up front and you buy an allotment of a production run, a lot of those things start at 10K, 20K, or even far more, on up. It is the only way you can get around the RAPE TRAIN of the mids that you just mentioned. He probably still buys stuff from the mids too like everyone else, but probably is running on the best tier or one of the best tiers of pricing they have.

-Mike

And you're not going to get into one of those groups by simply providing a copy of your FFL and a business card.

Carl buys guns in large enough quantity that he could be his own buyers groups.

 

[greencobra]

Don't bust the bullets of a LGS over a few bucks. I'm a cheap bastid, but I'd rather deal local for a few dollars more, than travel.

That's just me.

oh, me too.

i love to tell the story of me at four seasons one time and i overhear a customer tell his salesman he came off the cape to buy there to save 13 bucks. jeezus, just time and fuel, there goes the big savings.

i have a reputation at the shops i frequent of walking in, pointing and grunting "i'll take it." no dickering on price. pretty quick i started getting better prices, not a lot, but i think the store appreciated the no hassle sale. of course guns with out of line prices, well, they just stayed in the shelf.

 

[Sterg]

Jesus H, must be inflation. I remember when FS sold Beretta 92s for like $499 cash new in the box.

-Mike

They are even more now. It definitely pays to shop around.

 

[ejl923]

are there any stores that handle small problems with your gun purchase personally? Say, if they have an in house smith and there was a small problem they could fix on site and get you back to the range. I tend to see most shops sell and wipe their hands. From what ive seen, thats the norm and its probably a liability issue. However, like any other product, what im getting at is service after the fact is usually worth some extra dollars.

 

[EJFudd]

Many years ago that may have been true but the big kids like FS try to cut out mids whenever they can, by using buyers' groups.

And you're not going to get into one of those groups by simply providing a copy of your FFL and a business card. Carl buys guns in large enough quantity that he could be his own buyers groups.

Yeah, I kinda doubt that Carl is buying a whole lot from the same wholesalers that your corner gun shop uses. Carl sells more in an hour than the little guys sell in 2 weeks. But that said, despite the tightest budget on NES, I haven't had a need to drive up Rte 128 to see Carl lately. I have done quite well with some of the newer small shops popping up here and there as well as at the shows. In fact, my last purchase from Carl was almost a year and a half ago. That's pretty incredible when you consider that I was visiting Carl more than family in the not so distant past.

 

[spcantwell]

are there any stores that handle small problems with your gun purchase personally? Say, if they have an in house smith and there was a small problem they could fix on site and get you back to the range. I tend to see most shops sell and wipe their hands. From what ive seen, thats the norm and its probably a liability issue. However, like any other product, what im getting at is service after the fact is usually worth some extra dollars.

I can tell you that troy city goes the extra bit, esspicaly for new shooters. If he knows it's your first handgun he won't let you leave with out a mag of carry ammo and showing you how to break it down (I think he even does a quick cleaning with you so you know what to do)

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