GOAL's H.1568 An Act Relative to Civil Rights and Public Safety

[Coyote33]

For MA voters....

There is much discussion about the numbers showing up for the committee hearings. While a better showing may be better, keep in mind that it is also equally important to contact your state reps (House, Senate) and weigh in with your 'constituent' view on these bills. I was unable to attend today on such short notice, but I also contact GOAL and my reps in advance of the hearing today, weighing in with my views.

Bottom line, continue by following up with your state reps.

Or like I said, try to get your state reps to go and provide testimony on behalf of GOAL's and the other bills.

...On the turnout --

Less than 40 showed up because there was essentially no notice for the meeting and the only way to find out about it was through NES. It's great we have NES otherwise we'd be really screwed. To really get a standing room only crowd we need a few weeks notice (at least a week) and mobilization of large clubs throughout the state. We need buses just like the left has. People from Western and Central Mass don't like the thought of driving into Boston (I don't mind at all, but I know many who do).

My club has roughly 350 members. If we could send an e-mail blast and get only 5% to show up it would be huge. Repeated state-wide it would be massive. Heck 9% of them should be unemployed anyways and have nothing to do!

... discuss this at my next club meeting and see what we can get setup. I'm sure the anti's will have a session we will need to attend.

On the turnout: So much for "flash mobs". (-;

Excellent idea - let us know how your club reacts. I think I'll mention this to the HSC board, too.

My club would probably not be hugely in favor of "spamming" members. They would say members who want to belong to GOAL already do belong to GOAL, and get their alerts that way. I don't recall, but think I only got one notification last night.

 

[Len-2A Training]

BTW... it lasted about two hours, and NONE of the committee members left during the entire two hours. Not sure why it happened this way, Len... but that's did happen. I stayed for the entire thing.

Len, you're invited over here any time you want to get to the GOAL office. You know that I'm just 5 miles down the road from them.

I just got home from my previous engagement and am catching up.


I am truly shocked that this committee showed such respect to stay for the entire hearing. It really is the first time that I've ever seen or heard about that happening. I'm impressed.

Thanks for the invite Bro. I have been told by other GOAL BOD members that the meetings frequently last until ~11PM and that is something I would never impose on a friend and it makes for a very long day. Whenever I'm in the Northboro area (extremely rare) during the day, I do make a point to stop by GOAL.

This is the first time I've been able to make it, myself. But I wonder how much we're hurting our cause with the small turnouts. I read about some of the things that groups like VCDL accomplishes (Virginia) with large turnouts for their events and wonder what we could do if we could pack the rooms in the state house. Would we be taken more seriously?

In 1999 we had 5000 people show up and it meant nothing to the legistraitors. I agree that a good turnout is useful, but can tell you that the "backroom dealing" is what matters most when it comes to which bills pass and which don't . . . and what they look like coming out of the sausage machine.

 

[FrugalFannie]

... and to suggest that I have no reason to voice myself here because I have not met some requirement to do so, is more than a bit off putting...

I was trying to suggest that writing legislation is a very complicated process and that we should be tolerant of GOAL's mistakes during the draft process. Obviously they care about our input or they wouldn't be posting it here to get our input. I was not trying to suggest you didn't have a right to voice yourself - you absolutely do. Sorry for the misunderstanding caused by my poor writing.

I was also trying to suggest that there are things other than going to the meeting that we can all do such as write or call our legislators or call GOAL with our concerns. I also own a business and I am in a similar situation as you. I am fortunate in that I had the time to attend today (unfortunately that means no appointments - no money).

I realize we all have different obligations and different abilities to support or oppose legislation. Hopefully, each of us will do what we can, when we can to restore our rights fully.

 

[amb]

I am truly shocked that this committee showed such respect to stay for the entire hearing. It really is the first time that I've ever seen or heard about that happening. I'm impressed.

I was also surprised and impressed by Timilty. He seemed interested, engaged, and sympathetic.

That said, these people BS for a living and maybe I misjudged it completely, but I can say for sure that his ass was in that chair the whole time.

 

[wolf223]

a big +1 to all who attended (again). reps inbound over the next couple 24hrs.

 

[HTRN]

Goal, thanks for the hard work. I wish I could have been in mass today to join you.



Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

 

[PaulD]

Had 25 of you armchair quarterbacks gotten off the couch and attended

Bully for you for having everyone's lives and schedules figured out to that degree.

I for one consider 2A issues very important. Unfortunately, as a practical matter, I can't drop my schedule with a few days notice like you can. And while your attendance is productive, your smug judgement isn't.

