Glock? Am I stupid

[Ham Slam]

All right my hope is to someday answer this question because I have found no logical answer. I don’t know if it’s me, so like I said I might be stupid.


Why do Glocks have a safety on the trigger? My feeling is that if there is force that is strong enough to directly push the trigger safety down, then wouldn’t it push down the trigger as well, and discharge the firearm.

Please help me on my quest to find this answer.

 

[TonyD]

I can't answer this with any authority but I believe the biggest reason was to aid in eliminating AD's from an angled strike or pressure from an angle on the trigger. Someone else may have a more definitive answer.

 

[Duck Hunt]

The part circle in yellow is the "trigger safety" the trigger WILL not move forward UNLESS this part is pushed in. Its a thin piece inside the trigger that is spring returned, there for any force you apply hitting the gun doesn't acuate the trigger safety.

If you try to push the trigger back without pushing the trigger safety it won't move because the end nub (circled in red) of the trigger safety presses firmly against the trigger frame.

Glock made this so that you could carry it with a round chamber and not have to worry about on/offing a safetly OR accidental discharges when your safety is off.

There is also a trigger pin safety that does not allow the trigger pin to hit the round unless the trigger is fully depressed.

Sean

PS - "Am I stupid?" Is a loaded question...

 

[Duck Hunt]

The part circled in RED is the trigger pin safety. When its NOT depressed the pin won't move forward towards the chamber round.

The part circled in yellow is the pin safety actuator, when the trigger is pulled it presses UP on the pin safety letting the pin slam forward onto the chambered round.

Sean

 

[SiameseRat]

The part circle in yellow is the "trigger safety" the trigger WILL not move forward UNLESS this part is pushed in. Its a thin piece inside the trigger that is spring returned, there for any force you apply hitting the gun doesn't acuate the trigger safety.

If you try to push the trigger back without pushing the trigger safety it won't move because the end nub (circled in red) of the trigger safety presses firmly against the trigger frame.

Glock made this so that you could carry it with a round chamber and not have to worry about on/offing a safetly OR accidental discharges when your safety is off.

There is also a trigger pin safety that does not allow the trigger pin to hit the round unless the trigger is fully depressed.

Sean

PS - "Am I stupid?" Is a loaded question...

Has there ever been a study done to see if there have been accidental firings on Glocks?

I have a G17 and looking at it now, say if I were a complete idiot and I was carring it loaded but unholstered in my cargo pants pocket or heck, I'm a girl, what if I had it in my pocketbook (which is funny, I'm such a tomboy I don't own a pocketbook but I digress) and something were to get in there by the trigger, like keys or a pen or lipstick etc. couldn't that fire the gun? I dunno, is it as effective as an actual on/off switch?

And at this point I add- I'm just curious. Wondering for arguments sake which is better, a switch or the trigger safety?

 

[Duck Hunt]

Well, I haven't seen any studies about it, beig new to shooting and all.

BUT, I'm not new to triggers. I play paintball like a religion and now adays they high tech guns around now have VERY light trigger pulls. 1 ounce and 1mm pulls!

The Glock has if I recall correctly...a 5 pound trigger pull, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a pen, lipstick tampon of other to pull it

But like I said, I haven't SEEN and studies on it...time to hit google!

Sean

 

[Ham Slam]

All of which could happen if there was a force pressing down on the trigger, not necessarily a human finger. I guess it decreases the likelihood of a snag, but that’s it. It just decreases the likelihood of an AD due to a snag.

I’m not trying to be wise I just don’t understand it, and even though your answer was extremely though, I just still don’t understand it.

 

[Duck Hunt]

If something can get caught in the trigger gaurd of a Glock and exert 5 pounds of force on it, then yes, it WILL fire.

Which is the same with most other handguns with "external" safeties. A 1911's trigger safety is really just a button, where in a handbag or pocket etc, could be much more easily "accidentally" switched off than a Glock trigger.

I searched Google for a little bit and found that most reports about AD's and Glocks are people not being used to the trigger. Guns are usually unsafe when the handler is being unsafe.

As far as WHY they made it that way..well, I can't really say. In my opinion I'd rather carry a loaded Glock in a holster than a loaded 1911 where I's have to turn off the trigger safety AND slide safety in order to fire my weapon.

Sean


EDIT - Heres a really good article about Glocks and AD's: http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...stnews2.pdf+accidental+discharges+glock&hl=en

 

[Len-2A Training]

I am not a Glock owner/shooter, but I offer the following for thought:

- I am aware of multiple incidents where a Glock owner had a ND, some with injuries and others were lucky.

- I have personally had a few incidents that WOULD have caused a Glock to fire (ND), but since I was using a different gun, I was lucky.

