Getting a gift from out of state

[TonyDedo]

My father, who lives in California, wants to give me a firearm as a gift. The firearm is a handgun that is not on The Lists. Because I still have a CA license and address (my father's), under California law he can legally transfer a firearm to his child without much hassle (simple registration form, no broker or dealer involvement necessary).

My question is, once it's in my possession in California, can I get it into Massachusetts (and how)? If I already owned it before I moved here, I believe I could have just brought it with me and registered it here (after I obtained a MA resident LTC). But since I moved here first, and it was transferred into my possession after the fact, can I still bring it in?

-C

 

[vellnueve]

No. You'd have to find an FFL willing to do the transfer and face the penalties. You're screwed. If you do it the way you are suggesting, you are performing a person to person interstate transfer which is illegal. This is assuming you are a Mass resident.

Don't you love Tom Reilly?

 

[KMaurer]

No. You'd have to find an FFL willing to do the transfer and face the penalties. You're screwed. If you do it the way you are suggesting, you are performing a person to person interstate transfer which is illegal. This is assuming you are a Mass resident.

Don't you love Tom Reilly?

You'd be in pretty much the same boat of the guns were at your father's house in New Hampshire and you were in your new home in Idaho. The fatwa against interstate handgun sales comes from grand Ayatollahs in DC, not those on Beacon Hill.

OTOH, are you sure your father didn't transfer the guns to you before you moved? Is there any sort of state paperwork that would have been required or other evidence that could show that he didn't do it then?

Ken

 

[TonyDedo]

I might be wrong on the date - he may have transfered them to me before I moved. What are the guidelines for bringing a firearm into the state with you when you move? Is there a timeframe in which you must move and register your guns? I moved two years ago, and I got my LTC 9 months ago.

You'd be in pretty much the same boat of the guns were at your father's house in New Hampshire and you were in your new home in Idaho. The fatwa against interstate handgun sales comes from grand Ayatollahs in DC, not those on Beacon Hill.

OTOH, are you sure your father didn't transfer the guns to you before you moved? Is there any sort of state paperwork that would have been required or other evidence that could show that he didn't do it then?

Ken

 

[drgrant]

I might be wrong on the date - he may have transfered them to me before I moved. What are the guidelines for bringing a firearm into the state with you when you move? Is there a timeframe in which you must move and register your guns? I moved two years ago, and I got my LTC 9 months ago.

You don't have to register anything when you move into
MA. This problem really is more of a question of federal law
than anything else... and IIRC, the gift exemption only works if
the giver and receiver are same-state residents at the time that
the gift is given. Otherwise if the residencies differ, then it must
go through an FFL.

-Mike

 

[vellnueve]

if brought with you at the time you move, registration is not required. If brought in (but previously owned beforehand) after you move in, FA10 registration is required.

 

[vellnueve]

You'd be in pretty much the same boat of the guns were at your father's house in New Hampshire and you were in your new home in Idaho. The fatwa against interstate handgun sales comes from grand Ayatollahs in DC, not those on Beacon Hill.

I was referring to him not being able to have them transferred through an FFL due to the AG regs, not the interstate transfer regs.

 

[Len-2A Training]

. . .

 

[TonyDedo]

okay, perhaps I need a bit of clarification - for purposes of these laws, what is the definition of "resident of a state?" In my case, I have a driver's license, address and firearms permit in both California and Massachusetts. I spend the majority of my nights in Massachusetts, but there's nothing on paper to document that. What decides what state I'm officially a resident of?

 

[Len-2A Training]

. . .

 

[TonyDedo]

The position of the MCOPA is that wherever you vote, have a DL and pay your Fed taxes from is your state of residence.

The Feds have a different view of this.

I vote in CA, have a DL in both states, and pay MA taxes...

 

[Len-2A Training]

. . .

 

[TonyDedo]

Well, I mean I file a MA1 (resident's) tax return, as opposed to a non-resident return. My MA address is on my Federal and State tax return, and I don't file a CA return anymore.

 

[Scrivener]

Well, I mean I file a MA1 (resident's) tax return, as opposed to a non-resident return. My MA address is on my Federal and State tax return, and I don't file a CA return anymore.

Then what possible premise is there for your claiming to be a CA resident for voting purposes?

And I'm looking forward to a discourse on how the Federal definition of "residency" differs from that ascribed to Massachusetts...

 

[JackO]

Here is a possible solution for this "non MA complaint" gun. Don't transfer it, just borrow it from your father, and since no transfer of ownership happened, you are completely legal to keep it for a long, long time, until your father requests it back

 

[KMaurer]

The position of the MCOPA is that wherever you vote, have a DL and pay your Fed taxes from is your state of residence.

The Feds have a different view of this.

And the fact that MCOPA assumes that all three of these criteria point to the same state might indicate that they really don't have a firm grasp on the issue.

Here's BATFE's take on it:

(B11) What constitutes residency in a State?

