If people are dying of starvation how does food become less scarce? I would think that people arent going to be dying of starvation until the food is gone. Game and domestic animals will be gone. I bet that people would even try to eat all the silage on any farms that they find. I imagine that any area that is still able to grow and produce food would be very protected.
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- Thread starter GMwhiteguy
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If people are dying of starvation how does food become less scarce? I would think that people arent going to be dying of starvation until the food is gone. Game and domestic animals will be gone. I bet that people would even try to eat all the silage on any farms that they find. I imagine that any area that is still able to grow and produce food would be very protected.
MisterHappy
NES Member
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If by "silage", you mean "Other people"...I agree.
As many people have pointed out, the natural "steady-state" will look a lot like feudal Europe.
You'll have regional warlords demanding tribute from local communities because its more sustainable than killing them and taking what they have now. Local communities will pay tribute because it's less costly than fighting the warlords. Warlords will fight each other over control of local communities with "border" communities taking a huge brunt of the resulting fighting.
Knowing that's the eventual steady-state, you want to have yourself in a position to establish yourself in that steady state as quickly as possible. So, which do you want to be involved in, and are you willing to do what it takes to get there?
While everyone might want to be a warlord, they have the lowest chance of success, and chance of success is directly dependent on your brutality, willingness to commit violence and instill fear. If you want to be a warlord, you must assemble enough people and firepower around you that few, if any, are willing to challenge your threat of force, and you will likely need to establish your willingness to carry out such threat. What's more, you will need to be immediately suspicious of any followers who are independent thinking, charismatic and able as they pose a threat of take-over.
Working for a warlord can be equally troublesome, with fewer benefits.
Establishing a community is more likely to success with proper planning, especially if you can establish a sizable, defensible location with enough population to pose a reasonable threat of resistance against a warlord. Since I am unwilling to be a ruthless, vicious and heartless dictator, this is my plan. You need a large enough population to be able to provide for itself and maintain a sense of "normalcy" to most residents. You'll want to keep expansion in mind, as established communities will attract refuges who are unwilling to join up with warlords and unable to survive on their own. Most of the research I've seen on this suggests a minimum starting size of 30 adults. While you can survive with smaller, about 10-12, more people allow for better division of labor and focus on specialization, which improves efficiency.
You best chance of survival post apocalypse is to plan for this eventuality. Have a location in mind, people picked out, leadership structure and roles discusses and agreed upon, and a plan of action on how to establish defense, water, shelter, food and power at the location now, while it's not needed so you can work out the bugs before it's a matter of life and death. After the EOTW event occurs, you have a few days to establish a defensible community before the roving gangs organize and spread like locust - and if you're not ready yet they'll pick you clean and leave your raided corpse for buzzards.
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BTW - on the list of SHTF events to be prepared for, this is the bottom. In preparation, start at the top: Extended Power Outage, Job Loss, Injury/Illness, unexpected financial burden, etc.
You'll have regional warlords demanding tribute from local communities because its more sustainable than killing them and taking what they have now. Local communities will pay tribute because it's less costly than fighting the warlords. Warlords will fight each other over control of local communities with "border" communities taking a huge brunt of the resulting fighting.
Knowing that's the eventual steady-state, you want to have yourself in a position to establish yourself in that steady state as quickly as possible. So, which do you want to be involved in, and are you willing to do what it takes to get there?
While everyone might want to be a warlord, they have the lowest chance of success, and chance of success is directly dependent on your brutality, willingness to commit violence and instill fear. If you want to be a warlord, you must assemble enough people and firepower around you that few, if any, are willing to challenge your threat of force, and you will likely need to establish your willingness to carry out such threat. What's more, you will need to be immediately suspicious of any followers who are independent thinking, charismatic and able as they pose a threat of take-over.
Working for a warlord can be equally troublesome, with fewer benefits.
Establishing a community is more likely to success with proper planning, especially if you can establish a sizable, defensible location with enough population to pose a reasonable threat of resistance against a warlord. Since I am unwilling to be a ruthless, vicious and heartless dictator, this is my plan. You need a large enough population to be able to provide for itself and maintain a sense of "normalcy" to most residents. You'll want to keep expansion in mind, as established communities will attract refuges who are unwilling to join up with warlords and unable to survive on their own. Most of the research I've seen on this suggests a minimum starting size of 30 adults. While you can survive with smaller, about 10-12, more people allow for better division of labor and focus on specialization, which improves efficiency.
You best chance of survival post apocalypse is to plan for this eventuality. Have a location in mind, people picked out, leadership structure and roles discusses and agreed upon, and a plan of action on how to establish defense, water, shelter, food and power at the location now, while it's not needed so you can work out the bugs before it's a matter of life and death. After the EOTW event occurs, you have a few days to establish a defensible community before the roving gangs organize and spread like locust - and if you're not ready yet they'll pick you clean and leave your raided corpse for buzzards.