 

[Blitz1]

Or like I said, try to get your state reps to go and provide testimony on behalf of GOAL's and the other bills.





On the turnout: So much for "flash mobs". (-;




My club would probably not be hugely in favor of "spamming" members. They would say members who want to belong to GOAL already do belong to GOAL, and get their alerts that way. I don't recall, but think I only got one notification last night.

You were there?

 

[Blitz1]

Bully for you for having everyone's lives and schedules figured out to that degree.

I for one consider 2A issues very important. Unfortunately, as a practical matter, I can't drop my schedule with a few days notice like you can. And while your attendance is productive, your smug judgement isn't.

This right here. ^

They gave You a day off Ross (dwarvin1)?

I thought You just started there?

 

[SBR]

Arrested

Ok so here is what im thinking about 125 sec B it
Is not clear enough!!!!!!! How about past arrests????
Its good they got convicted added but if this includes
Past arrest and convictions with out the fedral more than
2 years this is gonna prohib alot more people.
SLUPPERY SPLOPE.

I hopesomeone can clear this up for me cuz the wY
I read it it could mean all arrests PAST and FUTURE

 

[dwarven1]

Nothing was said about eliminating the NEW mandatory minimum jail sentences this pro gun bill adds?

Not that I recall.

Bully for you for having everyone's lives and schedules figured out to that degree.

I for one consider 2A issues very important. Unfortunately, as a practical matter, I can't drop my schedule with a few days notice like you can. And while your attendance is productive, your smug judgement isn't.

It got your attention, didn't it? I can live with disapproval if it gets someone so annoyed that they decide to attend to "show me up".

As I pointed out, this is the first time I've been able to do so. I'm ashamed that it took me so long.

This right here. ^

They gave You a day off Ross (dwarvin1)?

I thought You just started there?

Company gives us our birthday off, but we have to take that day off within a month of the actual day. So I used 1/2 of that day for this purpose.

 

[Coyote33]

I was also surprised and impressed by Timilty. He seemed interested, engaged, and sympathetic.

That said, these people BS for a living and maybe I misjudged it completely, but I can say for sure that his ass was in that chair the whole time.

I think you misjudged. I thought the same thing last time. Fooled me once. This is why I said they were on notice and the newbies were off the hook. He didn't seem pleased to hear that.



The two guys on the far right (Viere and someone) were pretty open minded to our cause and to change. Viera said, "I will do what I can, but I'm a freshman on this committee." I said so others on the committee could hear "There will be a lot more freshmen next year if they don't start acting." I also gave each of them and the woman a gun laws poster (free from the bookstore downstairs). I also submitted language to add to the poster the other half of the gun laws.

 

[Bob P]

It got your attention, didn't it? I can live with disapproval if it gets someone so annoyed that they decide to "show me up".

Actually motivational studies have shown that kind of behavior is more likely to cause people to stay away. Shaming only works when there is a close relationship between the parties and even then is often counterproductive due to the hard feelings it creates.

 

[Gonzo]

Politics is a poison to men's souls.

 

[dwarven1]

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.


Not my words, of course, but still appropriate even today.

 

[Gonzo]

Really dude? Your toes are freezing off in Valley Forge, your best friend's dead, you have no idea if your family is still alive, you're starving, and you haven't been paid in 3 months?

 

[cekim]

Politics is a poison to men's souls.

This...

It's a choice to die slowly of poison rather than quickly because of war.

 

[Bob P]

Really dude? Your toes are freezing off in Valley Forge, your best friend's dead, you have no idea if your family is still alive, you're starving, and you haven't been paid in 3 months?

Paine didn't either. He spent the Revolution pissing off the Congressional Committee and chasing tail in France and trying to keep Washington from getting paid for his services while setting up a bank that made him rich.

 

[richc]

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.


Not my words, of course, but still appropriate even today.

Dwarven, your snotty behavior in this thread reminded me of the following:



Get off your high horse and stop preaching. You have no right to do so.

Rich

 

[cekim]

Paine didn't either. He spent the Revolution pissing off the Congressional Committee and chasing tail in France and trying to keep Washington from getting paid for his services while setting up a bank that made him rich.

If go-time ever comes again, I want that job...

 

[lord1234]

The two guys on the far right (Viere and someone) were pretty open minded to our cause and to change. Viera said, "I will do what I can, but I'm a freshman on this committee." I said so others on the committee could hear "There will be a lot more freshmen next year if they don't start acting." I also gave each of them and the woman a gun laws poster (free from the bookstore downstairs). I also submitted language to add to the poster the other half of the gun laws.

Were you the guy with the posters? I was wondering wtf you were doing. But had to bail before I could see your discussion.

