Gun Room, Shrewsbury, MA

[Marcus in the Darkus]

I had a bizzare experience at this store in Shrewsbury today.

I walked in and there were two guys behind the counter, one who glared at me the whole time. I told them that I had submitted my Class A License application last week, and that I wanted to look at a few pistols because I plan to make some purchases when my license arrives in a few weeks. I was immediately told that I could not even touch a pistol because it's against store policy for anyone without a license to handle firearms. I said, "You've got to be kidding me."

"Nope, it's against state law." was their response.

Dumbfounded, I said "Well, I've reviewed the Mass regulations and I haven't seen anything like that. It looks like I just wasted a bunch of time coming here."

As I turned to leave the other guy told me I could view the guns through the glass case. I told him "No thanks. I can do that with a magazine or on the web."

I'm 44, clean cut, drive a nice car, etc., so I don't think I looked like I was going to go cyborg on them or anything. There was only one other customer in the store so it's not like they were busy.

Are these guys just dicks or am I out of line for being pissed off?

 

[Admin]

Mark,

Stay clear of that place. I went in there to ask about using them as an FFL for my Service rifle lower. They went on and on about the Assault Weapons Ban, even though my lower was legal, and told me they wouldn't bother attempting it. They are over priced, everybody I've dealt with in there is rude, and their in stock inventory is horrid. Probably the worst gun shop I've ever been to.

BTW welcome to the board.

Derek

 

[Len-2A Training]

They have quite a reputation for spinning yarns, pontificating on imaginary laws, etc.

Best advice is to stay far, far away from the place.

Most gun shops won't let you handle guns without seeing your LTC first. It's so pervasive that I actually thought it was the law until I did a little research. It's probably good policy, given our political climate in MA, and I'll bet that most dealers actually believe that it is the law.

Welcome to the forums.

 

[Lynne]

I never had a problem with any of the stores I went to before I got my LTC. I told them that I hadn't gotten my license as yet, but I was shopping around. They all let me look at everything I asked to see. It's not state law - they were being dickheads. I've heard some nasty stories about them too, and I'm in Haverhill!

BTW - have you found anything that you've decided will be your first one?

 

[FalArAk]

I hate that place.I thought I did a mini write up on it a while ago.Morons behind the counter was the main reason.

I seriously have no idea how shops like this stay in business.

 

[Admin]

I hate that place.I thought I did a mini write up on it a while ago.Morons behind the counter was the main reason.

I seriously have no idea how shops like this stay in business.

That's exaclty what I was wondering. That building there on Route 9 has to be a good sized lease, I don't see how he can move enough inventory. Maybe he uses it to launder money? [twisted]

 

[Lynne]

That's exaclty what I was wondering. That building there on Route 9 has to be a good sized lease, I don't see how he can move enough inventory. Maybe he uses it to launder money? [twisted]

My memory isn't all that great, so I may be off on this, but... I remember hearing about a gun shop out in that direction that got stung pretty good by the state for....something...I can't remember what. It *might* be that shop, and it *might* be that they only cater to the folks they know. I'm not defending them in any way, shape or form, however, if it was them, it might have made them leary in dealing with new faces or folks who don't have a license as yet. I don't know...either way, they won't increase sales. [roll]

 

[Len-2A Training]

IIRC, Lynne is right about this shop.

No, they have always been anal jerks there! THe owner has a handlebar mustache that almost touches his ears.

This was originally Peter Dowd's shop before he sold out back in the 1980s (IIRC). He had a non-compete agreement so he waited until it expired and then opened up where Wal-Mart is on Rte. 9 in Northboro (?).

 

[Marcus in the Darkus]

Thanks for the replies. I posted this story on Sigforum also and the concensus amongst New Englanders seems to be that a lot of places won't let you handle firearms without a license. Two other places local to me (I'm in Southborough) are out of business...Bay State Arms in Southborough = gone; Village Gun Shop in Northborough = sign on window that said closed - semi-retired.

I think I'll do my shopping at Collector's Gallery Firearms in Stoneham. It's a bit of a haul, but that's OK I guess. The owner, Jack Gallagher, is a friend of mine (he married one of my wife's best friends) and he invited me over last Saturday. Very cool store, and a geat bunch of guys hanging around. He let me check out the wares and they didn't treat me like the noob I am. Jack is going to keep an eye out for a Sig P226ST for me, which will probably be my first purchase. He also has some very nice 4-1/4" S&W 1911SC pistols in the scandium frame. I also want to pick up something I can shoot .22LR with so I can develop some proficiency without spending too much on ammo. Probably a Ruger MKII. I really like the looks of the Sig Mosquito but I think it'll be next year before we can buy those here in Mass. I also want to get a S&W .357 magnum 5" barrel. That's all I want...I promise. For now.