- - - Updated - - -
BTW - on the list of SHTF events to be prepared for, this is the bottom. In preparation, start at the top: Extended Power Outage, Job Loss, Injury/Illness, unexpected financial burden, etc.
Hiltonizer
Banned
Between watching the Postman last night, and the first few episodes of Revolution... I've decided burying a trunk full of five M&P15s, 10k rounds of ammo, and 30 magazines will make me a viable warlord WROL. This can all be achived under 6k and is much more cost effective than actual prepping.
Rockrivr1
NES Member
After watching "The Road", where the two main characters have been just surviving on the brink of starvation for years, you have ask yourself if there's a point where you just say "F" it and end the suffering. While watching the part of the movie where Charlize Theron's character gives up after a couple years and walks into the cold night to die, my wife looks at me and states that if this ever really happens she wants to be gone right at the onset. That she will not want to live through that kind of hell. I have to admit, it kinda bothered me....
You must be getting a deal on the rifles and ammo.
Ahh Wolf, brave man or a foolish man to trust their life with it.
A pastor friend of mine in upstate NY has the families in his church storing enough food & spare beds for their family plus 5 people for 6 months. He also has a bunch of them raising rabbits for food and goats for milk. The last time I saw him 75% of his household needs were off-grid. His view is "We'll take you in, if we can."
He also runs a Father's Day trap shoot at the church each year.
He also runs a Father's Day trap shoot at the church each year.
Scarecrow
Army Veteran
That's one of the first religious people I've heard of with their head screwed on straight
We're around...we're just hard to find in MA....besides the percussion cap was invented by a pastor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_John_Forsyth
Thanks for all the opinions, lots of great pionts made and discussed. Chances of making it alone - not good, chances of trying to keep everybody I know alive- worse. But I think that companionship is underrated, you ever drive cross country with just your wife or girlfriend? I have, and trust me a few days in the amount of estrogen in the car was stifiling. If that is my exsitince ( although I love her, and she is a good shot ) I hope the bomb hits my house first.
Hiltonizer
Banned
slickguns... brass ammo of course.
Nobody said anything about quality. Just quantity. I have shot a lot of Wolf in other peoples ARs and it has always worked
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You are getting brass cased ammo for less than 300?K shipped? Where?
J
Jose
You need to distance yourself from them and let them know in no uncertain terms they are not welcome. I am dead serious about it.
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This. Freeloaders will be met with ruthlessness.
For the near future , you're quite a swim to anywhere .
I have a relatively simple solution for this problem. I only "talk prep" with a buddy who lives in Saskatchewan...
Quebecois?
Hiltonizer
Banned
Nobody said anything about quality. Just quantity. I have shot a lot of Wolf in other peoples ARs and it has always worked
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You are getting brass cased ammo for less than 300?K shipped? Where?
Sportsman's Guide usually has PMC X-Tac for just under 300 fairly regularly, but you need to jump on it as its only ever in stock a day at a time.. I've been lucky. They recently had PPU at this rate too. To get it under 300 shipped though you need a membership (which has paid for itself in spades for me) and a coupon.
Golden Bear, while not actually brass cased is, brass coated.. that's available with regularity at SG as well.
I love Sportman's Guide, just got 3 more 50 cal ammo cans in the mail yesterday... $16 shipped total.
ccm75
NES Member
It's not already? Oh, that was Maine...
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ccm75
NES Member
Isnt the one with the biggest/most gun(s) in charge?
CRSIII
NES Member
No.
Or it could put a target on your back for people who don't have any themselves. I think the saying speak softly and carry a big stick applies here. You can have the most prepared house on the planet and if you brag about it to all your friends, they will take it from you unless your plan is well thought out. You can either include them in it or stop them from getting it. Those are your only two options if they already know about it.
GunGrey
Banned
first one to get shot and his stuff taken
no trouble ever came from keeping your mouth shut.
Exactly. I want to start with the guy at the Conley terminal who knows what's in all those containers....Then a few commercial fishermen. And the guys who run the commercial food distribution warehouses in South Bay.Anyone who doesn't share their hoards, well we'll just kill you in your sleep and take everything. Even Madmax needed a gyro pilot to help him out.It won't be like your fantasy, you will need to build a community to survive. Might as well start with people you know. /
My buddy in Canada is convinced the banks will fail before everything else. That kind of changes the scenario.
Keep your group tight.
keep your lips, tighter.
keep your lips, tighter.
GunGrey
Banned
unless its to feed disinformation
Scarecrow
Army Veteran
All my supplies are buried under the gas main on the side of the Warwick police station. The lock on it is specially designed to only open with a key that looks like a small bomb.
