FOPA/Ammo Storage question

[assault_spork]

Couldn't find an answer to this...

So FOPA requires ammo be in a separate locked container.

But can this separate locked ammo container itself be locked in the locked rifle case? I.E. to have just one thing to carry? They are technically separate, no?

I know, I know...."feel free to be the test case and we'll find out the easy way!"

 

[assault_spork]

Variation to this question:

Let's say I had a backpack with lockable zippers and two compartments.

Could (locked) compartment 1 be where the unloaded locked gun is and can (locked) compartment 2 be where the ammo is?

 

[Len-2A Training]

IANAL but suspect "separate container" means this would likely not fly as acceptable..

 

[assault_spork]

IANAL but suspect "separate container" means this would likely not fly as acceptable..

Thanks Len! I default to "does it pass the 'Len-2A reasonable-as-far-as-Massachusetts-goes' test?".

 

[dcmdon]

Len , even I agree that a separate container is a separate container. Period.

But - and this is a big BUT.

The FOPA safe passage provision says NOTHING about the gun and ammo having to be in separate containers. NOthing.

The OP faked you out by premising that the law required separate containers. It doesn't.

It only says the firearm must be unloaded. i.e. empty mag well, cylinder, and chamber.

More interesting stuff. I've never really parsed FOPA safe passage but if you look at it it says that with a vehicle without a separate compartment (trunk) the firearm OR the ammo must be locked in a container. It does not say firearm AND ammo. It says OR.

Very interesting. (Stroking beard)

Don

p.s. Can you believe that this is one single sentence??

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting,

shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded,

and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle:

Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Don,

Someone skipped High School English Grammar class and later became a lawyer and legistraitor.

Also worth noting: It covers travel thru "unfriendly areas" and they do not have to be states (e.g. Boston with their Boston-AWB/large cap mag ban from 1989).

Wisest to put unloaded guns in one locked container and ammo in a different locked container, avoid some cop giving someone grief.

 

[dcmdon]

I agree. I'm just pointing out what the law actually SAYS.

Also. One thing I note to everyone is that FOPA does NOT cover magazines.

So, that extra-killy assault weapon you are driving through MA, CT, NY, and NJ is not a problem on your way to FL.

($100 donation in your name to Comm2A for anyone who finds a single instance of someone prosecuted who was transporting in compliance with FOPA in a car)

But that 30 round high cap in the same locked container. IS NOT covered by FOPA

Don

 

[assault_spork]

Good info thanks guys. I'm still parsing it all.

I'm getting a car soon so I'm just getting things sorted so I don't make any mistakes.

So Don, you mean that let's say I even had a pre-ban 30 round mag (I don't) and I were to travel through a state that magically dispels them via soccer-mom placating laws, that the mere existence of the magazine would be illegal?

Very good to know.That's some real reading between the lines and why I started the thread. Appreciated.

 

[dcmdon]

Correct.

Mags are not covered in FOPA.

In MA any post ban standard capacity mag would be illegal to possess while driving through.
In CT any standard capacity mag, regardless of age, would be illegal, unless you declared them in 2013. (You didn't have to be a CT residdnt to declare mags. but most out of staters didn't )

I don't know about NY and NJ.

So . . in the end, you choose your risk.

I personally would roll the dice. I'd stick the guns unloaded in my trunk along with my ammo and I'd spend a minue to disassemble the mags and put them in there also.

I used to do a 3 gun match at the West Point military academy. The first year I did it I called the NY State police and asked about my risk bringing high cap mags to the event. The cop laughed and told me I was overthinking it. I asked him if I could have his name and shield number and if he would go on the record saying it was nothing to worry about it. He agreed. I got his info and with all my stuff locked in the trunk went to the match. This cops word obviously isn't everything. But it was enough for me.

Really, every competitor was breaking NY law. But yet the NYSP weren't waiting at the gate arresting people.

If you are really risk averse, a $13 USPS flat rate medium sized box can hold enough mags for a fun vacation. Just mail them to your destination.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Don, once you are on West Point property, you are no longer "in NY" or subject to NY laws, you are on US Gov't property and only subject to US Military laws/rules. Of course staying overnight in NY is a different story.

