G19: This pistol could be the Army's next handgun

[Reptile]

The compact Model 19 is one of Glock's most popular handguns. The striker-fired 9mm pistol features a 4-inch barrel and has a standard capacity of 15 rounds, though 17-round magazines are available. The polymer frame features an accessory rail for mounting lights.

New Glock 19s retail for $500 to $600 each. USASOC is paying a base price of about $320 for each Glock 19, the source said.

With that price, the Army would pay about $91.8 million if the service were to buy 287,000 pistols, the quantity requirement outlined in the MHS effort.

The MHS program is projected to cost about $350 million, Army officials maintain.

http://www.businessinsider.com/this-pistol-could-be-the-armys-next-handgun-2016-3

-------
Great news.

Gen 3 or 4?

What will the new serial numbers be?

 

[SigNut]

"I would bet that the four of you in uniform could probably in 10 minutes come up with an agreement on what that platform should be,". Further evidence that congressmen know nothing about guns or gun guys. 9mm vs. .45, Glock vs. whatever, the debate will never be settled. [emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jamison55]

Most special operations forces, however, use 9mm pistols, and a new Defense Department policy that authorizes "special purpose ammunition" now allows the military to use expanding or hollow-point bullets, experts maintain.

Really? My youngest brother is Recon, and they are issued the newest iteration of the 1911...

 

[jkelly1229]

And im pretty sure hps are still no bueno

 

[loneranger]

The compact Model 19 is one of Glock's most popular handguns. ...

New Glock 19s retail for $500 to $600 each. USASOC is paying a base price of about $320 for each Glock 19, the source said.

With that price, the Army would pay about $91.8 million if the service were to buy 287,000 pistols, the quantity requirement outlined in the MHS effort.

The MHS program is projected to cost about $350 million, Army officials maintain.

Great news.

The Pentagon has negotiated defense contracts down by increasing order volume with "other nations", why not do the same with US police depts and citizens ?

I think the base price could drop at least $100.

 

[tk421991]

There's a lot of "could/would/should" in that article, which means to me that it's a bunch of hot air.

Just like gun owners, the military is divided into two camps, the .45 camp and the 9mm/"I want more than 7+1 shots" camp. If they really wanted to make everyone happy, they'd go with a gun with an external safety that's a double stack .45ACP, like say the CZ97B, especially since now CZ USA guns are made in Kansas City (or will be soon).

Or, they would just allow people to buy their own pistols with their own money at cost price or a small markup. List three approved calibers and let everyone have at it.

 

[crazymjb]

NSW has gone G19 and a lot of Marine Recon has gone G19, gen 3 as I understand it. Though they did just purchase all those fancy 1911s a few years back.

Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...

 

[whacko]

There's a lot of "could/would/should" in that article, which means to me that it's a bunch of hot air.

Just like gun owners, the military is divided into two camps, the .45 camp and the 9mm/"I want more than 7+1 shots" camp. If they really wanted to make everyone happy, they'd go with a gun with an external safety that's a double stack .45ACP, like say the CZ97B, especially since now CZ USA guns are made in Kansas City (or will be soon).

Or, they would just allow people to buy their own pistols with their own money at cost price or a small markup. List three approved calibers and let everyone have at it.

buy your own and use what you want!?!? Clearly you dont understand the military concept of command responsibility. Unit commanders are 100% responsible for the training of their soldiers (or marines). Meaning a commander certifies training has been conducted on every piece of equipment they will use.....and is personally responsible for any mishaps if a soldier under his command was not certified by the commander as trained on that specific piece of equipment. This is not the civilian world where you can argue the 2a means i can carry what i want......there is liability up the chain of command that some people dont realize. Not to mention i would kinda like to be able to use my fellow soldiers mags and ammo in my handgun. There is a reason soldiers are trained not to be "individuals".

 

[tk421991]

buy your own and use what you want!?!? Clearly you dont understand the military concept of command responsibility. Unit commanders are 100% responsible for the training of their soldiers (or marines). Meaning a commander certifies training has been conducted on every piece of equipment they will use.....and is personally responsible for any mishaps if a soldier under his command was not certified by the commander as trained on that specific piece of equipment. This is not the civilian world where you can argue the 2a means i can carry what i want......there is liability up the chain of command that some people dont realize. Not to mention i would kinda like to be able to use my fellow soldiers mags and ammo in my handgun. There is a reason soldiers are trained not to be "individuals".

Not sure if serious or sarcasm

 

[whacko]

Not sure if serious or sarcasm

Completely serious. As a former commander I (and all commanders) have to certify that my Soldiers are trained on the equipment they use in combat. Would you want your Soldiers in combat with personally owned fire arms that you did not plan, and witness the execution of the training on if you will be held liable for a negligant discharge on? In a standard line unit (spec ops excluded they are a rare breed) all soldiers need to carry and use the same equipment so the training is standard for all.

Have you ever commanded Soldiers or Marines?