- I have met someone who was badly injured by a ND with a Glock. We talked at length about the incident. His Glock fell off the shooting bench and as a natural reaction, he reached for it. He did grab the gun mid-air, unfortunately by the trigger guard and launched a round thru his lower jaw. A number of surgeries and many years later, he was able to tell me his story.

- If you are shooting from the holster many times over a few hours, you will find that your shirt/blouse will start to come somewhat loose from your slacks. I found that a few times I had some fabric being stuffed into the holster as I re-holstered the gun. This has been known to set off a Glock in more than a few cases. MANY Glocks are modified to have ~3# triggers, and yes, pulling such a gun out of a purse if keys are sticking thru the trigger guard is very likely to set off an ND.

- The most common ND with Glocks is re-holstering with the trigger finger in the trigger guard! If you follow the rule to NEVER put your finger in the trigger guard until you have your sights on your target, this won't happen. However, many don't seem to understand this rule until such time as they "dig a canal" in their leg!

 

[AZMLII]

(Len and Duck Hunt said part of this before I finished writing up this post, but I’ll post it anyway, since I went to the trouble of writing it up.)

The purpose of the trigger safety on Glock pistols is not to prevent the pistol from discharging if the trigger is pressed, intentionally or unintentionally. The intent of the three safeties on the Glock is to help prevent unintended discharges, if the trigger is not pressed (i.e. if the pistol is dropped.)(http://www.glock.com/_safe_action_.htm)

In this regard, Glock pistols are like other handguns that have only passive safeties, such as the Sig P series pistols, and most pre-internal lock revolvers.

The goal is to make a tool that can be brought into use quickly, while helping to prevent unintentional discharges.

To paraphrase the NRA, safeties are mechanical devices designed to help prevent unintentional discharges.

Like the ’74 duster I owned as a teenager, which was also a mechanical device, they can fail. That’s why we use the safety between our ears, follow Jeff Cooper’s 4 (or the NRA’s three basic safety rules), and use common sense.

If you carry a pistol, you need to make sure the trigger guard is protected (i.e. carrying it in a holster, sheath, case, etc, to keep things out of the trigger guard.)

This applies even if you use a handgun with manual safeties.

Best Regards,
Patrick

 

[Lynne]

Hey AZMLII,

Love the signature line.

Hubby and I bought each other hand guns for Valentines Day one year. That's how I knew he really loved me.

 

[Ham Slam]

I hear yeah Duck Hunt. The best safety is between the ears. I carry a sig P220 45, which has no external safeties.

Keep on thinking about this for about a week and you’ll start to drive yourself crazy. I swear the more you think about it, the less sense it makes.

 

[Lynne]

I don't remember the specifics, or where it happened (Salem, NH I think???), but I remember hearing about a LEO who's Glock had an AD while putting some one in the cruiser. I think it was about 7 or 8 months ago...I can't remember exactly. I didn't hear why it went off, or what he was doing when it did go off.

 

[AZMLII]

Hello, Lynne:

My Fianceé slipped that into my profine while I wasn't looking. However, it's true. I bought her a S&W 686P as a wedding gift, and she recently bought a Glock 21 for me as a wedding gift.

It's true love.

Best Regards,
Patrick

 

[Lynne]

Hello, Lynne:

My Fianceé slipped that into my profine while I wasn't looking. However, it's true. I bought her a S&W 686P as a wedding gift, and she recently bought a Glock 21 for me as a wedding gift.

It's true love.

Best Regards,
Patrick

Good heavens, man, she's definately a keeper!! [lol] [lol]

 

[TonyD]

Glock manufactured a firearm that could be employed into combat with the least amount of manipulations. A semi automatic with the simplicty of a revolver. The trigger safety is simply a device that will not allow the firearm to discharge unless there is pressure directed exactly perpendiculer to the trigger. It is not infallable and any weapon will discharge if there is appropriate pressure applied to the trigger and all safeties are defeated.

ND's are NOT sufficent evidence to discount a particular design. None of the revolvers I've owned and carried had ANY type of safety except keeping my damn finger, and any foriegn obstacles out of the trigger guard.

 

[SiameseRat]

Hello, Lynne:

My Fianceé slipped that into my profine while I wasn't looking. However, it's true. I bought her a S&W 686P as a wedding gift, and she recently bought a Glock 21 for me as a wedding gift.

It's true love.

Best Regards,
Patrick

Good heavens, man, she's definately a keeper!! [lol] [lol]

Lynne- I tell him that every morning when he wakes up with no covers and 6 inches of bed

 

[SiameseRat]

Glock manufactured a firearm that could be employed into combat with the least amount of manipulations. A semi automatic with the simplicty of a revolver. The trigger safety is simply a device that will not allow the firearm to discharge unless there is pressure directed exactly perpendiculer to the trigger. It is not infallable and any weapon will discharge if there is appropriate pressure applied to the trigger and all safeties are defeated.

