I'm thinking that in the event of a house fire it would be good to keep my ammo stored in a manner that would be less of a danger to firefighters. I know that some gun safes have ratings for certain temperatures for certain amounts time (i.e. 1200 degrees for 30 minutes). What ratings would be adequate for a normal size home? If a fire burns hotter or longer than the rating would a typical fire resistant gun safe contain any ammo that might go off. Does it make sense to break the ammo up and store it in multiple smaller lockable fireboxes? For quantity, I'm talking about a few thousand rounds of mix caliber, no black powder.
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firefighter friendly ammo storage?
- Thread starter Jason
- Start date
J
Jose
What do you think happens to ammo in a fire?
I may be mistaken; but I was under the impression that because the loose ammo is not chambered that there would be no breech pressure the round may detonate but in all directions more like a grenade. I believe that a Firefighters bunker gear (protective clothing) is hardy enough to protect the Firefighter from these mini detonations. A bullet is fired out of a firearm by rapidly expanding gasses that are trapped and direct the projectile.
J
Jose
You are partially correct. You are correct in that ammo not contained in a firearm's chamber will not develop near the same level of pressure. It's one of the properties of smokless powder that makes it a propellant, versus an explosive (which is what the DOT classified blackpowder as).
However, a loose cartridge that reaches ignition temp will not "grenade". The weakest part of it is the joing between bullet and case and that's what will go first. The bullet and the case will separate, each traveling a few feet from the other and the powder will burn with an intense yellow flame.
That's it.
For the OP, the movie BS about cartridges exploding and bullets flying off with enough velocity to ricochet off objects is pure fantasy. Leave your ammo in the boxes they came in. Store smokeless powder ONLY in their original containers or in a powder magazine designed for it. DO NOT store smokeless powder in any other way.
A small amount of ammo isn't that bad. A large amount well it will make me want to leave in a hurry. One of those mettle truck boxes will container it I'm sure but your best bet is to keep it in the basement in some sort of heavy duty container. A couple rds is scary but man hair spray bottles are loud and can goods boom and those small camp stove LP bottles make you think your going to piss your pants. Its all good for laughs over beers later.
Good idea on getting a safe. I think it would mitigate most of the danger for first responders.
Original poster here. I was going on the assumption that a round ignited from heat was much less dangerous than a chambered round and that Hollywood does exaggerate. What I don't know is if having several thousand rounds next to each other poses significantly more risk in a fire.
1.) You mean to tell me that people can actually come up with ideas to ensure safety around firearms and ammunition without a law being made to tell them to do so?
2.) Compression is not your friend. I would leave the safe for the guns and buy a cabinet for the ammo and powder. Something with vents.
2.) Compression is not your friend. I would leave the safe for the guns and buy a cabinet for the ammo and powder. Something with vents.
F
Finalygotabeltfed
Ever seen the contents of a burned out safe? The best of intentions using a safe to guard against fire do not always work. You may buy some time to get water on it, but it might be too late or never happen.
Ammo in a safe is a potential bomb. Nowhere in the NFPA does it specify or recommend a safe for storing ammo.
The more containment you put around ammo, the faster it would accelarate the burning process from a deflagration to a detonation.
Ammo should be stored in GI ammo cans or in a loosely nailed wooden boxes or in plain old cardboard if not long term storage.
Thats how its routinely shipped, stored in warehouses, factories and bunkers.
In a fire, I'm more concerned with where the propane grill tank is located and the gallon of olive oil in the kitchen cabinet.
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Over certain limits, I think its 10k in Mass, you should register with the Fire Department for a powder permit. I am confident someone will correct me on the actual permit and signage that are requisite with that permit.
However, for the most part the ammo is not as dangerous as you would believe it to be in a fire, and like anything you should take precautions with the manner in which you store it.
However, for the most part the ammo is not as dangerous as you would believe it to be in a fire, and like anything you should take precautions with the manner in which you store it.
breslau
NES Member
News story here about a house in Western Mass. that firefighters allowed to burn to the ground because of ammo going off.
pdm
NES Member
Hah! If I did that, my ammo would be underwater. Great for keeping it from burning, not so great for using it.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
The FD obviously heard something other than the ammo going off. You would have to be standing over it, practically.