Nice board you guys have here. I look forward to reading and posting here and getting to know you guys.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Collectors is a decent place and the new shop is really a neat place. How is Jack's Wife doing? Last I was in there (late Fall/early Winter) she had been in an auto accident and was badly banged up and awaiting some test results regarding her injuries.

Another place to go to (nearby Collector's) is Four Seasons Firearms, 76R (Rear) Winn St., Woburn. Explain your situation and what you are looking for and they will most likely try to help you out.

There is a very short way to get between the two shops. My GPS gets me between them via some side roads into Woburn Square.

 

[Marcus in the Darkus]

How is Jack's Wife doing? Last I was in there (late Fall/early Winter) she had been in an auto accident and was badly banged up and awaiting some test results regarding her injuries.

That was a really nasty accident. Lauren is doing much better. She just started doing acupuncture and says it works better than anything else she's tried. Thanks for asking.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I find them to be very nice people. Lauren was in tremendous pain the day I was in there. I'm glad that she's getting some relief from her injuries.

I might get a chance to stop into both shops next week, as I expect to be serving some legal papers up in Wakefield and that means an obligatory stop at Four Seasons as a minimum. I do try to hit both shops when I have time.

 

[FPrice]

I was immediately told that I could not even touch a pistol because it's against store policy for anyone without a license to handle firearms. I said, "You've got to be kidding me."

I asked my FFL about this and he said that it is not a law but it is a common practise to ask to see a person's license (at least a person who is not known to the FFL) to determine a little bit about them. In just about every store I have been in I have been asked for my license at least until they get to know me by sight. At our local gun show it is pretty much standard practise for the dealer to ask for a license before showing a gun.

We had an example this past Saturday. A slightly scruffy individual came into the shop and began asking about small handguns. Wanted to know what they had that was "small" (he kept using this word). After a few back and forths, my FFL mentioned a particular gun. The guy asked to hande it and my FFL asked for his license. The guy went through the motions of getting something out of his wallet, then said, "I must have forgot it." and left immediately thereafter.

My FFL has been "cased" in the past and had a break-in about two years ago in which they got about 6 guns, all Glocks I think. He knew who did it and finally got the police to check on those guys (my FFL is a former policeman btw).

Now, I am NOTsaying that the guys in Shrewsbury are not Richard Heads. Their general attitude seems to demonstrate this. But, I cannot fault them for asking for a license from someone they don't know. As long as they do it in a polite fashion and can explain that it is their business practise and not BS you about a non-existant law.

As they say, "Tact is the ability to tell a person to go to Hell in such a manner that they actually look forward to the trip.".

 

[FalArAk]

I don't fault the guys at the Gun Room at all.Matter of fact,I have my ltc at the ready position whenever I walk into a gun shop,or a show.

I just can't stand the owners or employees and we need to stop bumping this thread!!!!

 

[dwarven1]

I usually have my LTC ready without asking when I want to look at a gun. Since I've purchased there before, four Seasons (usually) and Richie at Callahan's Firearms (Main Street, Marlboro) don't bother to ask me for it - they know me by sight by now.

As for Gun Room... I bought a Colt Trooper there once. It was before I learned that guns wear out... I just could not seem to get accurate with this gun, and I came to realize that even with the new grips I put on it it was too big for my hands (short fingers). When I went to go sell it, one dealer looked at it and told me he'd give me about $50 for it since it was "shot out". He pointed out that the rifling was mostly worn down, something I'd noticed, but not realizing that that *could* happen, I'd just chalked it up to an optical illusion.

But they never said any thing about it when I bought it at Gun Room. I know, caveat emptor... and I do. I now only buy from stores I trust.

Speaking of local gun stores... there's one in Hudson, Markus, which isn't too far from Southboro - K&R Target Sports. They don't have a huge collection these days, what with the AG's regs, but I trust them. They're good guys there. Although Roy (the owner) is muttering about packing up and moving to Florida, where they welcome gun shops more than they do up here in MA.

Ross

 

[CFFuts]

Gun Room

I'd also recommend you do not shop at the Gun Room in Shrewsbury. They are the largest game in town for most of Worcester County (unless you go to Ware), but they aren't the most knowledgable gun experts and they clearly don't know the MA laws. Case in point: I also had the nightmare experience of buying not one, but two "pre-MA-ban" handguns that weren't really preban. One was an HK USP Compact Stainless in 9mm and the other was a Glock 27. I have also seen other non-MA compliant firearms for sale (especially Glocks) that were taken in as trades but were for sale to non-LEOs.

John told me that the HK was a preban that he had kept in his safe and had just recently found so it was available for sale. Later in July 2004, one of the sales guys pulls me aside and told me it was an illegal sale and asked what I had done with the gun. I told him I traded it to a buddy (who still owns it), but he was concerned the state would want it as evidence. It turns out that the state didn't need the gun for the prosecution and my buddy has never been questioned about the gun.

