First BIG Mistake (Double charge), Questions and OUCH!

[horsegoalie]

Sorry for those looking for carnage (and long post), but only a little blood, a few cuts, and a sore cheek. I've looked much worse before. The firearm (S&W 1911 Performance Center 45ACP Commander) I credit for the lack of damage. On to the story...

So, I made the big mistake. It's an incredibly valuable lesson to be learned. I went progressive reloading(good choice), but got caught up in all the moving parts and adjustements, etc., and created a double charge. I know about when it happened, it was during my learning curve with the new press, in the first 50 rounds out of the press. I would have something go wrong (anything), and not handle it right, then get flustered and not cycle the press fully. I was using a Hornady Powder Cop, but that did not solve everything obviously. I knew this during the reloading, but did not do enough about it....

I went to the range and was shooting the rounds, but in the back of my mind, I never felt comfortable like I did with my single stage press rounds. I finally hit the bad one, and BOOOOM. The round went off, as well as at least one, maybe two in the magazine. Instant pain and heat in my face. I thank than those above for the eyewear I had on, as there were marks on it as well. I hold the gun, then eject the magazine and try to cycle the slide. I force the slide open (by hand), and using a brass rod, force the spent cartridge out of the chamber. The spent cartridge has a huge hole in it by the base. Then I inspect the magazine, and at least one round, maybe two went off as well in the magazine.

Aftermath... I only bled in three locations on my face (nose and two on cheek), so easy to stop the bleeding and move on. I actually think this was pretty lucky. A little blood is nothing compared to the alternatives... Inspecting the gun, the plunger tube was blown off the gun, and the slide no longer cycles properly. Really, even if it costs me the 1911 completely, this is still a cheap lesson.


Looking back, these are my lessons:

1) Slow Down!!!!!!
2) When in doubt, make sure you put your eyeballs on EVERY round.
3) Never assume "it is fine", or "I only missed one, I'm sure it's good", or anything else, it's maybe not fine....
4) Don't trust equipment, look with your eyes at every round.

QUESTIONS:

1) Will the 1911 ever be reliable again??? The slide, barrel, etc. look OK, but the frame is definitely not "square" anymore. I would NEVER fire it again without going to a gunsmith, but this is my carry gun, should I ever rely on it again???
2) for reloading, I am already in process of removing the bullets (next 20 were fine but I will de-bullet ALL of the 250 I reloaded). I am measuring the powder in each round to see if I made any more mistakes, purely for my own education. I will then remove the depriming rod (but not resizing die), and will reprocess. Is there more I can do for safety????? Anything else I need to do?

Thanks for reading the long post...

 

[nightpoison]

something you can do to check your rounds is to keep an eye on say the first ten rounds. once their done do a weight check on your digital scale. Once you have your base line weight for good rounds, you can always check the weight on any rounds your not sure about. anything drastically off you might have an over/under charge.

DISCLAIMER: I don't currently reload, however its a sound way of checking for over/under charges.

 

[Dadstoys]

Damn man, glad your ok.
I'm still relatively new and paraniod enough to check every round visually.
I had a kaboom years ago with factory stuff.
Picking copper shrapnel out of hand and forearm sucks.

 

[BostonBullit]

Not "when in doubt look at every round", ALWAYS look into each case before putting the bullet on top. If you can't see the charge add a light strip from Inline fabrication.

Were you taking cases out of the press and putting them back in? If so why? If you need to weigh a charge then try to get in the habit of fully cycling it to the next station before taking it out. If the press gets jammed up I just take the one in the powder drop station out and set it aside. After things are running again I leave it and take care of it at the end of the loading session.

Lessons learned with no serious damage, could have been a lot worse

 

[Squire]

I'd have someone weld the slide open and mount it on the wall as a reminder of your mistake. It's totaled, and you could probably buy 2 replacements for what it would cost to get it back in NEW working condition, and you'd always be suspicious.
fr
Glad you can still see.

 

[horsegoalie]

Thanks for the recommendation. I think the idea of fully cycling is really the key. If you do that and pay attention, that is a good first step. The press was locking up as I was learning it. A few adjustments and it cycled perfectly every time, but the damage was already done. I will be inspecting every round before the bullet placed on top going forward. I actually wear a headlamp (the same one I use when hiking) while reloading. It certainly ain't cool, but I love the light it produces.