 

[drgrant]

Lol another army pistol rumination thread, does anybody here really believe "da millutary" is in a rush to replace the M9? I'll believe it when it happens... these news articles about replacing the M9 have only come up 2-6 times a year for the last decade.

 

[whacko]

Lol another army pistol rumination thread, does anybody here really believe "da millutary" is in a rush to replace the M9? I'll believe it when it happens... these news articles about replacing the M9 have only come up 2-6 times a year for the last decade.

Funny that most of the guys ive argued with over this are non vets that just want their favorite carry piece to be the new side arm.

- - - Updated - - -

If they go to a striker type gun they will see the exact same increases in accidental discharges/shootings that the police departments that have adopted them are seeing

IMHO this platform is a bad idea for individuals who get limited training and practice and are expected to use it once in a blue moon under super high stress conditions

The mil will never go to a fire arm with no external safety for the standard issue side arm.

 

[tk421991]

Completely serious. As a former commander I (and all commanders) have to certify that my Soldiers are trained on the equipment they use in combat. Would you want your Soldiers in combat with personally owned fire arms that you did not plan, and witness the execution of the training on if you will be held liable for a negligant discharge on? In a standard line unit (spec ops excluded they are a rare breed) all soldiers need to carry and use the same equipment so the training is standard for all.

Have you ever commanded Soldiers or Marines?

Guess you missed the whole "buy your own revolver/pistol" policy concept that was in place in the British Empire, Japan and here well into WW2. Once upon a time, we had a militia in this country and they even bought their own long arms! Quelle suprise!

You honestly sound like a bureaucrat concerned with paperwork and pencil pushing more than anything.

 

[btnh6668]

Guess you missed the whole "buy your own revolver/pistol" policy concept that was in place in the British Empire, Japan and here well into WW2. Once upon a time, we had a militia in this country and they even bought their own long arms! Quelle suprise!

You honestly sound like a bureaucrat concerned with paperwork and pencil pushing more than anything.

To me it makes complete sense to have uniform ammunition and firearms.

 

[crazymjb]

Guess you missed the whole "buy your own revolver/pistol" policy concept that was in place in the British Empire, Japan and here well into WW2. Once upon a time, we had a militia in this country and they even bought their own long arms! Quelle suprise!

You honestly sound like a bureaucrat concerned with paperwork and pencil pushing more than anything.

I was on the enlisted side of the fence as a grunt and you sir are way off base. Whacko is/was a professional. The military isn't a hodgepodge militia, it's a professional organization, probably at its pinnacle at that current point in time. Special units differ from line units, and the needs differ accordingly.

Just because the revolution "worked" didn't mean the militia of the time was just as effective as what we have now.

Mike

 

[Spanz]

just so long as they were 100% manufactured in the USA, i have no objeciton.

 

[tk421991]

I was on the enlisted side of the fence as a grunt and you sir are way off base. Whacko is/was a professional. The military isn't a hodgepodge militia, it's a professional organization, probably at its pinnacle at that current point in time. Special units differ from line units, and the needs differ accordingly.

Just because the revolution "worked" didn't mean the militia of the time was just as effective as what we have now.

Mike

I frankly don't care what his opinion is because he decided to come right off the bat and be condescending. So he can take his professional career, which taxpayers pay for, and write books for all I care.

I have no room in my life for condescending people.

 

[crazymjb]

I didn't read it as condescending... though that is.

Really, the taxpayer card? you still haven't answered his question about whether or not you've commanded soldiers or Marines, but I could take a guess.

Mike

 

[free]

I frankly don't care what his opinion is because he decided to come right off the bat and be condescending. So he can take his professional career, which taxpayers pay for, and write books for all I care.

I have no room in my life for condescending people.

You must be special then.

 

[M60]

Really? My youngest brother is Recon, and they are issued the newest iteration of the 1911...
[/FONT]

Force Recon is Marine Corps.. Army still uses 9mm.

 

[drgrant]

I frankly don't care what his opinion is because he decided to come right off the bat and be condescending. So he can take his professional career, which taxpayers pay for, and write books for all I care.

I have no room in my life for condescending people.

What are you, 12? His point is that the regs don't allow for what you want. Are the regs ****ing stupid? Sure but that doesn't change the current reality.

 

[M60]

Guess you missed the whole "buy your own revolver/pistol" policy concept that was in place in the British Empire, Japan and here well into WW2. Once upon a time, we had a militia in this country and they even bought their own long arms! Quelle suprise!

You honestly sound like a bureaucrat concerned with paperwork and pencil pushing more than anything.

He sounds like a leader who doesn't want to be accountable for things beyond his control.

 

[Andy in NH]

IMHO this platform is a bad idea for individuals who get limited training and practice and are expected to use it once in a blue moon under super high stress conditions

You mean like most gun owners?

 

[whacko]

Guess you missed the whole "buy your own revolver/pistol" policy concept that was in place in the British Empire, Japan and here well into WW2. Once upon a time, we had a militia in this country and they even bought their own long arms! Quelle suprise!