ND's are NOT sufficent evidence to discount a particular design. None of the revolvers I've owned and carried had ANY type of safety except keeping my damn finger, and any foriegn obstacles out of the trigger guard.

Ok so we can agree that keeping anything other than your on-purpose finger out of the trigger area is the only way to prevent ADs however, don't most revolvers have heavier trigger pulls, therefore making an AD less likely with a loose revolver than a loose glock?
I don't know why I need to know the answer to this, but I do.

 

[TonyD]

Glock manufactured a firearm that could be employed into combat with the least amount of manipulations. A semi automatic with the simplicty of a revolver. The trigger safety is simply a device that will not allow the firearm to discharge unless there is pressure directed exactly perpendiculer to the trigger. It is not infallable and any weapon will discharge if there is appropriate pressure applied to the trigger and all safeties are defeated.

ND's are NOT sufficent evidence to discount a particular design. None of the revolvers I've owned and carried had ANY type of safety except keeping my damn finger, and any foriegn obstacles out of the trigger guard.

Ok so we can agree that keeping anything other than your on-purpose finger out of the trigger area is the only way to prevent ADs however, don't most revolvers have heavier trigger pulls, therefore making an AD less likely with a loose revolver than a loose glock?
I don't know why I need to know the answer to this, but I do.

Not necessarily heavier, but usually a longer pull. I believe this is one of the reasons Glock added the trigger safety. It enabled it to take a little 'knocking around' without activating the trigger unless it was more deliberate. The fact is, you have to have control of your firearm or shit will happen. I don't buy into discredidation because someone dropped their weapon and in the process of fumbling for recovery, shot themselves. That is Negligent, not accidental.

 

[AZMLII]

Yes, most revolvers do have trigger pulls greater than a Glock, especially, ones sold in Massachusetts. Also, Sigs sold in this state have a pretty heavy trigger pull, when firing DA.

However, which to you prefer shooting more, and shoot better, your Glock 17 or you S&W 686P?

Also, Glock does make trigger springs with a pull greater than 5 lbs, pistols sold in some states utilize these, as the ones recently sold in Massachusetts did (that was before the A.G. decided they did not comply with his regualtions.)

 

[TonyD]

The weights I'm aware of is 7, 5.5, and 3#'s. I would never have a 3# trigger pull on a Glock. Mine is 5.5. Sig. actually took a page out Glock's play book by not having a manual safety.

There are no free lunches. Every firearm has its idiosyncrocy's and the important part is to be familiar and comfortable with the weapon you choose. Know it's advantages and its limitations and train accordingly.

 

[Lynne]

There are no free lunches. Every firearm has its idiosyncrocy's and the important part is to be familiar and comfortable with the weapon you choose. Know it's advantages and its limitations and train accordingly.

Amen. Know your firearm and how it reacts.

 

[racer934]

I am curious...

Are there any supporting stats that would compare ND rates within the LE community prior to the widespread adoption of semi-autos and after?

 

[TonyD]

I am curious...

Are there any supporting stats that would compare ND rates within the LE community prior to the widespread adoption of semi-autos and after?

I've no clue but I have a story of a deputy I worked with that the sheriff made a medal out of the slug taken out of his leg that he had to wear on his uniform for year.

 

[TonyD]

However, which to you prefer shooting more, and shoot better, your Glock 17 or you S&W 686P?

Well, I have a 19. Actually, a 1989 Secret Service Presidential Inauguaral model. Means nothing other than the markings on the slide.

I don't, and won't, own a Smith semi. I do own an HK USP. I believe that HK produces one of the finest fireams made. However, they too have functions I disapprove of.

And, because of that fact, my Glock gets the range time, carry time, and the firearm I use in IDPA.

 

[KMaurer]

So my G27 has a light trigger and no manual safety. Neither did the 1911 that I carried cocked and unlocked for close to 20 years. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you want to stop something bad that's about to happen, and nothing bad will happen.

Ken

 

[Len-2A Training]

Tony, I NEVER used AD in my post. All examples I posted I properly categorized as "NDs"!

I also carry a Walther P99 which also has no manual safety. It does have a decocker however. My other carry gun is the 1911, cocked and locked.

Even the pre-1998 revolvers that I have have relatively heavy triggers. I'd guess probably ~12# and a very long pull. Most folks have relatively light triggers on their carry Glocks. Even in MA, the owner or a gunsmith can put whatever trigger you want on it (legally) . . . only when it is sold by an FFL does the state-approved heavy trigger come into play (and I'm not sure it applies for used gun sales).

The only real safety is between the ears, I agree whole-heartedly with that statement.

 

[Lynne]

Tony, I NEVER used AD in my post. All examples I posted I properly categorized as "NDs"!

How about "unplanned pops"?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Lynne, not an "unplanned pop" when it rips a channel in someone's leg!

 

[Adam_MA]

Sorry to be ignorant, but what does "ND" stand for?

Thanks
Adam