Gabby Giffords’ Gun Control Groups Ask Major Credit Cards to Flag Gun, Ammo Purchases

Credit card processors can most definitely do this. They can get line item detail and prevent purchases of skus whiles allowing the purchase of others.
This is old technology. Look up level two and level three cards.

Couple this tech, this sentiment, and the push to go cashless and the writing is on the wall.

Better get what you need.
 
Medicine Man said:
Credit card processors can most definitely do this. They can get line item detail and prevent purchases of skus whiles allowing the purchase of others.
This is old technology. Look up level two and level three cards.

Couple this tech, this sentiment, and the push to go cashless and the writing is on the wall.

Better get what you need.
Click to expand...

That kind of data is not transmitted on a credit card swipe. It's just a card number, exp date, amount, mcc code and terminal id to make sure it's a valid swipe. No one knows what you bought for $1000 just that there was a purchase for $1000.
 
VetteGirlMA said:
That kind of data is not transmitted on a credit card swipe. It's just a card number, exp date, amount, mcc code and terminal id to make sure it's a valid swipe. No one knows what you bought for $1000 just that there was a purchase for $1000.
Click to expand...
Do you work in that industry? I used to in the early 2000s. We could do it then.

Many retailers track and order inventory through the pos system. The card is easily tied to the PO.

Fleet cards have almost always limited what products can be bought.

It’s just a matter of turning it on. The amount of information that gets sent in the middle of the night is astounding.

I get emails from vendors with coupons for what I bought with a card and I never gave them my email.

Go to Home Depot and return something without a receipt. They swipe your card and pull up everything you bought and when.
 
Last edited:
Medicine Man said:
Do you work in that industry? I used to in the early 2000s. We could do it then.

Many retailers track and order inventory through the pos system. The card is easily tied to the PO.

Fleet cards have almost always limited what products can be bought.

It’s just a matter of turning it on. The amount of information that gets sent in the middle of the night is astounding.

I get emails from vendors with coupons for what I bought with a card and I never gave them my email.

Go to Home Depot and return something without a receipt. They swipe your card and pull up everything you bought and when.
Click to expand...

right.. I am aware that retailers keep that information.. but what actually gets passed on to the credit card company? Probably matters on which bank, and the sophistication of the retailers system. I would think a POS system with scanning capabilities would be able to transfer the purchase data instantly. A local gun shop, with an individual register, likely has a much less sophisticated CC system which won't transfer the data... Remember when we swiped the card on the carbon paper and wrote the charge up by hand, called in by phone for an approval.

I kinda think of PayPal... stores like Bass Pro online specifically say "you cannot purchase this item thru Paypal". Who's enforcing that decision... is it the retailer website, or Paypal itself. Does the retailer make that determination to not process the transaction, or is it Paypal?
 
eboos said:
Credit Card issuers should start flagging alcohol purchases. Purchasers of large amounts of alcohol are more likely to be drunk and driving under the influence. Red flag! If it saves one life.
Click to expand...
and fast food. to prevent diabetes and heart disease
 
Medicine Man said:
Credit card processors can most definitely do this. They can get line item detail and prevent purchases of skus whiles allowing the purchase of others.
This is old technology. Look up level two and level three cards.

Couple this tech, this sentiment, and the push to go cashless and the writing is on the wall.

Better get what you need.
Click to expand...

Of course they can. My previous comments were that a majority/most merchants are not setup to handle this. It would be a less than trivial task to enable this for all merchants and would cost a bunch of $$.
 
Medicine Man said:
Do you work in that industry? I used to in the early 2000s. We could do it then.

Many retailers track and order inventory through the pos system. The card is easily tied to the PO.

Fleet cards have almost always limited what products can be bought.

It’s just a matter of turning it on. The amount of information that gets sent in the middle of the night is astounding.

I get emails from vendors with coupons for what I bought with a card and I never gave them my email.

Go to Home Depot and return something without a receipt. They swipe your card and pull up everything you bought and when.
Click to expand...

I work in the industry and have for years. See my previous comments.

Large places like Bass Pro/Cabelas no problem. Flip a switch and it is there. Smaller one off gun shops, which are the majority, not so easy. Unless they use a software system that can be integrated into the payment processor easily submitting level 2 and level 3 data is not so easy. On the payment processor end we configure merchants to submit that data. If they are not configured and send us the data we toss it in the bit bucket.

Also once we get level 2 and level 3 data we treat it different depending once again on the merchant configuration. In some cases we store it and use to calculate interchange. In other cases we use to generate reports at set intervals and send those reports to merchants etc. If we need to treat the data in a new way then we need to code for it. So does every other payment processor.

