Garand rear sight knobs not moving independently

[daekken]

So, I took the CMP FG Special out for the first time. I came up 8 clicks and then I noticed that the elevation and windage knobs were not moving independently.

Starting as low as possible on elevation, you can go up about six clicks before it starts moving the windage knob simultaneously. Similarly, after that point, if you move the windage knob left (if I recall) it also rotates the elevation knob and moves the aperture vertically.

I ran three en blocs trying to see if I could get a happy medium, but I wasn't successful. I tried to move them every which way with no success.

So, how can I fix the sights?

At least I got to shoot another K98 and collected a zillion brass cases for my troubles. I can always use my SG for the June match if I can't get this squared away.

 

[mac1911]

First off you just got this from CMP I would call customer service first thing in the AM.
Then go from there.

Other than that with out really knowing the best way to describe it it sounds like your elevation pinion flats are not lined up right?

 

[daekken]

Yeah I might contact customer service. I was only able to find one thread somewhere about a guy having the same problem, he said cranking elevation to the max and then back down fixed it. He then disassembled the rear sight and didn't see anything amiss. It's really weird.

The elevation will only go up 11 clicks, then it stops and won't go any higher. The windage knob barely seems to work but will move the elevation knob down.

 

[majspud]

You can always take it apart, clean it, re-grease it, and put it back together while looking for any obvious problems.

t

 

[daekken]

You can always take it apart, clean it, re-grease it, and put it back together while looking for any obvious problems.

t

they will have to be very obvious problems, as I have never done it before; and it looks a little complicated

 

[majspud]

I've done it. Its not that bad. I used to be afraid of a K98 bolt. Last year I detailed stripped my Danish Winchester M1 Garand and replaced half a dozen parts with Winchester made ones. I then shot the rifle once, and on the second time qualified with it at my club's 200 yard range. Just follow the step by step directions off the CMP website.

t

 

[daekken]

I've done it. Its not that bad. I used to be afraid of a K98 bolt. Last year I detailed stripped my Danish Winchester M1 Garand and replaced half a dozen parts with Winchester made ones. I then shot the rifle once, and on the second time qualified with it at my club's 200 yard range. Just follow the step by step directions off the CMP website.

t

Yes, I imagine no matter what CMP might say, I will end up doing it. I can't imagine they will want me to send it back or anything. Not a bad thing to know. Like most firearms stuff once you do it a couple of times it becomes easy. Definitely through a wrench in the plans but the K98 helped make up for it. Craving one of those too now....

 

[dw617]

.

 

[mac1911]

Yes, I imagine no matter what CMP might say, I will end up doing it. I can't imagine they will want me to send it back or anything. Not a bad thing to know. Like most firearms stuff once you do it a couple of times it becomes easy. Definitely through a wrench in the plans but the K98 helped make up for it. Craving one of those too now....

CMP has sent me new parts and or paid return labels for some of my problems most often CS has put me in contact with a armoror .....which was nice to have someone to talk to.
JCG made it very easy for any GI with a M10 tool and a bullet tip to service a M1 short of some barrel change.

So you should do what CMP owners manual says
Detail strip and inspect
http://civilianmarksmanship.com/detailstrip.html

 

[daekken]

It is something good to learn, I will give it a try when I have time. I don't have an M10 combo tool, will a regular screwdriver suffice?

 

[76Too]

it's actually REALLY simple. I had an issue where the big flathead screw on my elevation know kept backing out a month ago (actually did it again at the last match)...you tube and chill and I had it apart, greased with mobil 1 high temp bearing grease (the red stuff is all i use on my garands) and back together in 20 minutes. if I can do it...

- - - Updated - - -

It is something good to learn, I will give it a try when I have time. I don't have an M10 combo tool, will a regular screwdriver suffice?

yes...just be sure to hold the windage knob when you're tightening back up so you don't lose your setting. also, be sure to count the clicks to bottom out the sight so you can get back close to your zero when you put it back together.

 

[dhuze]

Can you move the peep up and down without the adjustment screws? If so it's the cover spring. It could just not be assembled correctly. It's not as hard as you think to take it apart.

Use the CMP's tutorial.

http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/striphtml/detailstripsightone.html

 

[daekken]

it's actually REALLY simple. I had an issue where the big flathead screw on my elevation know kept backing out a month ago (actually did it again at the last match)...you tube and chill and I had it apart, greased with mobil 1 high temp bearing grease (the red stuff is all i use on my garands) and back together in 20 minutes. if I can do it...

- - - Updated - - -



yes...just be sure to hold the windage knob when you're tightening back up so you don't lose your setting. also, be sure to count the clicks to bottom out the sight so you can get back close to your zero when you put it back together.

Since this was my first trip with it, I don't have a zero to get back to yet
After the 10 clicks up, it won't go any further and I don't want to force it, obviously. I'll just disassemble it sometime (won't be able to this weekend) and clean/reassemble. See how it goes.

 

[mac1911]

Since this was my first trip with it, I don't have a zero to get back to yet
After the 10 clicks up, it won't go any further and I don't want to force it, obviously. I'll just disassemble it sometime (won't be able to this weekend) and clean/reassemble. See how it goes.

any screw driver that the blade fits well is good enough....
If I have the ambition i will video taking mine apart as i have a jump in mine from 12 clicks up to 13/14 it would jump about 6 moa!

 

[daekken]

any screw driver that the blade fits well is good enough....
If I have the ambition i will video taking mine apart as i have a jump in mine from 12 clicks up to 13/14 it would jump about 6 moa!

Cool. At least I've still got almost a month until the match to square it away, and I do have a backup plan.