John sold me the Glock 27 the day Glocks passed the testing component of the MA regulations. While the Glocks passed one half of the regulation, they weren't approved by the AG so the gun couldn't be legally sold. I'm not lying when I say that at least 25 Glocks were sold that morning along with mine. I was one of the few that argued long enough to get a full refund once I realized that Glocks weren't approved for sale.

The bottom line is that you have to be very vigalent if you choose to shop The Gun Room for firearms. The owner is more concerned about revenue vs. the law. It's a shame that Village closed (despite the signs and ads), but I was lucky enough to get an opportunity to move to NH so I took the opportunity and am now in heaven.

 

[CFFuts]

T&G Article referencing

The link has been brought down, but here is the email version of the article that refers to the HK that I purchased at The Gun Room.
_____________________________________

September 01. 2004 12:00AM

Gun store owner faces charges of illegal sales

Jacqueline Reis
T&G STAFF
[email protected]


WESTBORO- The owner of the Gun Room gun store in Shrewsbury was arraigned in Westboro District Court yesterday on charges he sold 10 handguns in 2002 that were not on the state's approved list.

John P. O'Leary, 58, who owns the Gun Room, at 276 Boston Turnpike, Shrewsbury, is charged with 10 counts of being a dealer in the sale of state-noncompliant firearms. He was released on personal recognizance and is scheduled for a pretrial hearing Oct. 19.

Mr. O'Leary's lawyer, Richard Ricker, said the case was in the investigatory stage and that his client has been in business for more than 20 years and has "never had any problems whatsoever."

According to the police report, the state Firearms Record Bureau, which keeps track of firearms licenses and sales, told Shrewsbury police that 10 transactions at the Gun Room involved weapons that were not on the state's list of approved firearms. The director of the Firearms Record Bureau said a distributor had shipped the guns by mistake to the Gun Room and later contacted the store to say the guns could not be sold.

A former manager at the store told police that Mr. O'Leary told him the guns could be sold but later told him they could not. When the former manager asked what he should do about those that had already been sold, Mr. O'Leary said not to worry about them, according to the police report. Shrewsbury police Detective Lt. James J. Hurley said the buyers of the guns "are not the target of any investigation at this point."

"The people who purchased those firearms felt they were acquiring them lawfully," he said. Investigators will consider what to do next after the court decides Mr. O'Leary's case, he said.

The 10 guns were four Ceska Zbrojovka CZ-75s, five Heckler & Koch Universal Self-loading Pistols and one Steyr M, according to the criminal complaint.

 

[Admin]

Thanks for the info CFFuts, and welcome to the board.

I won't defend the Gun-Room, but I think this is what Adolf Riley wants to do. Slowing run every gun store out of business.

 

[CFFuts]

Riley

Hopefully Riley will run for Gov, loose and be out of both the Gov and AG jobs. I wonder who will run for AG after Riley, you have to make sure it doesn't get worse.

Also, I'm a strong believer in supporting Gun Stores (vs. Wallyworld) for shooting gear but I just had too many bad experiences to continue doing business with John. Four Seasons isn't that far away and the customer service is worth the drive.

 

[Admin]

I give Carl as much of my business as I can, the only problem is he's 1.5 hours away from me now.

 

[Dirtypacman]

I give Carl as much of my business as I can, the only problem is he's 1.5 hours away from me now.

I have gotten 2 of my fire-arms from Four Seasons in Woburn!!
Highly recommended!

I also like A+G in Lowell i think

 

[Len-2A Training]

CFF, Thanks for "the rest of the story"!

The FA-10s that John filled out are the only prima fascia evidence needed for a conviction. They don't need the guns, and there is NOTHING (according to MGLs) that they can do to the lawful purchaser of the guns. Even returning the Glock was NOT required by you, and if it were me, I would NOT have done so.

John has spouted off so much mis-information to customers and puffed himself up so big, that I can't feel sorry for him if he falls! That will be one dealer less that will be no loss . . . he can only hurt our cause not help it.

Has there been any disposition of this case yet?

 

[CFFuts]

Gun Room

Apparently the case is still pending. Last I heard, John had another 10 non-compliant guns added to the charges and his lawyer was trying to plea bargain his way out of it. That was about six months ago and I haven't been in since then.

While I'm certainly not a fan of the Gun Room, I'll be disappointed if he does go under. There aren't a lot of gun shops in the area and I'm sure it will continue to get difficult to jump through all the legal hoops if someone wanted to open a new store.

If you frequented the Gun Room, you may have known Phil. He was planning on openning his own store, but was quickly slowed down by all the red tape each town gave him when he introduced his plan.