I agree with you. It can be done, the question is who will pay for it? This would be a huge effort on the part of merchants, payment gateways, payment processors and the list goes on. Also you need to think of alternate payment methods, Apple Pay, Google Pay, Venmo, PayPal ...
 
Hmmm, pretty sure it's illegal and discriminatory. I'm sure after the Republicans retake the House they would be very interested in these practices if enacted.
 
Medicine Man said:
Do you work in that industry? I used to in the early 2000s. We could do it then.

Many retailers track and order inventory through the pos system. The card is easily tied to the PO.

Fleet cards have almost always limited what products can be bought.

It’s just a matter of turning it on. The amount of information that gets sent in the middle of the night is astounding.

I get emails from vendors with coupons for what I bought with a card and I never gave them my email.

Go to Home Depot and return something without a receipt. They swipe your card and pull up everything you bought and when.
Click to expand...

When you swipe a credit card at a retailer, a transaction is submitted to the main credit card holder (Visa/MC/AMex). They are not transmitting SKUs or line items of a transaction, it's an amount, a card number, expiration date, MCC code, and a terminal id. The only thing VC/MC care about is (a) is the card valid, (b) is the terminal valid and (c) can they authorize the transaction. That's all a swipe is. There is other data on the magnetic stripe of the card for CVV number, zip code, etc so that they know it's an authentic card. The only reason why the MCC code matters is that in some instances transactions may be subjected to different taxes or might be tax deductible swipes as in the case of medical purchases. The only way a swipe can be limited is by the code. For example if it's not listed as a gas station but is a variety store, the swipe might not work because it's tied to a particular type of terminal. If the store bought a new terminal and it said it was a gas station and it was in fact a restaurant the swipe will actually work. You can see swipe terminals for sale on craigslist all the time. Many shop owners do not reprogram the terminal when they bring it to their stores. That's why it's all a mess and the gun grabbers have so much hot air in their egos, if they puffed any more they would explode.
 
ddraper said:
I work in the industry and have for years. See my previous comments.

Large places like Bass Pro/Cabelas no problem. Flip a switch and it is there. Smaller one off gun shops, which are the majority, not so easy. Unless they use a software system that can be integrated into the payment processor easily submitting level 2 and level 3 data is not so easy. On the payment processor end we configure merchants to submit that data. If they are not configured and send us the data we toss it in the bit bucket.

Also once we get level 2 and level 3 data we treat it different depending once again on the merchant configuration. In some cases we store it and use to calculate interchange. In other cases we use to generate reports at set intervals and send those reports to merchants etc. If we need to treat the data in a new way then we need to code for it. So does every other payment processor.

I agree with you. It can be done, the question is who will pay for it? This would be a huge effort on the part of merchants, payment gateways, payment processors and the list goes on. Also you need to think of alternate payment methods, Apple Pay, Google Pay, Venmo, PayPal ...
Click to expand...
Then you know there are already processors that won’t provide merchant services to gun stores.
That’s old news.
Processing is moving away from the stand alone machines and intergrating the internet.

Software is not nearly as expensive as a terminal. Just like bartizans, those terminals will disappear.

Think about those smart chips on your card.

Just because they’re not giving you the data doesn’t mean they’re not collecting it.
 
Medicine Man said:
Then you know there are already processors that won’t provide merchant services to gun stores.
That’s old news.
Processing is moving away from the stand alone machines and intergrating the internet.

Software is not nearly as expensive as a terminal. Just like bartizans, those terminals will disappear.

Think about those smart chips on your card.

Just because they’re not giving you the data doesn’t mean they’re not collecting it.
Click to expand...

Processing has been moving away from stand alone machines for over 10 years. It really doesn't change anything as far as our conversation.

As long as you have POS transactions and physical cards "terminals" will never go away. They will look different and employ different technology but they will be there.

What do you think the current smart chips do? I'd like to hear what the current generation actually does as opposed to what you think they do. I worked on the software to interface with those chips and integrate it into the payment workflows. I spent a couple of years getting ready for chip cards. The chip on cards is used to generate a cryptogram which is submitted instead of a traditional PAN. The cryptogram is decrypted and then various pieces of data are grabbed out of it. There is nothing in the cryptogram concerning anything about the actual order.

Of course we don't get all the data from the merchants. They collect all kinds of data we never see. But I can tell you the merchants are not sending that data directly to the issuing banks, acquiring banks or the card networks in almost all cases. Most/all merchants process using either a payment facilitator, which can also be called a few other things, or directly through a payment processor. The data the issuing banks, acquiring banks and card networks get is from the payment processor and NOT the merchants.