Keep the ammo in a box. Like the one it came in. You friends at the FD should be far more concerned with the 5 gallon can o'gasoline that is far more likely to level your house than 100,000 rounds of ammo. They watch too much TV too.
Keep the ammo in a box. Like the one it came in. You friends at the FD should be far more concerned with the 5 gallon can o'gasoline that is far more likely to level your house than 100,000 rounds of ammo. They watch too much TV too.
"Ammo in a safe is a potential bomb. Nowhere in the NFPA does it specify or recommend a safe for storing ammo."
I'm in the process of shopping for a safe and was planning on using it for ammo storage as well. This is a BAD idea??
I'm in the process of shopping for a safe and was planning on using it for ammo storage as well. This is a BAD idea??
The ammo in the chamber of a firearm in a fire could go off due to the temperature and obviously have the same velocity as a fire round.
If you store the ammo in a fire lined locked container such as a fire lined file cabinet it should reduce the likely hood of the ammo cooking off and probably eliminate any scrapnel with the 2" of cermaic insulation.
These fire safes are made to keep paper from igniting and electronic data safe, should work for ammo as well.
If you store the ammo in a fire lined locked container such as a fire lined file cabinet it should reduce the likely hood of the ammo cooking off and probably eliminate any scrapnel with the 2" of cermaic insulation.
These fire safes are made to keep paper from igniting and electronic data safe, should work for ammo as well.
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F
Finalygotabeltfed
Yes, its a bad idea.
No gun shops keep their ammo in safes, nor does the military, the shipping companies, the distributors, the factories or anyone else in the supply chain, why do you feel you should or must? Crime prevention?
A locked container that will fail in a fire is what you want. Either ammo cans or a wooden box with a hasp and lock.
J
Jose
We have a winner.
namedpipes
NES Member
I use surplus ammo cans, and those are stored in a locked "job" box for security and tidiness.
You can store ammo on the shelf just like Walley world or everywhere else.
But they also store acetone, spray paint containers and other compressed and/or explosive gasses on the shelf as well.
Safer is a vented double walled vented container. These are used in factories and some auto body shops for paint and thinners. But most factories and stores have sprinklers as well to cool these containers during a fire.and automated fire alarms and call in systems
If you read some other forums or do a google search they talk about what happens if the ammo cooks off, some from personal experiance by throwing ammo in a camp fire.
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Really depends on what you think is safer:
insulating it from the fire and temperature and risking a build up of pressure if it does cook off or,
Allowing it to pop and having the possibility that parts of the exploding brass case will harm someone.
But comparing your house storage to stores is not the same. Stores have sprinklers and are inspected by insurance agents and the fire department every year.
But they also store acetone, spray paint containers and other compressed and/or explosive gasses on the shelf as well.
Safer is a vented double walled vented container. These are used in factories and some auto body shops for paint and thinners. But most factories and stores have sprinklers as well to cool these containers during a fire.and automated fire alarms and call in systems
If you read some other forums or do a google search they talk about what happens if the ammo cooks off, some from personal experiance by throwing ammo in a camp fire.
Really depends on what you think is safer:
insulating it from the fire and temperature and risking a build up of pressure if it does cook off or,
Allowing it to pop and having the possibility that parts of the exploding brass case will harm someone.
But comparing your house storage to stores is not the same. Stores have sprinklers and are inspected by insurance agents and the fire department every year.
+100 for the propane tanks people!!!! you second floor apartment dwellers... see the 20 LB bomb out on your porch!! .. i know its out there!!!!
I was told by an armorer at the base where i drill that the best defense for rounds cooking off is to NOT have them chambered. I know in at least one defense weapon this is impossible, but keeping the rounds out of safe weapons is a big help.