Not "when in doubt look at every round", ALWAYS look into each case before putting the bullet on top. If you can't see the charge add a light strip from Inline fabrication.

Were you taking cases out of the press and putting them back in? If so why? If you need to weigh a charge then try to get in the habit of fully cycling it to the next station before taking it out. If the press gets jammed up I just take the one in the powder drop station out and set it aside. After things are running again I leave it and take care of it at the end of the loading session.

Lessons learned with no serious damage, could have been a lot worse

 

[horsegoalie]

Just to be clear.... I have reloaded several thousand rounds without issue on the single stage press, but am definitely new to the progressive. This was my mistake, just thought I'd let others learn from my stupidity and get any recommendations from those with more experience than me....

 

[SeanT]

I started with a progressive and for quite some time didn't have all the dies in place. I started it as a single stage as I got used to what each die did, then started using multiple dies at a time. For a while I was resizing and priming only until I got a good sized batch and would then add powder and bullet in a separate run. Yes, it was super slow but it definitely helped me get used to how it worked. I'm now comfortable using all the dies in a run, but it was a good way to start.

YMMV
Glad it turned out as minor as it did for you

 

[noylj]

1) Look in every case before placing a bullet on it.
2) When operating the press, the only areas you need to watch are the case before you place a bullet on it and the bullet/case going into the seating die. Next, would be having to watch a powder cop die. Personally, I find all my attention is on the two items mentioned, so I got an RCBS Lock-Out die that will stop the press without my attention.
3) Whenever anything "weird" happens, you clear the shell plate completely, find and fix the problem, pour powder back in measure for any charged cases, and work the cases through the press.
4) If you spill powder, follow (3) and remove the shell plate and clean up. This is a real bear with a Dillon 1050, but I still do it.
5) One big advantage to the Hornady L-N-L is that the charged case is right under the reloader's nose, so there is no excuse NOT to inspect the case.
6) I found that, when batch loading on a single-stage press, using a loading tray to hold the charged cases didn't work well for me. I would charge the case, inspect it, and immediately seat the bullet. No way to miss one uncharged case out of 50-100 and no cases getting spilled if the tray was jogged/moved.
7) I worry about folks that have a bullet feeder and can't/don't inspect the charged cases before the bullet drops on the case.

 

[glockerblogger]

Amazing story. Glad it did not end badly. I have my LNL AP tuned but still prefer to reload in two steps. Size / prime, followed by the rest in step 2. The two riskier parts are priming and loading powder. By separating them, I perhaps take an extra hour for five hundred rounds but no misses.

on my turret press before I got the LNL AP, the Lee dispenser malfunctioned (plastic bottom lock got stuck). Double charge the first round, squib the very next. The Caspian custom 38 super actually handled the double charge without missing a beat. I just realized I had shot one amazingly hot load. The squib was the bigger problem. Luckily the round after would not chamber so no harm.

Since then, moved to LnL AP with RCBS case activated powder measure. With the two step process, bunch of enhancements from inline fabrications, not a problem since.

 

[*chris*]

Not "when in doubt look at every round", ALWAYS look into each case before putting the bullet on top. If you can't see the charge add a light strip from Inline fabrication.

This is the right answer, even when my LNL-AP AmmoPlant was humming along (case feeder and bullet feeder, no hands required) I would look in every filled case before allowing the press to seat a round.

Chris

 

[EddieCoyle]

1) Look in every case before placing a bullet on it.
2) When operating the press, the only areas you need to watch are the case before you place a bullet on it and the bullet/case going into the seating die. Next, would be having to watch a powder cop die. Personally, I find all my attention is on the two items mentioned, so I got an RCBS Lock-Out die that will stop the press without my attention.
3) Whenever anything "weird" happens, you clear the shell plate completely, find and fix the problem, pour powder back in measure for any charged cases, and work the cases through the press.
4) If you spill powder, follow (3) and remove the shell plate and clean up. This is a real bear with a Dillon 1050, but I still do it.
5) One big advantage to the Hornady L-N-L is that the charged case is right under the reloader's nose, so there is no excuse NOT to inspect the case.
6) I found that, when batch loading on a single-stage press, using a loading tray to hold the charged cases didn't work well for me. I would charge the case, inspect it, and immediately seat the bullet. No way to miss one uncharged case out of 50-100 and no cases getting spilled if the tray was jogged/moved.
7) I worry about folks that have a bullet feeder and can't/don't inspect the charged cases before the bullet drops on the case.