 

[allen-1]

Correct.

Mags are not covered in FOPA.

In MA any post ban standard capacity mag would be illegal to possess while driving through.
In CT any standard capacity mag, regardless of age, would be illegal, unless you declared them in 2013. (You didn't have to be a CT residdnt to declare mags. but most out of staters didn't )

I don't know about NY and NJ.

So . . in the end, you choose your risk.

I personally would roll the dice. I'd stick the guns unloaded in my trunk along with my ammo and I'd spend a minue to disassemble the mags and put them in there also.

I used to do a 3 gun match at the West Point military academy. The first year I did it I called the NY State police and asked about my risk bringing high cap mags to the event. The cop laughed and told me I was overthinking it. I asked him if I could have his name and shield number and if he would go on the record saying it was nothing to worry about it. He agreed. I got his info and with all my stuff locked in the trunk went to the match. This cops word obviously isn't everything. But it was enough for me.

Really, every competitor was breaking NY law. But yet the NYSP weren't waiting at the gate arresting people.

If you are really risk averse, a $13 USPS flat rate medium sized box can hold enough mags for a fun vacation. Just mail them to your destination.

And let's not forget that hollow point ammo is very strictly controlled in New Jersey, it's only supposed to be used for hunting or at your range;
no I'm NOT joking.
Citation: http://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-hollowpoint.shtml

So those 10 round mags that I keep loaded up for CT with defensive ammo are illegal for to even transport through NJ under lock and key because they're hollow points...

 

[Sterg]

Len, if you go into a gun free zone and you have to lock your gun in a lock box in your car I think you have to unload it, right? If so where do you store the ammo? Seems like it would be a pita to unload then load every time you went into a courthouse or other fed building if you were running errands. Do most people just lock it up loaded?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len, if you go into a gun free zone and you have to lock your gun in a lock box in your car I think you have to unload it, right? If so where do you store the ammo? Seems like it would be a pita to unload then load every time you went into a courthouse or other fed building if you were running errands. Do most people just lock it up loaded?

It is generally believed that it must be unloaded in MA, so that is what I do. Ammo in MA can be in the same locked container as the gun. There was a court case wrt leaving a loaded gun in a car, but that particular part of the case was noted but not adjudicated, so we don't have total clarity on leaving it loaded being legal or not, so Massprudence is a wise course of action.

Personally I don't "run into Fed buildings or courthouses" very often so it's not a big issue for me. As a Constable, I show credentials in a state/municipal courthouse and they direct me to lock it in a locker loaded . . . that isn't likely to work for the general public, largely because no courthouse I've been in has more than 4 or 8 gun lockers.

 

[Sterg]

It is generally believed that it must be unloaded in MA, so that is what I do. Ammo in MA can be in the same locked container as the gun. There was a court case wrt leaving a loaded gun in a car, but that particular part of the case was noted but not adjudicated, so we don't have total clarity on leaving it loaded being legal or not, so Massprudence is a wise course of action.

Personally I don't "run into Fed buildings or courthouses" very often so it's not a big issue for me. As a Constable, I show credentials in a state/municipal courthouse and they direct me to lock it in a locker loaded . . . that isn't likely to work for the general public, largely because no courthouse I've been in has more than 4 or 8 gun lockers.

So Just unload it and keep the ammo next to it. Thanks for the clarification. I have a Hornady lock box and its fairly beefy.

 

[dcmdon]

Don, once you are on West Point property, you are no longer "in NY" or subject to NY laws, you are on US Gov't property and only subject to US Military laws/rules. Of course staying overnight in NY is a different story.

True. In fact this rare knowledgeable cop that I got on the phone reminded me that NY gun laws don't apply "on post".

FOPA is in full effect for transport of the firearms. (legal at origin and destination)

But FOPA did not protect the 200+ competitors who brought standard capacity magazines to the event.
There was real legal risk, albeit small for every competitor.

The old don't do stupid things, with stupid people in stupid places rule applies.