ETA: yes, I may have been able to keep the Glock, but I didn't want to take any chances. Even if I won in court, I wouldn't want to have to shell out the attorney's fees.

 

[Len-2A Training]

You'd never see court!

Read the law!!

It reads that NO MA DEALER MAY SELL . . .

NOTHING in the law puts ANY restrictions on the buyer. None at all.

Thus, they can't charge you with anything, they can't confiscate the gun (legally) and they aren't interested in you at all.

When they tried to nail 5 dealers some time ago, CHSB gave ONLY the top two sections of the form to the AG's office. They actually redacted the buyer info completely, so the AG didn't know who actually bought the guns. I suspect it was the same way this time.

 

[dvl]

Shouldn't we save the spelling "Riley" for Riley's in New Hampshire? You had me going there for a minute. I've only been to Riley's once, picking up targets and a can of 30.06 but it was a good experience and I'll not hesitate to go back. Bad AG but good gun store.

 

[Lynne]

Bad AG but good gun store.

[lol] [lol]

 

[CFFuts]

MA LAW & AG

LenS: while I've read the law and understand it completely, there are a lot of things that may could have happened that may have resulted in legal fees and/or issues with my licenses.

For example, what if the State requested that I testify about the transaction in the court case against The Gun Room? I have no idea if I can refuse and would have to consult an attorney to at a minimum understand what my options are.

What if my CLEO found out that I was involved in an "illegal gun transaction" (as it could be referred to) and he yanked my LTC or Green Card? As you know, the CLEO can yank it at any time and I don't really have any recourse.

Yes, I agree that I couldn't be put in jail or fined, but it could have caused me some pain and agony that I wanted to avoid at any cost.

 

[Len-2A Training]

We can "what if" ourselves to death, but being overly paranoid isn't really living! Our CLEOs can yank our LTCs if we park overtime at a meter, jaywalk, or park in an HP space (a favorite hobby of too many in my town). You are right, we can all be declared "unsuitable" at any time for any reason.

BUT:

- The AG most probably didn't even have your info when he made his case, so he's not going to call you as a witness. [This based on facts told to me in prior, similar case by Chief Glidden.]

- No need for your testimony when the perp self-incriminates. See the signature at the bottom of your FA-10? His signature is self-incriminating evidence and obviates the need for you to testify against him. He's already "testified" against himself! [lol]

- You apparently are unaware that there are MAJOR turf issues between gov't agencies in LE, they don't talk to one another unless absolutely required, etc. The AG is NOT going to talk to your chief about guns sold illegally, he's going to do his own thing and ignore the "locals".

- If subpoenaed to testify, you MUST show up or you WILL be jailed for contempt of court. I just served two subpoenas yesterday to two unhappy souls who are REQUIRED to travel from the Attleboro area to Salem Superior Court next week to testify in a business lawsuit . . . they are CPAs with knowledge about the alleged transgressions, but are NOT parties to the case. The missed day of work, loss of revenue, etc. is all on them, that is how our court system works. But as I stated above, YOU wouldn't be required to testify since it is totally unnecessary . . . the perp made the case for the state and against himself by signing the FA-10.

- Rest comfortable in the fact that if that particular Glock ever shows up at a crime scene, the BATFE and police may still come knocking on your door. YOU are on the 4473 and FA-10 forever!

 

[dwarven1]

So I was in Shrewsbury getting a walking boot for my somewhat damaged left foot, and I was near the Gun Room, so I figured I'd stop in anyway and look - VERY CAREFULLY - at what they had.

So I walked in, and a guy asked me if he could show me something, and as I started to say that I was looking for an S&W .357, he walks away muttering about needing to find his glasses. Somewhat stunned, I look around, make eye contact with one of the rednecks sitting behind the counter doing nothing... and he turns away and ignores me.

FINALLY I get Jojo's attention and look at a Dan Wesson wearing a 2" barrel. The barrel isn't shot out like the last gun I bought there, but when I tried to dry fire it, I squeezed the trigger... and squeezed the trigger... and FINALLY the hammer drops. I open the cylinder, feeling grit all the way, and hand it back the guy just muttering, "Thanks, but no thanks."

And beat a hasty retreat. I'll try to get to Four Seasons on Thursday or Saturday.

Ross

 

[KMaurer]

Re: MA LAW & AG

What if my CLEO found out that I was involved in an "illegal gun transaction" (as it could be referred to) and he yanked my LTC or Green Card? As you know, the CLEO can yank it at any time and I don't really have any recourse.

OK, you're worried about this astronomically remote possibility. So riddle me this: how does returning guns that you weren't required to change the facts? You were still involved in what you describe as an "illegal gun transaction", so if you've got a chief who's that big a fanatic, nothing has changed in the least. Of course, chiefs who are wound that tightly tend not to give licenses in the first place.

Ken