This is all excellent advice.

The only thing I might add would be that when possible, try to select a powder that fills enough of the case so that you can't possibly miss a double charge.

As you found out, most problems occur not while you're cranking out ammo, but when you're setting up or fixing a malfunction - during those times, your mind is on fixing the problem rather than watching your ammo.

 

[ruebarb]

As new to reloading, I found a double charge in a malfunction, it had not hit the powder cop yet. It was very scary, though I ran it into my dillon powder cop and it identified it with no problem, beeped away, 8gr vs 4gr. As a rule, after inspection I just toss the current and the next charged case after the next cycle, the power measure may not throw correctly with the interruption. On the 1050, you are are the wrong side to see the charge on each case, Mr Bullet is seating each round, so I am depending on a clean process and the powder cop to catch any moment of stupidity.

 

[horsegoalie]

Thanks all for the thoughts, and I have learned a ton. As for the gun, worth bringing to a gunsmith or not? Im thinking as someone said above, that I could never trust it agaib. Thoughts???

 

[ruebarb]

Thanks all for the thoughts, and I have learned a ton. As for the gun, worth bringing to a gunsmith or not? Im thinking as someone said above, that I could never trust it agaib. Thoughts???

I would not use it, you would have bent and stressed the metal out of spec and this would not be visible, the integrity is unknown, consider it spare parts and 1300 is way cheaper than any surgery.

 

[Hoon]

Really, even if it costs me the 1911 completely, this is still a cheap lesson.

That's the best attitude to have. Considering how badly a double charge can go, you got away cheap!!

Personally i wouldn't bother trying to salvage the gun. The frame is bent, slide is likely bent, and i'm sure there is plenty of other damage to small parts. Probably quicker, easier, and likely cheaper to just replace it.

 

[dhuze]

If it was me, I'd probably break down all the remaining loads just in case. I missed one, I don't want to find out if I missed another. At least not by firing it. I'd also check the dispenser and make sure it is set to the right amount.

 

[horsegoalie]

Thanks for the advice. Guess its scrap now...

 

[horsegoalie]

If it was me, I'd probably break down all the remaining loads just in case. I missed one, I don't want to find out if I missed another. At least not by firing it. I'd also check the dispenser and make sure it is set to the right amount.

Absolutely, I'm in that process now, taking a break. I have been measuring each round as they get tgeir bullets removed, and haven't found one yet. Thevgood news is that powder I am dispensing per round appears pretty constant and just about right.

 

[tjr]

Wow glad to hear your OK sir.

 

[horsegoalie]

Wow glad to hear your OK sir.

Thanks. Learned a different lesson here as well. Indoors, I have a tendency to not wear safety glasses, and only do outdoors because my standard sunglasses are safety lenses for riding the Harley. I put them on this time, and man I'm glad I did. I will definitely have them on at all times, indoors and outdoors.

 

[richc]

I learned this here on NES. If there's a malfunction just stop. Re-evaluate where you are. Check the rounds. I check the round at the powder die station to see if there's powder in it. And at the bullet seating die. And I just finish those rounds IF I see what I expect. If not start over.

After a malfunction I always restart from an empty press. Start over. Clear the mind. And pay attention.

We all lead busy lives. My mind is always wandering. I have to focus to reload. No TV, no radio, no conversation. Be completely focused.

FYI I was shooting one day with Bob P here on NES. I had a squib load. Bob P was standing nearby and immediately yelled "STOP". Saved my bacon.

I got my mulligan that time. And learned a valuable lesson about focus in reloading...

Glad you're OK. A gun can be replaced...

 

[EddieZoom]

Just to be clear.... I have reloaded several thousand rounds without issue on the single stage press, but am definitely new to the progressive. This was my mistake, just thought I'd let others learn from my stupidity and get any recommendations from those with more experience than me....

Glad you're ok man. Thanks for sharing this. Brings the inherent risks with our hobby back into clear focus for all of us.

No way you should trust that gun for personal protection ever again.

Get right back on the horse..stay safe.

 

[jhrosier]

Thanks all for the thoughts, and I have learned a ton. As for the gun, worth bringing to a gunsmith or not? Im thinking as someone said above, that I could never trust it agaib. Thoughts???