I was told by an armorer at the base where i drill that the best defense for rounds cooking off is to NOT have them chambered. I know in at least one defense weapon this is impossible, but keeping the rounds out of safe weapons is a big help.
ammo cook off
ammo pops when not confined.I know as I watched as a hang fir poped and ripped apart,droped at my wifes foot.The NRA did tests yrs ago.put rd in box set it of with arc,bullet never left the cardboard box.I have a mec 600 given because the one had it had 4lb of red dot in open can and cigarret dropped in they [4] lost their hair and some clothes and got blistered.the curtains on the windows burned.the press is like new.the powder burned in seconds.I keep mine in heavy card board boxes.dont talk about it get your info from a reliable source.The NRA. ![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
ammo pops when not confined.I know as I watched as a hang fir poped and ripped apart,droped at my wifes foot.The NRA did tests yrs ago.put rd in box set it of with arc,bullet never left the cardboard box.I have a mec 600 given because the one had it had 4lb of red dot in open can and cigarret dropped in they [4] lost their hair and some clothes and got blistered.the curtains on the windows burned.the press is like new.the powder burned in seconds.I keep mine in heavy card board boxes.dont talk about it get your info from a reliable source.The NRA.
No one seems to listen to me but I've repeated this story over and over.
EXPLODING AMMO CAN HURT YOU BADLY !!!!
Ask my son.
He was sitting at a campfire when someone threw some .22lr in the fire. One went off and hit him in the hand. It tore a large chunk of meat out of his finger, splintered the bone and he still has shrapnel in his hand.
He was putting a can of coke to his lips at the time he was hit. If his hand wasn't there to stop the round, he would have gotten it in the face...quite possibly the eye.
If it had hit him in the chest it might have killed him.
DON'T BELIEVE THE NAY SAYERS !!!!
namedpipes
NES Member
It just stands to reason that something that is designed to explode can be dangerous.
Common sense dictates you should store it in a way that minimizes the danger.
Go ahead and keep the ammo in the original box, but put those boxes in a GI ammo can and put THAT inside a chest that can slow shrapnel but not contain the POTENTIAL blast. Like wood or plastic bins.
Common sense dictates you should store it in a way that minimizes the danger.
Go ahead and keep the ammo in the original box, but put those boxes in a GI ammo can and put THAT inside a chest that can slow shrapnel but not contain the POTENTIAL blast. Like wood or plastic bins.
F
Finalygotabeltfed
I believe the original post Read: "firefighter friendly ammo storage"?
No one puts much credence in the situation because the likelyhood of being killed or severely injured by openly, or lightly contained small arms ammo in a fire is less than miniscule, particularly with firefighting gear on, which is what the OP was inquiring about.
The situation has been thoroughly investigated, tested and concluded that structural firefighting gear is more than effective protection against small arms ammunition cooking off in close proximity in a fire.
I've had a few 9mm go off in my fireplace when disposing of packaging and it was nothing more than the sound of a primer popping and nothing entered the room, not even ash. No big deal.
+1
GI ammo cans are designed to take the abuse being cooked in a fire and not let bullets and shrapnel out.
My ammo is also in GI surplus ammo cans. I also put the cans into old cardboard boxes to prevent scaring any potential libtard service people)
A number of good reasons here not to put ammo in a safe. Another one - safes (especially fireproof ones) are expensive!
I have two and that's still not enough room for all my guns, let alone ammo - and I'd venture to say my collection is far smaller than many of yours. If you have any reasonable amount of ammunition, that's going to take up a ton of room in your safe.
Don't waste your money on a $3000 fireproof safe to hold your ammo. Stick it in ammo cans, and stick the cans in some kind of locking cabinet, closet, etc. Old filing cabinets work well (and are discreet).
I have two and that's still not enough room for all my guns, let alone ammo - and I'd venture to say my collection is far smaller than many of yours. If you have any reasonable amount of ammunition, that's going to take up a ton of room in your safe.
Don't waste your money on a $3000 fireproof safe to hold your ammo. Stick it in ammo cans, and stick the cans in some kind of locking cabinet, closet, etc. Old filing cabinets work well (and are discreet).