You honestly sound like a bureaucrat concerned with paperwork and pencil pushing more than anything.

i am far from a bureaucrat. I was/and am concerned with prividing my Soldiers with the best training possible to win and survive in combat. And imo....and that of the US Army is to provide soldiers with the same equient in order to ensure that they are properly trained. Additionally the requirement for a commander to certify his soldiers are trained is not something i ****ing came up with.....its a requirement though.....and we tend to follow orders....its kind of "a thing".

soldiers are primarliy required to pack their rucksacks identically and set up their molle gear the same.....its not a bs bureaucratic requiremt.....itll save your life when taking fire and possibly having to dig through another Soldiers bag to find something thatll save your ass can be a bit easier if everyones shit is wired tight and packed the same. Given that info you think soldiers should all have different fire arms with different ammo and mags?

 

[spcantwell]

So, if I read this right.... the army is going to pay for custom 1911's in .45 and get hi-points in .40?

But that's not too bad, .40's can take out a tank....

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[crazymjb]

What are you, 12? His point is that the regs don't allow for what you want. Are the regs ****ing stupid? Sure but that doesn't change the current reality.

I don't think they are all stupid. In a perfect world everyone would be competent to pick their own kit, master their own gear, and the choice would largely be ammo/magazine standardization rather than how stuff runs. High speed types tend to more or less follow this line of thinking to my understanding. But this doesn't work on a broader scale.

Units vary in leniency on some stuff. I've had commands that basically dictated exactly how we had to set up our kit, and more lenient commands that said as long as your IFAK is here, your tourniquets are here, and you have access to your weapon and magazines we don't really care where you put the rest of your shit, if you make non-permanent modifications to your rifle (one point clamp on sling mounts, magpul stocks, etc). Our SSP on the other hand basically chose teh weapons they would go out with that day (from the armory of course), had non-issue uniform stuff (oakley boots), etc. They can do that because they are small enough to both fly under the Radar and everyone is hand picked and has a mastery of their gear that just isn't available to company sized elements.

I think if a commander has personal knowledge of equipment and wants to make exceptions based off that and then take responsibility for those, that is one thing. That said, generally speaking, weapons should be standardized. I don't love the M9, but knowing how an infantry company of Marines operates in terms of the makeup of the company I think making sure everyone is trained as per the military's requirements on the individual weapon systems is an absolute must. I don't want people having custom home-brought shit for myriad reasons, and anyone who has served in the armed forces knows exactly why.

Mike

 

[whacko]

I don't think they are all stupid. In a perfect world everyone would be competent to pick their own kit, master their own gear, and the choice would largely be ammo/magazine standardization rather than how stuff runs. High speed types tend to more or less follow this line of thinking to my understanding. But this doesn't work on a broader scale.

Units vary in leniency on some stuff. I've had commands that basically dictated exactly how we had to set up our kit, and more lenient commands that said as long as your IFAK is here, your tourniquets are here, and you have access to your weapon and magazines we don't really care where you put the rest of your shit, if you make non-permanent modifications to your rifle (one point clamp on sling mounts, magpul stocks, etc). Our SSP on the other hand basically chose teh weapons they would go out with that day (from the armory of course), had non-issue uniform stuff (oakley boots), etc. They can do that because they are small enough to both fly under the Radar and everyone is hand picked and has a mastery of their gear that just isn't available to company sized elements.

I think if a commander has personal knowledge of equipment and wants to make exceptions based off that and then take responsibility for those, that is one thing. That said, generally speaking, weapons should be standardized. I don't love the M9, but knowing how an infantry company of Marines operates in terms of the makeup of the company I think making sure everyone is trained as per the military's requirements on the individual weapon systems is an absolute must. I don't want people having custom home-brought shit for myriad reasons, and anyone who has served in the armed forces knows exactly why.

Mike

this x100. With sensitive items i required standardized packing list and location.....I deferred to the 1sg as to the specifics of where as he is the expert.....where you packed your panties i didn't give a shit. But standardized weapons is a must in a modern military.

 

[whacko]

He sounds like a leader who doesn't want to be accountable for things beyond his control.

Im a leader that believes in standardized training based on the regulatory requirement that i sign a memorandum before deploying that i personally certify my Soldiers were trained on all of their equipment. And if some jackass has a nd with his persoanally owned g19 and injures another Soldier im profesionally.....and yes morally responsible because I allowd the soldier to use equipment and was not trained on it propey. Thats command respinsibility. The first question asked after an accident in the Army is "who certified the that the Soldier was trained on that equipment....second question is "where is the copy of the current risk assesmet"? I dont make these regs.....but i do follow them.

Oh yeah not to mention.....personally owned fire arms are prohibited by regulation anywAy in line units.

 

[jeepchute]

So, if I read this right.... the army is going to pay for custom 1911's in .45 and get hi-points in .40?

But that's not too bad, .40's can take out a tank....

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

But the Russians are getting feisty, so you also need to keep a 9mm for bear.

 

[jct61765]

Glock didnt even submit a gun. Neither did ruger.