The new op rod spring is so stiff it wouldn't cycle my min charge reloads most of the time but was 100% with HXP. A little bit of elbow grease is required getting the en bloc in there too. I assume it'll loosen up in time like any spring.

I'm already a lot more comfortable with M1s and enjoy getting to know them. Might be removing the gas cylinder on the SG for the first time this weekend as I might be shooting corrosive on Saturday. The rear sight is just another thing to learn.

 

[majspud]

I had to snip a couple coils off my new spring as I was physically unable to set the follower arm into the spring it was so long/powerful.

t

 

[enbloc]

.

 

[mac1911]

I had to snip a couple coils off my new spring as I was physically unable to set the follower arm into the spring it was so long/powerful.

t

whos spring did you use? I have the wolf "extra power" springs in one of mine and it installed as easily as my worn out GI it replaced?

 

[majspud]

Yes, it was a Wolff; Orion was out of town. I also had to ream open the end as the arm wouldn't fit either.

t

 

[Orlando]

Yes, it was a Wolff; Orion was out of town. I also had to ream open the end as the arm wouldn't fit either.

t

Those springs will often cause short stroking
Garand Gear or Orion 7 are recommended

 

[mac1911]

Those springs will often cause short stroking
Garand Gear or Orion 7 are recommended

Never a issue with mine. Even ran some cast loads through it down to 39 grains H4895
Often in my little experience I find the gas cylinder or gas piston is worn.
I have a 1942 SA service grade and the gas cylinder fails the gauge check but still functions with the spring it came with from the cmp.

 

[Orlando]

That's just my experience. I have diagnosed many Garands that were short stroking only to find out they installed a Wolffe extra power spring. Changed to a spec spring and issues went away
IMO there is no good reason to install a "extra power spring"

 

[mac1911]

That's just my experience. I have diagnosed many Garands that were short stroking only to find out they installed a Wolffe extra power spring. Changed to a spec spring and issues went away
IMO there is no good reason to install a "extra power spring"

I agree no need for the extra power spring.
Only ones available when I needed one.
Just curious have you always checked the cylinder and piston when you have a short stroke with wolf spring.

 

[Orlando]

If gas cylinder or op rod piston is out of spec they would not cycle with a USGI or Garand Gear or Orion 7 spring . Now it is possible the gas cylinder and piston could be at the low end of specs (still in spec) and short cycle with extra power spring.

 

[majspud]

The Winchester I put it in shoots beautifully. I used it to qualify at my club's new200 yard range.

T

 

[mac1911]

If gas cylinder or op rod piston is out of spec they would not cycle with a USGI or Garand Gear or Orion 7 spring . Now it is possible the gas cylinder and piston could be at the low end of specs (still in spec) and short cycle with extra power spring.

Correct and I think this is why the Wolff springs don't work well.
I borrowed the gas cylinder and piston gauge to go through my guns...all but one had well worn but not failing the go no go gauges.
The rifle i plan to use for cast has a NOS cylinder and a new piston I now can use 160-200 grain cast loads at 36 grains of H4895 I am using a Orion7 spring.
It's a balancing act for sure. I'm always stumped at how well a M1 can function on the edge of worn out short of a broken part.

 

[daekken]

Mine's a regular spring, just a new one, so it's noticeably stiffer than my service grade's old spring. The service grade is understandably easier to work with when holding the bolt open, etc. Once I get the sights disassembled I'm not sure what to look for other than gunk or obvious burrs, but we'll see. Worst case scenario maybe I can take pictures and post them for perusal.

SG ran like a champ at the Monadnock shoot today, ended up in the positive side of brass since the others shooting M1s did not collect theirs at the end. A lot of HXP cases, Lake City, some Winchester and some Sellier & Bellot. Cleaning them now. My first 7.62x51 reloads ran fine in M1A.

 

[mac1911]

Mine's a regular spring, just a new one, so it's noticeably stiffer than my service grade's old spring. The service grade is understandably easier to work with when holding the bolt open, etc. Once I get the sights disassembled I'm not sure what to look for other than gunk or obvious burrs, but we'll see. Worst case scenario maybe I can take pictures and post them for perusal.

SG ran like a champ at the Monadnock shoot today, ended up in the positive side of brass since the others shooting M1s did not collect theirs at the end. A lot of HXP cases, Lake City, some Winchester and some Sellier & Bellot. Cleaning them now. My first 7.62x51 reloads ran fine in M1A.

Brass is still pretty easy to come by.
If you have a head space comparator it's fun to check out the different brass and see the differences. I get a good amount of brass from one club. I can always tell when one of the more worn club guns was used. It's extremely noticeable running it through the press. I run all my garand brass through FL die. Unless I'm sizing the brass I use in my JCG as issued brass. I have a set of dies set up for that to push shoulder back .003-005"
I have not had to trim my as issued shot brass yet.
I feel very little resistance on the press when sizing this brass. Nice new chamber cut as close to minimum as I could muster with a pull through finish reamer.

 

[dw617]

I'm on my 4x firing of this lot of Brass for my Garand. Most of it stopped growing...and some seems to be shrinking?. A mix of LC69 & 72. I can still find a few long ones and set the FL die accordingly. At this point the FL die is just straightening out the sides of the case, it's not pushing the shoulder back.

 

[mac1911]

I'm on my 4x firing of this lot of Brass for my Garand. Most of it stopped growing...and some seems to be shrinking?. A mix of LC69 & 72. I can still find a few long ones and set the FL die accordingly. At this point the FL die is just straightening out the sides of the case, it's not pushing the shoulder back.

my brass rims usually get all beat up before any other issues.... I have noticed around reload 6-7 the brass is getting harder I can feel and hear a different when the mandrel comes back up and through the neck.