Get in touch with S&W. Be up front WRT the cause of the problem and ask if they would evaluate and repair the gun.
They will be able to determine if it is practical to repair the gun and might even offer a discount on a new one if it cannot be safely repaired.

Jack

 

[M1911]

This is all excellent advice.

The only thing I might add would be that when possible, try to select a powder that fills enough of the case so that you can't possibly miss a double charge.

As you found out, most problems occur not while you're cranking out ammo, but when you're setting up or fixing a malfunction - during those times, your mind is on fixing the problem rather than watching your ammo.

Agree completely. One of the downsides of .38Spcl is that the cases can easily accommodate a double charge and the long, skinny cases are hard to see into.

If your press has enough stations for it (mine doesn't), a powder check die is a good idea.

 

[Steve Marshall]

Do not listen to #2 post. Brass can easily vary by more than the charge weight.

 

[SJan]

Good to hear no serious injury. Out of curiosity, what press are you using?

 

[NH-GP100]

The only thing I might add would be that when possible, try to select a powder that fills enough of the case so that you can't possibly miss a double charge.

There is no way I can ever give better advice than EddieCoyle on reloading stuff, but this bears repeating. If you select powders that will show a double charge easily you will increase the chances of catching one when it happens.

Agree completely. One of the downsides of .38Spcl is that the cases can easily accommodate a double charge and the long, skinny cases are hard to see into.

I reload primarily .38/.357, from mousefart CAS .38s through massive .357 flame belchers that can be a handful to control even in my GP-100. The 3 powders I use (TrailBoss, Alliant 2400 and Win296/H110) will *ALL* show a double charge very easily - by spilling powder all over.

I am aware of the fact that I don't get as many charges out of them by using these powders, but they do exactly what I want them to do, they will show a double charge every time, and I am of the "A Full Case is a Happy Case" crowd.

I am well aware of all the back-and-forth about whether or not a case with lots of airspace will be likely to have issues, belief or disbelief in "Flashover", issues or non-issues with primer-powder contact and all that. While I am not willing to take a stand on any of these it is my belief that the absolute minimum airspace in a case is the ideal airspace in a case.

"But dude, I can get 2 or 3 times as many charges out of ($FAVORITE_POWDER) than with those!"

Yep. Have at it, its you gun and your life - just do me a favor please - don't let anyone else shoot them (the best advice when dealing with handloads in any event).

And frankly the cost of powder compared to the availability and cost of new body parts make me err on the side of safety.

Good to hear no serious injury. Out of curiosity, what press are you using?

More importantly to me is "What powder?"

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Do not listen to #2 post. Brass can easily vary by more than the charge weight.

This. And has been said, look into every case . A double charge in a .45 ACP case is easy to spot. Jack.

 

[Hoon]

There is no way I can ever give better advice than EddieCoyle on reloading stuff, but this bears repeating. If you select powders that will show a double charge easily you will increase the chances of catching one when it happens.



I reload primarily .38/.357, from mousefart CAS .38s through massive .357 flame belchers that can be a handful to control even in my GP-100. The 3 powders I use (TrailBoss, Alliant 2400 and Win296/H110) will *ALL* show a double charge very easily - by spilling powder all over.

I am aware of the fact that I don't get as many charges out of them by using these powders, but they do exactly what I want them to do, they will show a double charge every time, and I am of the "A Full Case is a Happy Case" crowd.

I am well aware of all the back-and-forth about whether or not a case with lots of airspace will be likely to have issues, belief or disbelief in "Flashover", issues or non-issues with primer-powder contact and all that. While I am not willing to take a stand on any of these it is my belief that the absolute minimum airspace in a case is the ideal airspace in a case.

"But dude, I can get 2 or 3 times as many charges out of ($FAVORITE_POWDER) than with those!"

Yep. Have at it, its you gun and your life - just do me a favor please - don't let anyone else shoot them (the best advice when dealing with handloads in any event).

And frankly the cost of powder compared to the availability and cost of new body parts make me err on the side of safety.



More importantly to me is "What powder?"

The same logic easily applies to the higher octane powders... If you typically have a half full case and you have a full case, you know you made a mistake.

Yes, this requires you to actually look at each case, but that's not a bad idea anyway.