Look we both agree the data is there. We both agree it CAN be done. I just don't believe you can start collecting and aggregating all this data with a flip of the switch. It is just not that easy.
 
ddraper said:
Processing has been moving away from stand alone machines for over 10 years. It really doesn't change anything as far as our conversation.

As long as you have POS transactions and physical cards "terminals" will never go away. They will look different and employ different technology but they will be there.

What do you think the current smart chips do? I'd like to hear what the current generation actually does as opposed to what you think they do. I worked on the software to interface with those chips and integrate it into the payment workflows. I spent a couple of years getting ready for chip cards. The chip on cards is used to generate a cryptogram which is submitted instead of a traditional PAN. The cryptogram is decrypted and then various pieces of data are grabbed out of it. There is nothing in the cryptogram concerning anything about the actual order.

Of course we don't get all the data from the merchants. They collect all kinds of data we never see. But I can tell you the merchants are not sending that data directly to the issuing banks, acquiring banks or the card networks in almost all cases. Most/all merchants process using either a payment facilitator, which can also be called a few other things, or directly through a payment processor. The data the issuing banks, acquiring banks and card networks get is from the payment processor and NOT the merchants.

Look we both agree the data is there. We both agree it CAN be done. I just don't believe you can start collecting and aggregating all this data with a flip of the switch. It is just not that easy.
Click to expand...
I don’t think we’re saying anything different. My original response was to a comment that it couldn’t be done.

I gave examples of where it’s already done.
You gave examples where it isn’t.
 
eddy1953 said:
I use cash for just about all purchases.
Click to expand...
Yeah, cash is still king! [thumbsup]

Funny related story: A while back, after reading on NES that Citi-Bank was anti-2A, I stopped using my Citi-Bank charge card... a card that I'd had since 1990 (my single oldest/longest held, high-limit credit card). Long-held cards are very good for your credit score, so I never actually closed it out... just stopped using it. :cool:

Well, two weeks ago I got an urgent warning from AMEX that something was up with my credit report. :oops: I investigated and it turned out that Citi-Bank had killed my Citi-Bank credit card. No notice. No warning. No letter. No kiss good-bye. No nothing. Suddenly, my available revolving credit was reduced by 25% without any notice. o_OThat is a big deal for an old retired fool like me with extremely limited retirement income. 🤔 I cannot possibly qualify for a new credit card with a similar high limit. [slap]

So bottom line: Citi-Bank got their revenge on me for me cutting them off for their anti-2A stance. :confused: Such is life I guess. [laugh]
 
finance.yahoo.com

A New Bid to Crack the Code on Gun Violence

In 2018, after the Parkland shooting, I wrote a series of articles about how credit card companies and banks played a critical role in financing mass shootings — and how they could help prevent these murders, but have thus far decided to look the other way. A majority of shooters use credit and...
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com

“Now, a financial firm — Amalgamated Bank — has been working behind the scenes to make the idea a reality. The bank, with the help of the advocacy group Guns Down America, recently reapplied to ISO, the standards agency, to create a new set of merchant category codes for gun sales. If ISO creates the code, it could be the beginning of a common-sense approach, one that doesn’t infringe on Second Amendment rights and would hopefully help save lives. But such a move is also likely to become a political lightning rod for businesses. It would test the resolve of business leaders and their commitment to American lives.”
 
MaverickNH said:
finance.yahoo.com

A New Bid to Crack the Code on Gun Violence

In 2018, after the Parkland shooting, I wrote a series of articles about how credit card companies and banks played a critical role in financing mass shootings — and how they could help prevent these murders, but have thus far decided to look the other way. A majority of shooters use credit and...
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com

“Now, a financial firm — Amalgamated Bank — has been working behind the scenes to make the idea a reality. The bank, with the help of the advocacy group Guns Down America, recently reapplied to ISO, the standards agency, to create a new set of merchant category codes for gun sales. If ISO creates the code, it could be the beginning of a common-sense approach, one that doesn’t infringe on Second Amendment rights and would hopefully help save lives. But such a move is also likely to become a political lightning rod for businesses. It would test the resolve of business leaders and their commitment to American lives.”
Click to expand...
So they'll flag gun and ammo purchases from known violent Felons and Gang Members when they purchase firearms and ammo? I'm in! [rofl]
 
Another win for the firearm prohibition lobby. Note how little time it took for the International Organization for Standardization to swing into action for prominent Democratic politicians and civilian disarmament activists in the US.
Global standards body approves new merchant code for gun sellers
The code would help monitors track where an individual spends money, but would not show what specific items were purchased.
Click to expand...
My guess is the disarmament horde already is spooling up to declare that a "loophole."

The natural extension of "monitors track[ing]" should not escape anyone's notice, either.
 

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