 

[cekim]

Were you the guy with the posters? I was wondering wtf you were doing. But had to bail before I could see your discussion.

That was funny/sad, but good. He was pointing out the sheer volume of stupidity that is the gun laws as well as their failure to satisfy the requirements of the law and make them available (and/or update them as required by the law).

Perhaps we should start each of these sessions with an english-to-legislature lesson focusing on 4 words:
shall
not
be
infringed

 

[Gonzo]

Paine didn't either. He spent the Revolution pissing off the Congressional Committee and chasing tail in France and trying to keep Washington from getting paid for his services while setting up a bank that made him rich.

War is hell.

 

[cekim]

The committee does seem to love props and hand-outs...

I'll bring hard candy and a stack of paper to make my point next time.

 

[FrugalFannie]

The committee does seem to love props and hand-outs...

I'll bring hard candy and a stack of paper to make my point next time.

As I said before, I wish I had been more prepared. I will be next time. You did a fantastic job Mike!

 

[cekim]

As I said before, I wish I had been more prepared. I will be next time. You did a fantastic job Mike!

As did I, just didn't have time to do the leg work to say the same thing off-the-cuff...

Thank you...

 

[PaulD]

It got your attention, didn't it? I can live with disapproval if it gets someone so annoyed that they decide to attend to "show me up".

For me, showing up will be a function of my personal and professional schedule. For better or worse, practicality dictates this. You won't factor into the decision. Further, you should really direct your ire at the politicians that scheduled this with insufficient notice, instead of blaming the constituents.

On any given week, I generally do have more flexibility than most people and I will attend one of these hearings. Unfortunately, there are times when I, and most people, have commitments from 9 to 5 on weekdays that they can't cast aside that easily.

I do appreciate the effort from you and the others who did show up, but I wouldn't cast judgment so easily on those that couldn't.

 

[cekim]

For me, showing up will be a function of my personal and professional schedule. For better or worse, practicality dictates this. You won't factor into the decision.

You should really direct your ire at the politicians that scheduled this with insufficient notice instead of blaming the constituents.

On any given week, I generally do have more flexibility than most people and I will attend one of these hearings. Unfortunately, there are times when I, and most people, have commitments from 9 to 5 on weekdays that they can't cast aside that easily.

I do appreciate the effort from you and the others who did show up, but I wouldn't cast judgment so easily on those that couldn't.

Paul, as I said previously, I won't presume to tell any one person what their schedule is or ability, on a week's notice to change it might be, I think the broader concern is that people as a whole are cowed (perhaps sheeped?) by this process and the people in political office.

They are intimidated by public speaking (as am I), afraid of the unknown and whether they want to admit it or not, likely intimidated by the politicians themselves.

I am sure there are people who would have to risk being fired to be there, but I am equally sure there are dozens of people on NES who weren't there who made up excuses to deal with the issues I mentioned above.

What will I say?
Will I look stupid?
Will people critique what I say or how I say it?
and so on...

That's what we need to get past.

These people have veto power over your freedom. If we don't hold them in check, they will take it.

 

[PaulD]

Paul, as I said previously, I won't presume to tell any one person what their schedule is or ability, on a week's notice to change it might be, I think the broader concern is that people as a whole are cowed (perhaps sheeped?) by this process and the people in political office.

They are intimidated by public speaking, afraid of the unknown and whether they want to admit it or not, likely intimidated by the politicians themselves.

I am sure there are people who would have to risk being fired to be there, but I am equally sure there are dozens of people on NES who weren't there who made up excuses to deal with the issues I mentioned above.

What will I say?
Will I look stupid?
Will people critique what I say or how I say it?
and so on...

That's what we need to get past.

These people have veto power over your freedom. If we don't hold them in check, they will take it.

Those are good points though I hope you're incorrect on that assumption. Simply having people be there shows something and that's what I assumed you and Ross were asking for, primarily at least. In some sense, we're probably all cowed to a degree by our daily lives and I tend to think that's the bigger issue with attendance.

As for speaking in a meeting like that, I'd have no problem stating my opinions as I know I'm smarter than the politicians trying to fight pro-2A legislation. Of course, I'm also an a**h***.

 

[Madball13]

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.


Not my words, of course, but still appropriate even today.

Dude, you joined NES in 2005, have 22,725 posts, member of GOAL and ran for a board seat, your a NRA certified instructor, red cap in the apple dumpling gang after all this you've only been to one hearing about 2A issues and you think that gives you the right to lecture the rest of us and shed your own sunshine patriot status? Your participation in this discussion is detrimental to the cause.