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States”, in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]

Ken

 

[vellnueve]

On a side note, you probably don't want to mention that you may be a resident of two states to Watertown PD. I could easily see an antigun CLEO revoking a license.

 

[Scrivener]

From BATFE:

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State.

From the OP:

Well, I mean I file a MA1 (resident's) tax return, as opposed to a non-resident return. My MA address is on my Federal and State tax return, and I don't file a CA returnanymore.

Thus bringing us to the recurring question, what possible legal premise is there for this (belated) claim of dual residency?

 

[Cross-X]

Thus bringing us to the recurring question, what possible legal premise is there for this (belated) claim of dual residency?

Maybe 'cause it's really cool to claim that you live here, but you are also a resident of wacky California.

 

[KMaurer]

If you read the original post carefully, I don't think you'll find any "claim of dual residency", merely and inquiry as to how the concept of residency is supposed to apply to firearm laws. It's hardly unusual that someone might be confused on this question, particularly since nobody here has managed to give documented, objective criteria for answering the question. Neither taxes, nor drivers license nor voting provide a either a conclusive or mutually consistent answer. Even BATFE eschews using physical presence for a defined period of time, voting, property ownership or other objective criteria, instead falling back on the old "I may not be able to define it, but I recognize it when I see it" approach.

Ken

 

[Scrivener]

If you read the original post carefully, I don't think you'll find any "claim of dual residency", merely and inquiry as to how the concept of residency is supposed to apply to firearm laws.

From the OP:

Because I still have a CA license and address (my father's), under California law he can legally transfer a firearm to his child without much hassle (simple registration form, no broker or dealer involvement necessary).

And this admission:

I vote in CA, have a DL in both states, and pay MA taxes...

How does one vote in a state in which one is not (ostensibly) a resident?

How does one lawfully conduct a personal transfer between parties who are NOT residents of the same state?

I stand by my assertion of the OP claiming dual residency accordingly.

 

[MikeD]

How does one vote in a state in which one is not (ostensibly) a resident?

Same way they do in Mass. I've never been asked to produce an ID when I go to vote...they just ask for my address and no further proof that I'm really who I say I am.

 

[Cross-X]

How does one vote in a state in which one is not (ostensibly) a resident?

Same way they do in Mass. I've never been asked to produce an ID when I go to vote...they just ask for my address and no further proof that I'm really who I say I am.

Ahh, that's right -- vote like an old Bostonian!

 

[Scrivener]

Same way they do in Mass. I've never been asked to produce an ID when I go to vote...they just ask for my address and no further proof that I'm really who I say I am.

In order to vote, one must register. It is at that point which residency is generally ascertained.

If your town is like mine, the clerks know you anyway.

 

[KMaurer]

How does one vote in a state in which one is not (ostensibly) a resident?

How does one lawfully conduct a personal transfer between parties who are NOT residents of the same state?

I stand by my assertion of the OP claiming dual residency accordingly.

Flash legal update: being a resident of a state for voting purposes, for state income tax purposes, for obtaining a drivers license, and for firearm licensing purchases are four distinct issues which don't always result in the same answer. Being a resident for one purpose doesn't necessarily provide any information about the answer to any of the others. Since I won't insult you by suggesting you don't know this perfectly well, I'll ignore the first question as the rhetorical distraction that it is.

As to the second, I don't recall anyone suggesting that it is legal. If they assumed that it was, they most likely wouldn't have bothered to ask. Stand by your claim all that you want, but I seriously doubt that many of the readers (i.e., the jury) will buy the argument that asking for clarification about an issue on which one is uncertain constitutes making a claim with regard to that subject. (OTOH, if they did, then they might me afraid to ask any more questions, which seems to be one of the recurring leitmotifs of your responses to questions.)

Ken

 

[GSG]

Could a Mass. resident legally do what JackO suggested, borrow an out of state gun? It seems like that would have been thought of by BATFE already.

 

[drgrant]

Could a Mass. resident legally do what JackO suggested, borrow an out of state gun? It seems like that would have been thought of by BATFE already.

BATFE doesn't care about people who aren't prohibited persons
borrowing one anothers guns; they only care about transfers, e.g.,
transfer of -ownership- of said items; eg, selling something to
someone, or buying something from someone else.

Of course, as the lawyers will probably tell you, there is a fine
line between "borrowing" and "ownership".... it's certainly
plausible that, someone could loan something to someone
indefinitely however. There are a lot of grey nuances involving
this... EG; then on the state side.... "If I am borrowing my
friend's pistol, who lives in NH, do I need to file an FA-10? Is there
a difference as to whether I am borrowing it for 3 weeks or 9
months? " Whenever a question like that is asked, you'll get
different answers. Sometimes the answer isn't "right" or "wrong"
it's just the "most likely right"... because the real answer will only
ever be hashed out by a court; or may appear in case law.

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

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